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Everybody remember back when Vader uttered the famous line:

Luke, I am your father!

Supposedly the line uttered on set was actually:

Obi-Wan killed your father

While it doesn't flow quite as well this line seems to make more sense based on what we learned from the battle on Mustifar.
It also flows better with Obi-wans famous point of view speech

Your father was seduced by the dark side of
the Force. He ceased to be Anakin Skywalker
and became Darth Vader. When that happened,
the good man who was your father was
destroyed. So what I have told you was
true... from a certain point of view.

If the conflicting view points are Vader claiming that Obi-Wan killed Anakin and Obi-Wan claiming Vader killed Anakin then the above seems to make more sense.
Rather than Obi-Wan's view point being that Anakin was already dead when he chopped him into pieces on Mustifar it becomes a battle of shifting viewpoints on just who was responsible for the fall of Anakin Skywalker.
Comments, thoughts, ideas?
BTW Anybody know just how Vader learned Luke was his son?

IIRC vader spent quite some time tracking down the rebel who destroyed the Death Star. Once he found out that it was his son, he stepped up the search even more.

JGregory32 wrote:BTW Anybody know just how Vader learned Luke was his son?

Rebel propaganda and prisoners telling him about the Hero of the Rebellion.

JGregory32 wrote:Supposedly the line uttered on set was actually:

Obi-Wan killed your father

That was the line said on set, but only for security purposes (the same reason that entire scene was also "missing" from the film's complete shooting script), mainly because David Prowse couldn't keep his damn mouth shut to the press.

Uh didn't Vader say :

No; I am your Father!

Not

Luke I am your Father!

Chris is right the correct line is:

Vader wrote:No. I am your father.

I stand corrected

General Schatten wrote:Rebel propaganda and prisoners telling him about the Hero of the Rebellion.

So Vader, on the basis of secondhand propaganda decides that Luke MUST be his son when hes known for 19 years that his wife and child were dead.
You would think that he might want to do a paternity test first.

JGregory32 wrote:

General Schatten wrote:Rebel propaganda and prisoners telling him about the Hero of the Rebellion.

So Vader, on the basis of secondhand propaganda decides that Luke MUST be his son when hes known for 19 years that his wife and child were dead.
You would think that he might want to do a paternity test first.

That's what he was trying to find out, all he knew at the time was that he had the surname Skywalker and was strong in the force, that's going to send up big signals to a Sith Lord whose former alias was also Skywalker.

JGregory32 wrote:

General Schatten wrote:Rebel propaganda and prisoners telling him about the Hero of the Rebellion.

So Vader, on the basis of secondhand propaganda decides that Luke MUST be his son when hes known for 19 years that his wife and child were dead.
You would think that he might want to do a paternity test first.

What the fuck?

Palpatine told him that Luke was the son of Skywalker, and then told him to search his feelings, he knows it to be true.

Vader was already aware long before he had that particular chat with Palpatine.

JGregory32

I'm not sure what you are trying to get at.
Ben, in ANH says: "A young Jedi named Darth Vader, who was a pupil of mine until he turned to evil, helped the Empire hunt down and destroy the Jedi Knights. He betrayed and murdered your father."

While that isn't technically accurate, it is in line with what actually happened. Yoda says the same thing that Obi-Wan says in ROTJ, that Anakin was consumed by the Dark Side, by Vader, and that Anakin ceased to be, that that persona essentially died.

"Obi-Wan killed your father" makes little sense ESPECIALLY now that we know what happened on Mustafar, and in ROTS, where Obi-Wan did everything he could to NOT kill Anakin/Vader, even pleading to go after Palpatine in stead.

Plus, even though it wasn't what Prowse said on the set, where does that leave "Together we can rule the galaxy as father and son!"? "Together we can rule the galaxy as two guys with the same last name!"

And why add the complication of Vader's new view point that Obi-Wan killed him. The way it is, Vader and Obi-Wan would probably agree.

Darth Ruinus wrote:

JGregory32 wrote:

General Schatten wrote:Rebel propaganda and prisoners telling him about the Hero of the Rebellion.

So Vader, on the basis of secondhand propaganda decides that Luke MUST be his son when hes known for 19 years that his wife and child were dead.
You would think that he might want to do a paternity test first.

What the fuck?

Palpatine told him that Luke was the son of Skywalker, and then told him to search his feelings, he knows it to be true.

Partly correct: some time after Yavin, some bounty hunters in service of Vader caught a Rebel pilot who served on Yavin IV at the time of the battle and forced him to reveal the name of the destroyer of the Death Star. Hearing the name Skywalker from the bounty hunters, Vader linked this with the power sensed in that pilot and deduced, and, in order of keep secret the info, ordered the death of the bounty hunters. One of them, an elf-like woman who called herself Mala Mala, managed to survive and revealed the identity of the pilot to Palpatine, who also deduced his identity as Anakin Skywalker's son.
See Vader's Quest for more info.

havokeff wrote: "Obi-Wan killed your father" makes little sense ESPECIALLY now that we know what happened on Mustafar, and in ROTS, where Obi-Wan did everything he could to NOT kill Anakin/Vader, even pleading to go after Palpatine in stead.

I'm willing to write that one off to Anakin/Vader's interpretation of things. Since Anakin was very good at blaming others for everything. He was doing a lot of that during ROTS and the hatred he showed toward Obi-Wan at the end of their battle very well could have been the tipping point to where there is nothing but the Sith lord Darth Vader left.

