EP II questions

[0.1]

After seeing EP II a couple of times, there was just some stuff that didn't seem to add up, perhaps someone could explain.

Facts:

1. The Repblic had no army. Hence the clone army.

Questions:
- Did the Republic have a navy and just how big is that navy? (It wasn't at all obvious to me) Further thought, perhaps the like the Clone army, the Republic doesn't have a navy in terms of personnel, and clone troopers were used in that role.
- Where did all that wonderful heavy weaponry come from? It seemed like the obvious answer was the Kaminos. So, does that mean that the Kaminos are a massive arms manufactruer as well? And did they in fact have more planets doing heavy weapons manufacturing? Or did the heavy weapons (i.e. gunships) come from Republic storage? This is possible since the clone troopers (I assume they were clone troopers using the heavy weapons) seem to know how to handle these weapons, meaning their training was modeled on known existing hardware.

2. The Acclimator ships were landing on the planet during the battle. (no space battles shown)

Questions:
- Did the Republic manage to gain only partial space superiority given that there were likely active Trade Federation BBs surrounding the planet? The reason for this question was due to the fact that Trade Federation BBs were seen docking unmolested during the Dooku escape scene.

- How powerful are Trade Federation BBs relative to the Republic Acclimators? It almost seem that these ships must be somewhat at parity given that the Republic forces did not gain total space superiority, or perhaps Trade Federation BB had numerical superiority but were inferior in terms of raw capability compared to the Acclimators. This leads back to the question above: Just how strong is the Republic navy?

These are just a couple of questions I had immediately. May be someone could share their thoughts using some rational analysis. As for the movie itself, it was great as far as visual effects were concerned. But aside from Jedi's inability to coordinate themselves effectively as a military force, I thought Jango acted like a total fool in the end. In an arena full of battle droides fighting jedis, Jango decides to charge into the fray against Mace Windu. Talk about an act of lunacy. I bet the Kaminos edited out the "I'm a moron" gene from the clone troopers genetic make up. I suppose in a roundabout way, this explains Boba Fett (unaltered clone, heh heh).

[Icehawk]

Did the Republic have a navy and just how big is that navy? (It wasn't at all obvious to me) Further thought, perhaps the like the Clone army, the Republic doesn't have a navy in terms of personnel, and clone troopers were used in that role.

The Republic had nothing in terms of a dedicated, unified military, navy, etc untill the Clone army and all its ships was revealed. Only local planetary forces and the armies of the various unions and groups existed as military power in the republic untill the clone forces came.

Where did all that wonderful heavy weaponry come from? It seemed like the obvious answer was the Kaminos. So, does that mean that the Kaminos are a massive arms manufactruer as well? And did they in fact have more planets doing heavy weapons manufacturing? Or did the heavy weapons (i.e. gunships) come from Republic storage? This is possible since the clone troopers (I assume they were clone troopers using the heavy weapons) seem to know how to handle these weapons, meaning their training was modeled on known existing hardware.

The Kaminoans only supplied the clone troopers, their armor and weaponry. The vehicles, and space vessels were all manufactured by numerous other corporations like the KDY (Kuat Drive Yards) and Sienar Fleet Systems (then known as Sienar Design Systems) and many of their numerous subsidiaries

- Did the Republic manage to gain only partial space superiority given that there were likely active Trade Federation BBs surrounding the planet? The reason for this question was due to the fact that Trade Federation BBs were seen docking unmolested during the Dooku escape scene.

The only Trade Federation and other Union vessels present were all docked on the planet surface as far as I know. However in the Episode 2 Incredible Cross Sections book. It states that the Geonosians launched "thousands of standbye fighters to break the Republic's orbital cordon blocking Corporate Alliance ground reinforcements." So their likely was a space battle but we simply didn't see it in the film.

How powerful are Trade Federation BBs relative to the Republic Acclimators? It almost seem that these ships must be somewhat at parity given that the Republic forces did not gain total space superiority, or perhaps Trade Federation BB had numerical superiority but were inferior in terms of raw capability compared to the Acclimators. This leads back to the question above: Just how strong is the Republic navy?

