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Which superweapon from the EU do you consider the most redundant, ill-conceived, and overpowered out of universe?

Personally, I think it's a toss between the Sun Crusher and the Galaxy Gun. I think the star-destroying miniship could have at least played a good role in a good plot, but unfortunately it's saddled with the whole Kyp Durron thing, so... yeah. And it's too indestructible, anyways. The Galaxy Gun is stupid because it makes the Death Star looks like a bowling ball; so you can destroy any planet in the galaxy at will now? Talk about upstaging the films.

Darksaber was in a reputedly lousy novel, but the concept isn't too bad, since it actually does fail. So it is arguably worst in execution in universe, but as a story idea (some two-bit gangsters try to build a superweapon and die horribly) I think it's worth at least some merit. But they gave Crix Madine a bitch death, and for that alone the novel that contains it is stupid.

The superweapons list had a weapon that sent planets rocketing off through space to slam into other planets and knock them from their orbits, but they traveled at sublight and were therefore almost totally useless. Yeah, that oneshot comic weapon gets my vote for sillyness.

Overpowered and ill-conceived? Sun Crusher. Resonance Torpedoes should have been the size of a skyscraper and fitted to a ship like the Eclipse.

Well the Darksaber was a cheap knockoff of the Tarkin, which was a very good concept in theory but the Hutt superweapon gets special consideration for being cobbled together almost like a scaled up version of a kitbash.

The Galaxy Gun I liked as an idea, I just thought that the shells used were a little wankish, but other than that the idea is sound given the capability of SW hyperdrive and navigation.

My vote would have to go to the sun Crusher, pure crap. It's the size of a fighter that is tougher than a capital ship! The only thing surprising about it is that it was a KJA creation and not a Mike Stackpole creation, and if it were i'm sure it could have only been defeated by a squadron of X Wings.

Really, KJA hasn't written one Star Wars book targeted towards adults without a knockoff superweapon.

I think with Darksaber, which I selected, you have a couple problems that go beyond just execution.

1) You can't seperate the device from its execution. If you want to build an Eclipse-lite/ mini Death Star then we are already in the range of money is not an object so why scimp for shit parts on something which will be your prime money maker

1a) The last sentence reminds me of the fact that while criminals tend to be stupid those who are alive long enough to mamke money and live a decent life get that way by knowing how to spend money. Criminal enterprise is one of the most darwinian systems out there and I hate the "uber rich but incredibly stupid" crime lord cliche. Yes there are people who are stupid with money but they tend to be those who either have never had it or had it their entire life. The folks who work to amass their money might not always be the sharpest bunch but as a generalization including the non-criminal populace they tend to value a dollar but also understand when it needs to be spent.

1b)As a flip on the money point, if we aren't in the money isn't an object range then I have a REAL problem. If any two bit mid level criminal lord has the funding to build something like this then there should be dozens of superlaser pet projects going on. The technology isn't something unbelievably complex, its execution can be, but the tech itself is not. Again if this ischeap enough that the middle tier guy can afford to do it, albeit on the cheap, then the millions of residentsof the galaxy who are far richer should be producing a rather semi-steady stream of illicit/pet superlaser/ mini Death Star projects.

2) Where they built it makes it even worse: Why build in the middle of an asteroid field where any problems with systems during your outfitting flight could cause serious and immediate problems?

3) Repetition makes the thing tired as a superweapon. Now this is mostly just from an out of world perspective but Darksaber is something like the 4th or 5th superlaser platform that is threatening the Rebellion/Republic with Imminent Doom (TM). I mean you have DS1, DS2, DS Prototype, and Eclipse 2. Building another superweapon based on the Death Star concept is just tried by that point.

I wish the polls has the ability to make more than one selection in a way other than having an "all of the above" choice. For me its a toss up between the Sun Crusher, Darksaber and maybe one other. But since I only get one pick, I'll go with Sun Crusher. Its just too

I'm going to go with Darksaber. Wanked as it is the Suncrusher does have one thing going for it. It DOES WORK. The Darksaber DOES NOT.

