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The one about seeing the OT in a new light?

Well, going by someone who got the book early:

Vader orders his apprentice to secretly gather the Emperor's enemies as a unified Alliance so the Emperor will be distracted for a while, thereby leading to his potential treachery and usurption of the throne.

That's right, Vader creates the Rebel Alliance and gets the ball rolling. I guess it worked too well for his taste, given he's stuck hunting down bases for 6 years afterwards.

VT-16 wrote:The one about seeing the OT in a new light?

Well, going by someone who got the book early:


Vader orders his apprentice to secretly gather the Emperor's enemies as a unified Alliance so the Emperor will be distracted for a while, thereby leading to his potential treachery and usurption of the throne.

That's right, Vader creates the Rebel Alliance and gets the ball rolling. I guess it worked too well for his taste, given he's stuck hunting down bases for 6 years afterwards.

Hmm. That's ... actually not half bad. Probably one of the thing's GL had input in, given he was telling them what Vader was doing in this period and what not.

It's ironic, and possibly deliberate then, that Vader ends up hunting the bases down.

You know Palpatine 'this is your mess, you clean it up'

Solauren wrote:It's ironic, and possibly deliberate then, that Vader ends up hunting the bases down.

You know Palpatine 'this is your mess, you clean it up'

I feel like palpatine would see it coming a mile away given what he had HIS Aprenticeeeeeceses (Apprenti?) doing with the frade federation and later the sepratists. how ripshit would the rebel alliance be though if they discovered this?

It'd probably be one of those 'crazy theories' that nobody ever believes.

Themightytom wrote:how ripshit would the rebel alliance be though if they discovered this?

Depends on when...

Post RotJ, Skywalker would use the info to prove his daddy wasn't all bad and was in fact aiding the Rebellion at every opportunity.

Post ESB, the Rebellion tears itself apart due suspicion and paranoia

Pre-ANH, It's just viewed as a conspiracy thoery, and an implausible one at that

Vympel wrote: Hmm. That's ... actually not half bad. Probably one of the thing's GL had input in, given he was telling them what Vader was doing in this period and what not.

While its possible, I wouldn't just assume that because its a good idea in an EU product it must have been Lucas's feedback that put it in there. without sounding liek the Lucas bashers he HAS had some pretty goofy ideas from time to time as well.

So on top of the Rebels being too incompetent to form a viable post-Empire government, they are now too stupid to have started it all for themselves in the first place?

Because Palpatine needs more enemies? Wow, who'd know a hateful, genocidal Sith Lord would have such a hard time getting enough people to hate him.

Okay...

So on top of the Rebels being too incompetent to form a viable post-Empire government, they are now too stupid to have started it all for themselves in the first place?

How about reading the first post before jabbering? It's not the beginning of resistance, just the foundation of an alliance between various independent groups.

It directly contradicts seated canon; the Corellian Treaty was negotiated between the largest resistance groups sponsored by the Corellian, Alderaanian, and Chandrilian states by the "Big Three" of the Alliance to Restore the Republic - Garm bel Iblis, Bail Organa, and Mon Mothma.

VT-16 wrote:

So on top of the Rebels being too incompetent to form a viable post-Empire government, they are now too stupid to have started it all for themselves in the first place?

How about reading the first post before jabbering? It's not the beginning of resistance, just the foundation of an alliance between various independent groups.

Yes, hence "Rebel Alliance". Again, why do they need an external source to get the idea that they have to work together to combat Palpatine's regime?

You seemed to say the resistance groups' beginnings. I still wager that's what you thought. :P

The foundation between the three characters seem to take place in this game, given the cut scenes from the trailers. I guess the push to get them to cooperate comes as part of the gameplay.

Illuminatus Primus wrote:It directly contradicts seated canon; the Corellian Treaty was negotiated between the largest resistance groups sponsored by the Corellian, Alderaanian, and Chandrilian states by the "Big Three" of the Alliance to Restore the Republic - Garm bel Iblis, Bail Organa, and Mon Mothma.

Without knowing how he did it I think it may be too early to cry foul - for all we know he just manipulated events to get the leaders talking more and maybe nudged their minds a bit with the frce and let them run with it from there.