The Trade Federation ships are definately not a match for the Acclamators as they lack anysort of Turbolaser class weaponry on any of their capital vessels. The Globe portion of the Federation vessels we see in Episode 2 has only 280 point Defense laser cannons each with a maximum yield of 8 kilotons pershot. The rest of the vessel which the Globe part detaches from carries 42 Quad Laser cannons.

The Republic Acclamator class vessels carry 12 Quad Turbolaser class turrets with a yield of 200 GIGATONS pershot and 24 laser cannons with yields of 6 megatons pershot. They also carry 4 Heavy strategic missile/torpedo tubes on the front of them. Their peak shield power is rated at 7E22 Watts. While the Federation ships are physically larger, The Acclamator is a substantially more powerful vessel. These figures all come from the Episode 2 Incredible Cross Sections Book Written by Physicist Curtis Saxton. And it is Officially Licensed by Lucasfilm so the numbers have Official status in the Star Wars universe.

[0.1]

That is interesting. I wonder where all the crew for those ships came from. In fact, it begs the question, where did the acclamators come from in the first place? Even if they were built elsewhere, they must have been built or at least a good number were under construction prior to the events of AOTC. (which seem to take over the span of may be a couple of weeks at most) Perhaps Acclamators were automated warships, although that seem very unlikely.

The same is true for the other heavy weapons, although one could assume that for the lesser vehicles, it would be relatively fast to assemble them. I guess the key issue was how long did it take between the time when Mace told Yoda he was going to Geonosis and when he finally got there.

The question though still comes back to the military industrial capacity of the Republic, given the short amount of time during AOTC, it's somewhat curious that they had a completed army/navy within such a short time. And since the clonetroopers appear to be only ground forces I think. So, I wonder if that means that the Republic was already armed nearly to the teeth before the clone army were brought about. After all, most of the heavy equipment might have been in place already, and there had to have been some military structure in place before the army was set up. Would've been nice to have had more info overall on the true military situation of the Republic

[Icehawk]

Every war machine, weapon, officer, and soldier of the Clone army had been built up over the 10 year period between Episode 1 and Episode 2. The clone troopers are genetically engineered to be mature at 10 years of age as stated by the Kaminoans. Also, 10 years is more than enough time for a galaxy spanning organization such as the Republic with all its resources, and manufacturers to build up an army and all its equipment.

They were able to utilize it so quickly because the first groups of soldiers and equipment were ready and waiting to go. Also, Palpatine and Dooku had been planning everything out carefully for these events to happen. When you here Lord Sidious (who is actually Palpatine), say to Dooku at the end of the film, "Good, Everything is proceeding as planned..." you know they have been in control of all the major events that have been happening.

[David]

I wonder why the Old Republic ships didn't engage and destroy the TF ships if they had the fire power, or just DBZ the TF troops on planet.

[Einhander Snoman]

...or just DBZ...

Erm you need to find Planet Namek, get Goku and company, and THEN find the 7 Dragon balls.... Anyway on a more serious note, I see no difficulty whatsoever with a 10-year span between the word Go and a standing army complete with massive dropships and motor pool to make any other army green with envy. It's even easily within the realm of feasibility that the army be built up in total secrecy, what with the enormous capacity of the Galaxy... Lata and Happy Fragging!

[Mr Bean]

BDZ is waneted Desctruction you can't Selectivly BDZ a particular 10 mile square area with out risking local troops

[Doomriser]

The Republic might have had some semblance of a navy pre-AOTC. In TPM there is the Rebel Cruiser, but that is just a diplomatic vessel, so we know that they had a diplomatic or senatorial fleet. But Holonet News ran several articles pre-AOTC about a renegade Republic CEC Corvette, which was armed. It was on a patrol mission, too. So they did have patrol corvettes, I don't know what else. Various organizations had personal fleets, such as KDY which had ships presumably larger than the Acclamators, according to the ICS.

[David]

BDZ is waneted Desctruction you can't Selectivly BDZ a particular 10 mile square area with out risking local troops

How do you know???

[0.1]

Ah, very good point about the ten intervening years. I hadn't thought of that. It is very amazing that they've managed to keep everything such a big secret. Although given the size of the galaxy, It isn't out of the question.

What is truly insane though is that the jedis hadn't foreseen any of these happenings. Wonder if they actually stopped afterwards and ask where all of these goodies suddenly came from... I just don't buy the "let's keep an eye on the Senate" line, that would either indicate the entire jedi council was composed of idiots or they knew about a lot of these construction ahead of time. If the latter, then it's amazing that no one bothered to ask why heavy weapons were been constructed. Any thoughts on this?