As far as superweapons go nothing is as bad as the stupidity of the Darksaber from start to finish.

CmdrWilkens wrote: Again if this ischeap enough that the middle tier guy can afford to do it, albeit on the cheap, then the millions of residentsof the galaxy who are far richer should be producing a rather semi-steady stream of illicit/pet superlaser/ mini Death Star projects.

Durga had a few advantages not enjoyed by others who might attempt to do this. He had a cheap and enromous supply of labor in the Taurill, which didn't cost him very much albeit they weren't exactly adept at the caliber of construction necessary. Still it was cheap labor that probably lowered the price tag so dramatically that it's what made the Darksaber affordable more than anything else.

He also had Bevel Lemelisk and a copy of the original Death Star Plans. So there was very little in the way of Research and Development needed.

any two bit mid level criminal lord has the funding to build something like this then there should be dozens of superlaser pet projects going on

Durga was the most powerful Hutt at the time wasn't he? That would mean he had the resources of thousands of planets at his command to finance him or at least whatever share his role as clan leader affords him.

The technology isn't something unbelievably complex, its execution can be, but the tech itself is not

As Fanboy said he had to steal the original plans from the Republic despite having access to one of the key engineers. That would suggest that the tech is too advanced to just build it yourself without access to the schematics and design notes of the research projects of the Empire and the CIS.

I went with the Sun Crusher, as the idea of giving the power to destroy several dozen star system as well as magical invulnerability and magic non stoppable acceleration to a couple of guys is practically the most stupid decision in sci fi history.

a weapon that sent planets rocketing off through space to slam into other planets

How is this weapon deployed? It might be silly for its goal of destroying planets in multiple star systems but for destroying a single star systems inner planets over the space of a few years or so its not that bad an idea. Or just ramming someones moon into their planet like the Vong for more immediate results.

The Sun Crusher. It's uber fan-wanking. It's so powerful that it can fly through the bridge tower of a Star Destroyer and come out the other side unscathed. It survived months inside the core of the Yavin gas giant and came out perfectly intact.
It looks like a fucking ice cream cone, at least according to the illustrations in the Essential Guide to Vehicles and Vessels.
It's a supernova weapon, which is just dumb sci-fi chic, like organic starships and weapons.

Worst of all, it uses the word quantum to describe its technology, just like Star Trek: TNG. The Sun Crusher had Quantum Resonance Torpedos and Quantum Armor.

Suncrusher. Maybe the torpedoes can be almost decent with that technology level, but his uberarmour is a bit ridicolous.

Despite me giving this "award" to the Sun Crusher, the only reason it might be acceptable in the SW universe is that it's so über, it costs too much to be completely effective as a weapon. It's got that wank-armor, which I'm sure would cost a ton, and only a limited supply of wank-torpedoes. If all that cost something similar to the Death Stars, it might explain all its amazing feats, but also why it would never really catch on or be mass-produced, if it's too costly and demanding of resources to make at that compact size.

The Shawken Device is ludicrous and unworkable in-universe, so I have no problem with that. :P

Darth Tanner wrote:

any two bit mid level criminal lord has the funding to build something like this then there should be dozens of superlaser pet projects going on

Durga was the most powerful Hutt at the time wasn't he? That would mean he had the resources of thousands of planets at his command to finance him or at least whatever share his role as clan leader affords him.

Which then goes more to point 1a that I made. I wasn't trying to automatically insist that it is cheap to build a Superlaser based superweapon my point was there are only two scenarios:

1) Durga is obscenely rich and yet has no concept of how to spend his money (thus fals into the "uber rich but stupid crime lord" cliche

OR

2) Durga is in the middle of the pack in terms of wealth which means everyone should be trying to build these projects.

I think my problem is that anyone who has worked and fought to get to the top of the heap (or close enough to the top of the heap) doesn't do so because they are unwilling to spend money. They understand, and are usually impressed with, thecost of truly reliable technology. Durga is far to cliche in how he goes about building it for my taste.

