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Recently, me and 2 other friends where in class (it was the last day of the semester, so we had nothing to do) playing Battlefront II on one of our PSPs.

One of my friends really likes the KOTOR era of SW, and was talking about some mod for EaW that lets you use KOTOR units. Well then, he gets on about Darth Revan (his favorite SW character) and my other friend asks "Who's Revan?"

This prompts my friend to say "Ok, Imagine Anakin Skywalker, Palpatine and Yoda all mixed into one, and he can kick anybodies ass."

This led to me getting into an argument with him as to why he though Revan was the shit.

I have also heard Revan being described as the shit on other sites and in other places.

My question is, Why? Sure he is a genuis, and he is strong, but just what prompts him to be described as "THE BEST SITH EVAH!!!"

Player character syndrome. Same with Halo's Master Chief, or Freespace 2's Alpha 1. I'm not quite sure what causes it.

Alan Bolte wrote:Player character syndrome. Same with Halo's Master Chief, or Freespace 2's Alpha 1. I'm not quite sure what causes it.

So I can just write it off as people investing way too much in their character?

Didn't Revan's character, according to the KOTOR II storyline, turn out to be a female?

It depended on your responses early on.

Canonically, Revan was male. The Jedi Exile in KoTOR II was a female, according to the cannon. And the Revan-fanaticism isn't entirely Player Character Syndrome. A lot of his past is revealed by Kreia in KoTOR II, he was made out to be pretty much the absolute king of all that is awesome.

SilverWingedSeraph wrote:Canonically, Revan was male. The Jedi Exile in KoTOR II was a female, according to the cannon. And the Revan-fanaticism isn't entirely Player Character Syndrome. A lot of his past is revealed by Kreia in KoTOR II, he was made out to be pretty much the absolute king of all that is awesome.

I have formulated a hypothesis concerning Revan and Kreia's admiring speeches of him: she was, for the lack of better definition or term, admirer of him or even was infatuated with him. He was her star pupil, the best of the best; he was the charismatic leader of the Mandalorian Wars, who denied the will of the Council (with whom Kreia didn't apparently get along well) and then turned against the Republic to ensure that the galaxy would be strong against some unknown threat (something which Kreia, with her twisted sense of moral and ethcis would find pleasing - after all, she continually preached "salvation through strength"). After Revan, it all went downhill for Kreia and apparently she also found Darth Sion to be less than adequate apprentice (and whether she feared him or not, Darth Nihilus also seemed to fall short of her standards in that he couldn't control his hunger as much as the hunger controlled him). When the player character meets Kreia, she is a broken, old woman, cast down from position of power and strength, stripped of her merits and skills, nothing more than an echo, a shadow barely alive. She very much lives through the Exile in the manner as a parent might live through his or her children if she or he is disappointed with his or her life. No wonder Kreia would speak so well of Revan.

Another problem with Revan is that he is more active Force-user in the games than the others appear to be. The game had to give him all sorts of Force gimmicks and powers, active at will and quickly replenished, to make the game enjoyable and "Jedi-like", if I may use the term so lightly. On the other hand, the Force-users in the movies often use more subtle forms of the Force (Anakin Skywalker's jumping feat in AotC IS subtle, since it doesn't involve flashes of light, huge bodies of matter lifted etc.; and so on) and both Yoda and Palpatine are actually renowned for their farseeing abilities. A potential fan would have to go through many a book, comic, movie and even cartoon to learn the full extend of the movie characters' powers; Revan has all those fancy Force abilities and flashy attacks available in only one source, thus they are easier to witness. Laziness of the mind, a terrible adversary indeed.

Mlenk wrote:Didn't Revan's character, according to the KOTOR II storyline, turn out to be a female?

Light side male is canon though you can select his gender and allianment in KOTOR 2

EDIT:part of the flashy lights as such can dissmissed as part of the UI or as something only Jedi can see.

to add to what Tiriol said, we don't hear about Revan in any acceptble detail from an impartial source (and no SW droids aren't impartial at least not the ones like HK-47).

Also we never see or hear what Revan is weak in (in terms for Force use), though Revan is never seen or heard to be able to fortell the future in the extent Yoda or Sidious were able for example.

I think Tiriol hit it pretty well on the head. Revan is only called upon in the game to be a combat-oriented asskicker, and so we only see that side of him really. After all, Revan may have ended the Mandalorians (Maybe he'll come back from the grave to save us from the KT Mandowank in LotF?), but Sidious ended the Republic. There's really no way to reconcile Revan being terribly more powerful than any of the three Jedi named, although it seems certain he must have been one of the most influential, if not necessarily most powerful, Force-users in the SW universe.

Even from dialogue, all I heard about Revan is the Force is strong with him, and he is a brilliant tactician.

Well, a brilliant tactician is one thing, but the Force being strong with him translates into battle ability how? Hell, his Force ability may have just been his ability to be a tactician and nothing more. Most of what he does is game mechanics, and I never heard anywhere that he was a master superb-ZOMG swordsman.