[Mr Bean]

Dave in BDZ you leave no survivers, You MELT the upper crust of the planet, You hit an area so hard only people in deep shealters can survive.
DON'T you think if you have some Troops 2 KM away they might catch some of that Planet melting action?

You CAN bombard them at will, But you can't BDZ them, Thats a few steps up the ladder in wanten Destruction

(IE its similar to the Modern day similary, Using a 10 Megaton Nuclear weapon on advnacing troops VS using Smaller Killioton sized Nuclear weapons on them, Both gets them just as dead ones just awhole lot less likley to kill friendlys)

[David]

Just bombardment is what I meant.



Anyways, the reason the jedi didn't foresee the event is because, as Yoda said, " Clouds everything, the dark side does."

[His Divine Shadow]

It's also quite clearly said in Ep. II by Mace Windu that they are having problems with the force.

[David]

Mace Windu: Yoda, how are we supposed to sense the force with you stinking up the place


Yoda: Sorry, I am


Obi-Wan: Hey, you smelt it, you dealt it!

[Kuja]

What I want to know is this: if the Senate hadn't yet approved an arny, how was the buildup of Acclamators, AT-TEs, and the rest of the weaponry explained?

[Icehawk]

What I want to know is this: if the Senate hadn't yet approved an arny, how was the buildup of Acclamators, AT-TEs, and the rest of the weaponry explained?

Hers a Direct Quote from the ICS that explains it:

"The new Galactic Army's arsenal was secretly built by a mighty corporation that could have led the Separatists if not for bloody treachery. Leading Kuati executives were assasinated when Neimoidians took over the Trade Federation at the notorious Eriau Conference a decade earlier. The outraged industrialists have since aligned with the Supreme Chancellery. Meanwhile the pace of clandestine construction accelerates in Kuat's cordoned shipyards and factories on Rothana."

So you see. Kuat Drive Yards and its subsidiaries had made a pact with Chancellor Palpatine after some of their top executives were assasinated and they had been constructing the ships and vehicles in secret over the decade between Ep1 and Ep2. Chancellor Palpatine (Lord Sidious) and his darkside allies had been planning all this for a long time and its all gone according to their plans perfectly. All thats left now is for Palpatine to declare himself Emperor in a few years and his grand scheme of ruling the Republic/Galactic Empire will be fulfilled.

[David]

Hey I forgot about that! I gosta get thatEp2ICS

[Master of Ossus]

The ICS states that the Kaminoans sub-contracted the manufacturing of equipment to other companies and corporations. If you trust the EU, then the Republic did not have a navy, but it did have "judiciaries" which served as a kind of ATF/FBI/military force, but they were primarily tasked with law enforcement issues, and usually were not required to engage in combat (although some of them were trained to do so). It seems that in the Republic, the most that the Senate could do would be to ask sectors and powerful planets to use their militaries to lay down the law against rogue groups like the TF.

[David]

Where in the EU is that? It must be in the Jedi Apprentice books or Rogue Plane, those are the only ones I haven't read.

[Kuja]

OK, that makes sense. Yeah, I guess I forgot that you have planets like Kuat and Corellia that have shipyards the size of...I can't think of anything that big.

One other thing I want to know: When the gunship is chasing Count Dooku, the pilot says that they're out of rockets and can't shoot him down. Didn't they have anyone at the mini-superlaser turrets? That would be a huge mistake.

[Mr Bean]

Effective Range? Maybe they did but Dooku is to small a target to shot down by cannon fire

[Kuja]

Too small? They were shooting at quick-moving destroyer droids and scoring hits. And if Dooku was out of range, that's a pretty pathetic range. I mean, these guns are obviously designed for damage. Not suppression fire, not cover fire, damage.

[David]

Perhaps they had used up the energy cell powering the laser. That's is what the AT-ST's used. Or it might have been damaged.

[Kuja]

I dunno...both turrets on opposite sides damaged? That's a pretty heavy coincidence. Not to mention the two more in the wings.

[David]

Or they are short range weapons. When the calvary first arived in AOTC they waited until the last moment to fire those bad boys.