Wow. The Sun Crusher is really running away with this, but is it really stupid? I mean, it is about indestructible and it's weapon is devastating. I get that it is probably the most wanked thing the EU has ever created, but as far as being an effective weapon in the SW universe, it's gotta be right up there with the DS.

havokeff wrote:Wow. The Sun Crusher is really running away with this, but is it really stupid? I mean, it is about indestructible and it's weapon is devastating. I get that it is probably the most wanked thing the EU has ever created, but as far as being an effective weapon in the SW universe, it's gotta be right up there with the DS.

Well, the OP did specify out of universe. And frankly, in terms of firepower, we have far more power than the Death Star compressed into the size of a starfighter. The OP mentioned overpowered, and I doubt you will find much more overpowered than that.

havokeff wrote:Wow. The Sun Crusher is really running away with this, but is it really stupid? I mean, it is about indestructible and it's weapon is devastating. I get that it is probably the most wanked thing the EU has ever created, but as far as being an effective weapon in the SW universe, it's gotta be right up there with the DS.

It's the stupidest thing the EU has come up with because of this bullshit indestructibility, and this wanked out superweapon. I mean, come one -- chain reaction that makes a star blow up? What bullshit.

But even in-universe, it's worthless as anything other than a terrorist weapon because it lacks strategic flexibility. The Death Stars not only could blow up planets, they could occupy whole star systems and fight off fleets of starships. However, the only thing the Sun Crusher can do is destroy star systems, which means that in a war, it's useless for attaining strategically important ground.

havokeff wrote:Wow. The Sun Crusher is really running away with this, but is it really stupid? I mean, it is about indestructible and it's weapon is devastating. I get that it is probably the most wanked thing the EU has ever created, but as far as being an effective weapon in the SW universe, it's gotta be right up there with the DS.

The best guess which I can offer you is that the sheer outright devastation which this tiny thing could produce all comes from a one-man fighter sized craft which is not only capable of shrugging off glancing blows from superlaser cannons, but also of making the Death Star's firepower seem obsolete.

The Death Star, OTOH, possesse technical cabilities which can elevate an ordinary man to a position of a god with the mere push of a button. Everyone is in awe of it. But still, no matter how powerful its shown to be, its vast size impresses you right off the bat so that when you see it blow up Alderaan you're not only in awe of its destructive capability, but you also willingly believe it.

It's that whole scale of appearance which makes the Sun Crusher so unbelievable to basic human intuition. It appears to be small, but it makes the DS look like child's play. Beyond that, the explanation for how the DS destroys planets involves pure energy and raw firepower--something very understandable to human thinking--a huge stick. The Sun Crusher's torpedoes do their stuff with some kind of wierd chain reaction which has never been explained in the literature to my knowledge.

wjs7744 wrote:

havokeff wrote:Wow. The Sun Crusher is really running away with this, but is it really stupid? I mean, it is about indestructible and it's weapon is devastating. I get that it is probably the most wanked thing the EU has ever created, but as far as being an effective weapon in the SW universe, it's gotta be right up there with the DS.

Well, the OP did specify out of universe. And frankly, in terms of firepower, we have far more power than the Death Star compressed into the size of a starfighter. The OP mentioned overpowered, and I doubt you will find much more overpowered than that.

Bolded by me to emphasis it...for me.

Damn. I totally missed that.

That one weapon that those nihilists made, it would've taking billions of years to kill everything IIRC. I can't remember the name of it at this time, but it was in the special Star Wars.com did on Superweapons.

General Schatten wrote:That one weapon that those nihilists made, it would've taking billions of years to kill everything IIRC. I can't remember the name of it at this time, but it was in the special Star Wars.com did on Superweapons.

The Shawken Device
And it would have been rather useless, since everyone could out-evolve it anyway

I don't quite have a probelmw ith the Sun Crusher. Sure, its absurdly powerfu and obviously a wanked out weapon of the likes you'd find in very lousy SW fanfic (Its very powerful, its virtually indestructible, it can travel through hyperspace, and destroy entire stars!) but there is a certain sort of logic to it (inasmuch as logic can be applied to technobabble, wanked out supernova weapons.) and the scale is only a problem if it were deliberately brute force (the same way the Eclipse is absurd if it really had 1/8 or 2/3 the power of the DS superlaser.)