VT-16 wrote:You seemed to say the resistance groups' beginnings. I still wager that's what you thought.

No, as clearly individual resistance groups would always spring up. But the idea that the biggest ones not only needed an external source to get them united against the monolithic power of the Empire, but that this external source was the enemy is in my view idiotic in the extreme.

Nevermind that a deleted scene from RotS directly contradicts this. I guess it has no canon status, but this means this is clearly a new gimmick thought up for shock value.

Ender wrote:Without knowing how he did it I think it may be too early to cry foul - for all we know he just manipulated events to get the leaders talking more and maybe nudged their minds a bit with the frce and let them run with it from there.

Given this is material in an action-game full of gimmicks where you play a guy that looks like the chairman of a neo nazi skinhead convention I'm not to optimistic that a lot of subtle manipulation will be involved.

Ender wrote:

Illuminatus Primus wrote:It directly contradicts seated canon; the Corellian Treaty was negotiated between the largest resistance groups sponsored by the Corellian, Alderaanian, and Chandrilian states by the "Big Three" of the Alliance to Restore the Republic - Garm bel Iblis, Bail Organa, and Mon Mothma.

Without knowing how he did it I think it may be too early to cry foul - for all we know he just manipulated events to get the leaders talking more and maybe nudged their minds a bit with the frce and let them run with it from there.

For all we know, Vader sent his apprentice to stop Palpatine's agents from KEEPING them from meeting. It certainly is too soon to tell.

I'm with Onasi. Fan service gimmickry.

Illuminatus Primus wrote:I'm with Onasi. Fan service gimmickry.

Yes. God forbid Lucas Arts appeases fans for a game fans want to play.

havokeff wrote:

Illuminatus Primus wrote:I'm with Onasi. Fan service gimmickry.

Yes. God forbid Lucas Arts appeases fans for a game fans want to play.

I just know this thread convinced everyone to play it, and not swinging a red Sith lightsaber around with your Wiimote and tearing shit up. Right.

I really don't think many people care much about playing it on a Wii (except a small section of Nintendo gamers of course). It's coolest gameplay features are only available on X360/PS3.

I've never been excited about any version, to be honest.
Give me KotOR any day. This is just the nail in the coffin for me - I swear that between this, the post-RotJ books and the Legacy comics the EU has become pro-Empire propaganda.
Which isn't so bad to me technically, I love the Empire! But it just feels like so much fannish nonsense.

Darth Onasi wrote:I've never been excited about any version, to be honest.
Give me KotOR any day. This is just the nail in the coffin for me - I swear that between this, the post-RotJ books and the Legacy comics the EU has become pro-Empire propaganda.
Which isn't so bad to me technically, I love the Empire! But it just feels like so much fannish nonsense.

As has been noted already, this might be more about the Dark Lord interfering with Imperial agents with his secret apprentice in order to allow the Alliance to be born from the various resistance groups than about Vader personally forming the Alliance (as Lord Sidious did with the Separatists via his apprentice, Lord Tyranus). I hardly see how this would be pro-Imperial propaganda, it would just show that Vader is just as capable of Machiavellian plotting as his master is.

Ugh, apparantly, the guy read through the book. It's got surprises that make little to no sense now, and seems to fuck with continuity (even movie-based one).


Vader seems to want to gather the leaders of the rebellion in one place so he could nab 'em and bring them to the Emperor as a trophy. Apparantly, Garm, Mon and Bail all get captured by Vader himself(!) after the apprentice (who's name is revealed in the novel to be Jacob Nion, btw) pulled some strings etc. Now, Jacob gets second thoughts through this sequence of events, having been influenced by light-side characters through the story so far, and Vader turns on him. One thing leads to another, and Jacob chases the captives to the unfinished Death Star, where they are to be presented as traitors to Palpatine himself. He rescues them, has a fight with his now ex-father figure and gets powned by Palps in the end.

So basically, now Vader knows Bail is a traitor, 2 years before Yavin? How does that work out, given his daughter becomes the next Senator from Alderaan? Leia is forced to renounce her father? Bail goes into exile?
Movie-continuity-wise, this isn't insurmountable, but it fucks with some EU, given Bail's seeming public innocence up until the destruction of his planet.