So, he is just talked up alot and the players just also hype him up?

And Tiriol, that is some good hypothesis.

"Revan was power. Staring into his eyes was like staring into the heart of the Force. Even then, you could see the Jedi he would slay etched on his soul."
―Kreia

Even if you take her statements with a large grain of salt, she is not the only force-user to comment that Revan was unusually strong. In fact some dialog in Kotor 2 mentions him as the strongest, in a time of strong Jedi. But again Kreia observes that even then, the Jedi of that time were like children to the Jedi of times long past.

Take that with a giant grain of salt it still points to one thing. Revan was power, VERY powerful by the standards of the time. The Jedi who have been hardened by war, hardened by years of fighting and still Revan was considered the top dog.

Mr Bean wrote:"Revan was power. Staring into his eyes was like staring into the heart of the Force. Even then, you could see the Jedi he would slay etched on his soul."
―Kreia

Even if you take her statements with a large grain of salt, she is not the only force-user to comment that Revan was unusually strong. In fact some dialog in Kotor 2 mentions him as the strongest, in a time of strong Jedi. But again Kreia observes that even then, the Jedi of that time were like children to the Jedi of times long past.

Take that with a giant grain of salt it still points to one thing. Revan was power, VERY powerful by the standards of the time. The Jedi who have been hardened by war, hardened by years of fighting and still Revan was considered the top dog.

I see, but the thing I am trying to say is (forgive if you already explained it, since I dont see it yet) is that power physical or is he powerful in the sense that he was able to ally thousands of people and jedi to him?

Its like that story Jolee tells you, where there was a Jedi who was powerful in the Force, and it ends up that he is powerful in the force because when the falls down a shaft into a ships engine, his death stops some big civil war that was going on.

It is fairly obvious Revan will be one of the 'top' dogs when the story centres around him and the player personnality reflects Revan's. Supposedly he is a brilliant combat leader with the ability to break the Mandalorians with his entry to the war but that dosent really say much about his own power at all.
According to Carth the Mandalorians fought the Republic because they wanted a challenge and KNEW the Republic had the greater resources. If he was going around blowing up ships with a wave of his hand then sure, but the basic drift I got from KOTOR was Revan's 'victory' involved a lot of brutal strategies in a situation where the Mandalorians were already outgunned and were fighting a poorly mobilised Republic defence.

After this he gets access to the Starforge and goes on his rampage against the Republic but his power is far from absolute. Afterall, Bastila was able to match him and apparantly able to make it much harder for Revan's forces to win. It was during a battle that Revan got blindsided by Malak which basically means Revan is far from invulnerable or all powerful in the force / strategy if Bastila can out manuver him.

Hence, I would conclude Revan is definetly a powerful character but the majority of that 'power' comes from the ability to 'break' from the standard viewpoint of the Light vs. Dark. The Jedi chose to sit on their asses and do fuck all so Revan shines as being powerful cause he literally breaks the Mandalorian invasion. The Jedi Masters could have done the same if they were to 'throw in' like Revan did.
My own opinion would be that Revan is powerful because he seems to hit objectives regardless of morality or 'codes'. The Jedi and Sith are all hung up on doing things a certain way in isolation that it makes them slow and socially inept but apparantly Revan follows his own code ( In the case of the game it would be the moral / ethics of the player) and is actually SEEN to be using the Force to effect change which your average person sees as a sign of power both in universe and out.
For those who are more observant though you would notice the toll such a loss in morality / ethics takes with Revan going off with 'noble' intentions and using brutal tactics against the Mandalorians coming back to bite the Republic in the ass with Revan's invasion.

That said, the reason why Revan did what he did were never clarified as far as I know. He was supposed to be destroying the Republic against some 'new threat' and I got the impression it was the Yuuzhan Vong but that dosent make much sense. You dont need the Republic destroyed to beat th YV and it took them a further 4,000 years to eventually get to the galaxy so maybe it is something else. Still, depending on how you look at it and how you played Revan the overall judgement could be that Revan followed his own moral code with less hang ups against using his power which gave him a defined advantage over everyone else. Not that he was particularily the best Force user ever just he used what he had very well.

Yoda is canonically the 'fircest, most implacable, most devastatingly powerful foe the darkness has ever known' consequently, the light side Revan, at least, must be less 'devastatingly powerful' than Yoda.

I think the overall point is that Revan isnt anything too special but is made special because of the scope of his activities. Jedi Masters tend to sit and 'meditate' about actions to the point of inaction but when they do act it usually ends up being highly effective.

Revan on the other hand was more brash and essentially told the Council to go fuck themselves and fight. So basically Revan accomplished a 'victory' which makes him look powerful AND the hero over the other Jedi who sat back and did nothing.
However, Revan then does a 180, comes back and starts attacking the Republic because of whatever unknown reason. This is EXACTLY what the Jedi who didnt want to act anticipated might happen and why they wanted to act carefully thus the situation is you have Revan using his power to effect change NOW at the expense of the future while the others do the opposite.