Most of the truly absurd or retarded superweapons come from the comics, The really old ones (like the billion-year billiard ball doomsday weapon)

If you want something worse, I hereby submit the Omega Frost which was to destroy the Alliance fleet. By freezing it. In space. With icicles.

The really sad part was the retcon into the Metal Crystal PHase Shifter (Which was from the KJA Jedi Academy novels, and was much worse than the Sun Crusher - I dont even see how those two weapons as described were even remotely related, since the MCPS was designed ot technobabble weaken/disrupt materials and make them fall apart, not freeze them.)

What tends to irk me (though not as much as Omega Frost) are all the plethora of Jedi/Sith magic "force oriented" doomsday weapons that proliferate. Compared to those the Sun Crusher is downright sensible.

The World Devestators.

I hate Dark Empire at any rate, but the idea of these mobile factories which build themselves is just absurd, let alone the idea that they can take on *dedicated combat warships* and just ignore them! I mean the thing is a glorified FACTORY, not an SSD! The vast majority of its internal space is dedicated to the technology that sucks up stuff from other ships or the ground or whatever, as well as the production centers they build things.

Even ISD sized ships can hit an SSD hard enough to at least *slightly* damage it, the idea that all these heavy Mon Cals, including one that dueled with an SSD later and lived to tell the tail, albeit with heavy damage, just couldn't scratch the things is just absurd.

Now the concept *itself* I didn't mind at all as a system to point at uninhabited but resource rich worlds and watch as a year later a fleet is ready to launch from the orbital shipyards they built, but as a 'superweapon'? The wank is strong with this one...

Chris OFarrell wrote:The World Devestators.

I hate Dark Empire at any rate, but the idea of these mobile factories which build themselves is just absurd, let alone the idea that they can take on *dedicated combat warships* and just ignore them! I mean the thing is a glorified FACTORY, not an SSD! The vast majority of its internal space is dedicated to the technology that sucks up stuff from other ships or the ground or whatever, as well as the production centers they build things.

Even ISD sized ships can hit an SSD hard enough to at least *slightly* damage it, the idea that all these heavy Mon Cals, including one that dueled with an SSD later and lived to tell the tail, albeit with heavy damage, just couldn't scratch the things is just absurd.

Now the concept *itself* I didn't mind at all as a system to point at uninhabited but resource rich worlds and watch as a year later a fleet is ready to launch from the orbital shipyards they built, but as a 'superweapon'? The wank is strong with this one...

One thing about Dark Empire was that it seems as if shielding was wanked out. We keep hearing of stuff with shields that were impenetrable.

VT-16 wrote:Despite me giving this "award" to the Sun Crusher, the only reason it might be acceptable in the SW universe is that it's so über, it costs too much to be completely effective as a weapon. It's got that wank-armor, which I'm sure would cost a ton, and only a limited supply of wank-torpedoes. If all that cost something similar to the Death Stars, it might explain all its amazing feats, but also why it would never really catch on or be mass-produced, if it's too costly and demanding of resources to make at that compact size.

The Shawken Device is ludicrous and unworkable in-universe, so I have no problem with that.

It's stated in one of the relevant novels that each of the torpedoes, and the armor, etc. did cost as much as the DS to research and manufacture.

Exactly. That's why spending money on a potentially dangerous runaway project (one person can pilot the whole thing), that's very limited in its practical use (the Death Stars, World Devastators and Galaxy Gun all had more practical uses and were able to adapt to different mission requirements), is just not a good strategy. Thus we see very little of this elsewhere in SW.

There's also another case of "too much resources being used for too compact designs" with the Nebula-class Star Destroyer. It's said to be able to best any Star Destroyer previously built, and even take on some of the SSDs (not exactly win outright, but at least give them a run for the money), though it's not stated what kind of SSD it would go up against, could be a smaller type. Either way, it was produced in very limited numbers due to being so expensive and time-consuming to make, and only kept in fleets near the Core Worlds.