I would argue though that it wasn't until after he finds out that Padme is dead that he really fully becomes Vader so I'm more inclined to go with Obi-Wan on this that Anakin was destroyed by Vader. Obi helped him a long a bit but Vader deserves his props.

Well part of the Rebel propaganda about Luke was that he was carrying around his Father's lightsaber. If Vader had any doubts that Luke might be his son they would have been clinched perminatally the moment Luke fired up the Lightsaber of Anakin Skywalker.

Plus didn't Vadar get a good look at him on the Death Star WITH Ben Kenobi?

I wouldn't be surprised if the Death Star transmitted those images to the Emperor and Vadar looked them over...

Invictus ChiKen wrote:Plus didn't Vadar get a good look at him on the Death Star WITH Ben Kenobi?

I wouldn't be surprised if the Death Star transmitted those images to the Emperor and Vadar looked them over...

And did what with them? Anakin and Luke look nothing alike. For all he knew Han could have been his kid.

lord Martiya wrote:Partly correct: some time after Yavin, some bounty hunters in service of Vader caught a Rebel pilot who served on Yavin IV at the time of the battle and forced him to reveal the name of the destroyer of the Death Star. Hearing the name Skywalker from the bounty hunters, Vader linked this with the power sensed in that pilot and deduced, and, in order of keep secret the info, ordered the death of the bounty hunters. One of them, an elf-like woman who called herself Mala Mala, managed to survive and revealed the identity of the pilot to Palpatine, who also deduced his identity as Anakin Skywalker's son.
See Vader's Quest for more info.

That was supposedly one month after Yavin. But on the other hand, that conflicts with Darth Vader Strikes from Classic Star Wars, where Vader doesn't know the Force-sensitive Yavin hero's identity.

Okay so Vader learns that Padme gave birth to at least one child before she died, probably assumes that Obi-wan hid him on Tantoine.
Still why did Vader not learn about Leia until ROTJ?

They were in contact numerous times, and as a Senator wouldn't her DNA be on file? Bail Organa was known to be friendly with the Jedi and Padme so wouldn't any number of possibley routine test have proved that Leia wasn't his daughter? Shouldn't a simple blood test have reveled hightened Midochlorian levels?

Did Vader ever return to Naboo after the clone wars? Is it mentioned anywhere that he ever visited Padme's grave?

Or am I simply asking why fictional characters in a Space Opera didn't act with a modicum of rationality.

JGregory32 wrote:Okay so Vader learns that Padme gave birth to at least one child before she died, probably assumes that Obi-wan hid him on Tantoine.
Still why did Vader not learn about Leia until ROTJ?

They were in contact numerous times, and as a Senator wouldn't her DNA be on file? Bail Organa was known to be friendly with the Jedi and Padme so wouldn't any number of possibley routine test have proved that Leia wasn't his daughter? Shouldn't a simple blood test have reveled hightened Midochlorian levels?

Did Vader ever return to Naboo after the clone wars? Is it mentioned anywhere that he ever visited Padme's grave?

Or am I simply asking why fictional characters in a Space Opera didn't act with a modicum of rationality.

As usual when there are continuity issues, it's simply Lucas's poor planning and worse ret-conning that shines through. I have yet to see a believable IU explanation.

JGregory32 wrote:Still why did Vader not learn about Leia until ROTJ?

They were in contact numerous times, and as a Senator wouldn't her DNA be on file?

The DNA results could have been altered.

Bail Organa was known to be friendly with the Jedi and Padme so wouldn't any number of possibley routine test have proved that Leia wasn't his daughter?

What makes you think he hid the fact that she was adopted? Leia knew Bail and his wife weren't her biological parents. Adoption isn't a big deal in real life. Why should it be so in SW?

Shouldn't a simple blood test have reveled hightened Midochlorian levels?

Qui-gon explicitly asked for the count in TPM, not just a standard blood test. Besides, the Jedi are extinct in ANH. Remember Tarkin's reaction when Vader tells him Obi-Wan is on the Death Star? They weren't worried about it anymore.

Did Vader ever return to Naboo after the clone wars? Is it mentioned anywhere that he ever visited Padme's grave?

Probably not. That part of him is dead.

Darth Servo wrote:

JGregory32 wrote:Did Vader ever return to Naboo after the clone wars? Is it mentioned anywhere that he ever visited Padme's grave?

Probably not. That part of him is dead.

No, it's not; he still thought of her at least as of 0 BBY (SW Empire: Betrayal). Still, I don't think there's any mention of him returning to Naboo.

Vader couldn't bare to set foot on the planet Tatooine, as is mentioned in Dark Lord: The Rise Of Vader IIRC, and we all know that Anakin/Vader isn't the type to face his failings easily so why would he go to Padame's grave? He's the Emperors #1 guy and most likely far to busy to take a few days away from oppression, murder and bloody mayhem.

For the record, the line as said in "The Empire Strikes Back" is as follows:

DV: Obi-Wan never told you what happened to your father.
Luke: He told me enough! He told me you killed him.

DV: No. I am your father.

Reportedly, the line in the script was "no, obiwan killed your father" and george lucas told the actor the line right before the camras started rolling

Darth Hoth wrote:

Darth Servo wrote:

JGregory32 wrote:Did Vader ever return to Naboo after the clone wars? Is it mentioned anywhere that he ever visited Padme's grave?

Probably not. That part of him is dead.

No, it's not; he still thought of her at least as of 0 BBY (SW Empire: Betrayal). Still, I don't think there's any mention of him returning to Naboo.

It's not dead, 'e's just resting!