VT-16 wrote:Ugh, apparantly, the guy read through the book. It's got surprises that make little to no sense now, and seems to fuck with continuity (even movie-based one).


Vader seems to want to gather the leaders of the rebellion in one place so he could nab 'em and bring them to the Emperor as a trophy. Apparantly, Garm, Mon and Bail all get captured by Vader himself(!) after the apprentice (who's name is revealed in the novel to be Jacob Nion, btw) pulled some strings etc. Now, Jacob gets second thoughts through this sequence of events, having been influenced by light-side characters through the story so far, and Vader turns on him. One thing leads to another, and Jacob chases the captives to the unfinished Death Star, where they are to be presented as traitors to Palpatine himself. He rescues them, has a fight with his now ex-father figure and gets powned by Palps in the end.

Uh, right. Who is going to take back their eager justification for the latest LucasTurd (tm)?

VT-16 wrote:So basically, now Vader knows Bail is a traitor, 2 years before Yavin? How does that work out, given his daughter becomes the next Senator from Alderaan? Leia is forced to renounce her father? Bail goes into exile?
Movie-continuity-wise, this isn't insurmountable, but it fucks with some EU, given Bail's seeming public innocence up until the destruction of his planet.

Bail is still on Alderaan in 0 ABY, he's the only one of the "Big Three" rebel sponsors who remains publicly exposed and ostensibly loyal. This is pretty horrible pre-Yavin, and very difficult to justify without a huge cludge. The only possible fix is the public evidence was insufficient and Alderaan's standing and clout in the Senate was sufficient that Bail was untouchable, even though Palpatine and Vader knew him to be a traitor. This is fucking dumb. And of course, they bring them to the Death Star; the unfinished Death Star seems to be the Tattooine of the pre-movie period. Ugh.

Hmm. I was pretty much on board with this until VT-16's post.

And what happened to the guy being "Starkiller" anyway?

Tiriol wrote:

Darth Onasi wrote:I've never been excited about any version, to be honest.
Give me KotOR any day. This is just the nail in the coffin for me - I swear that between this, the post-RotJ books and the Legacy comics the EU has become pro-Empire propaganda.
Which isn't so bad to me technically, I love the Empire! But it just feels like so much fannish nonsense.

As has been noted already, this might be more about the Dark Lord interfering with Imperial agents with his secret apprentice in order to allow the Alliance to be born from the various resistance groups than about Vader personally forming the Alliance (as Lord Sidious did with the Separatists via his apprentice, Lord Tyranus). I hardly see how this would be pro-Imperial propaganda, it would just show that Vader is just as capable of Machiavellian plotting as his master is.

I just dislike the notion that the resistance groups had to be prodded into uniting by an enemy conspiracy. The EU's already established that the Rebellion can't run the New Republic to save it's life, royally botches the defence against the Vong and all falls apart eventually leading to a new Empire, but *now* if it wasn't for some previously unmentioned (and unbearably wanky) Sith apprentice there wouldn't have been an Alliance in the first place?

VT-16 wrote:Ugh, apparantly, the guy read through the book. It's got surprises that make little to no sense now, and seems to fuck with continuity (even movie-based one).


Vader seems to want to gather the leaders of the rebellion in one place so he could nab 'em and bring them to the Emperor as a trophy. Apparantly, Garm, Mon and Bail all get captured by Vader himself(!) after the apprentice (who's name is revealed in the novel to be Jacob Nion, btw) pulled some strings etc. Now, Jacob gets second thoughts through this sequence of events, having been influenced by light-side characters through the story so far, and Vader turns on him. One thing leads to another, and Jacob chases the captives to the unfinished Death Star, where they are to be presented as traitors to Palpatine himself. He rescues them, has a fight with his now ex-father figure and gets powned by Palps in the end.

So basically, now Vader knows Bail is a traitor, 2 years before Yavin? How does that work out, given his daughter becomes the next Senator from Alderaan? Leia is forced to renounce her father? Bail goes into exile?
Movie-continuity-wise, this isn't insurmountable, but it fucks with some EU, given Bail's seeming public innocence up until the destruction of his planet.

That's.. just.. wow.