If anything I am reminded of TPM where Qui Gon focuses more on the 'living force' while Obi Wan and Yoda apparantly more interested in the 'future force'. Darth Maul was supposedly a prime example of someone who focuses on the 'living force' like Revan and thus the eventual downfall of Maul isnt far off from how Revan almost got killed by Bastila / Malak.

PREDATOR490: Revan was trying to prepare the Republic for the "True Sith Empire" IIRC.

I generally just phase out when I'm going through the long dialogue scenes with this kind of airy fairy crap. 'True Sith Empire' as in return of the Raakta people, the YV or what ?

All I seem to recall from either game is that both of them had Revan and later the Exile disappearing to 'somewhere' outside the galaxy or something.

PREDATOR490 wrote:After this he gets access to the Starforge and goes on his rampage against the Republic but his power is far from absolute. Afterall, Bastila was able to match him and apparantly able to make it much harder for Revan's forces to win. It was during a battle that Revan got blindsided by Malak which basically means Revan is far from invulnerable or all powerful in the force / strategy if Bastila can out manuver him.

Bastilla did no such thing and would've been carved up like a Thanksgiving Day turkeyhad Malak not take that time to shoot his master in the back.

Since it never appears again, I'm willing to write it up as an excuse for Kreia in Revan anticlimactically exiling himself and alternatively a bunch of "fear the Bolshevist hordes!" fearmongering rhetoric.

PREDATOR490 wrote:I generally just phase out when I'm going through the long dialogue scenes with this kind of airy fairy crap. 'True Sith Empire' as in return of the Raakta people, the YV or what ?

All I seem to recall from either game is that both of them had Revan and later the Exile disappearing to 'somewhere' outside the galaxy or something.

I dont think the Rakata and the YV are Sith.

Im thinking either These guys or The Old Sith Empire

Its neither; the Sith Empire was dismembered and the "True Sith" article on Wookiee cites quotes proving they are not the same.

Revan's purpose for attacking the Republic was to conquer it, put it under his own flag to face the coming storm. It's noted that Revan left worlds un-touched for the most part, limting himself to hitting defenses and fleets while leaving production facilities alone, and attempting to co-opt defenses whenever possible, even if he had the physical power to smash his way in easily.

OAN:We don't know how the Bastilla fight would have went, they never faced each other in actual combat and Revan had just turned to fight her when he was betrayed.
Per game stats Revan would hace carved her in half in a single round, but we don't use game stats do we?

General Schatten wrote:

PREDATOR490 wrote:After this he gets access to the Starforge and goes on his rampage against the Republic but his power is far from absolute. Afterall, Bastila was able to match him and apparantly able to make it much harder for Revan's forces to win. It was during a battle that Revan got blindsided by Malak which basically means Revan is far from invulnerable or all powerful in the force / strategy if Bastila can out manuver him.

Bastilla did no such thing and would've been carved up like a Thanksgiving Day turkeyhad Malak not take that time to shoot his master in the back.

Bastilla was directly attributed to being the sole thing standing between defeat for the Republic. Her supposed 'battle meditation' super skill gave the fleets greater combat abilty or something. That strikes me as being fairly conclusive that Bastilla's skill made her a match for Revan in strategy which is supposedly one of the things Revan is most known for.
As for actual one - on - one that remains entirely unconclusive given it rest entirely on game mechanics of the final fights which are rather different circumstances to the fight they would have had.
All you can say is Revan won against Bastilla but how EASY it was or the power difference would rely entirely on the skills / feats / powers you choose which may or may not have been the same as what Darth Revan or Bastilla had then.

As for outmanuvering him, the fact of the matter is her 'strike team' got onto Revan's ship somehow and either that means an ongoing battle like the start of Episode III or they caught the ship when it wasnt prepared. In either case Revan was outmanuvered by Bastilla's actions to the point Malak attack and would have killed Revan had Bastilla not saved him.

Revan wankers are annoying.

Bla bla bla vogue unquantifiable HE WAS A SEA OF POWERR bla bla bla more vogue shit.

This is all they have to say. Going by actual deeds Revan was a somewhat successful warlord. Nothing he did comes even close to what movie era Sith Lords could do. Hell I would argue he sucked in lightsaber combat and was a general type guy. The only time we saw him use a lightsaber he did a twirly dance and then got shot in the back. If it were not a serious scene Revan's demise would been comical.

Don't get me wrong I love KoToR but the Revan's succesors were a lot better than their predecessors.

FYI:He got a back full of shrapnel which is why he went down
Also according to Bastilla in game, her strike team got aboard his ship in the middle of a space-battle.

We don't have anything serious about Revean, we know he was a Knight when he left for the wars. We know he took the title of a Sith Lord after he got back(Which means he was at least Master level) but aside from that? We got nothing.