StarDestroyer.Net BBS

I apologize if this topic has been done before. I've been a fan of the site for years, but this is my first post.

I was watching a recent review of Episode I, and the reviewer mentioned the following. Towards the beginning of the film, Jar-Jar Binks tells Qui Gon Gin and Obi Wan Kenobi that the Gungans live in a hidden city. The two Jedi put on rebreathers, and follow Jar-Jar on a swim to the city. Now, I'm pretty sure the deepest a human can go without specialized equipment is a couple hundred meters. Now, let's take a look at the Gungan city (picture from Wookiepedia):



This collection of jack-o-lanterns is lit up like Vegas. Now, wouldn't something this big and bright be visible at night from the surface of the water? The water's obviously not exceedingly murky, as we can, you know, see the city. This goes in direct contradiction to Jar-Jar's statement that the city is "hidden." I can come up with the following explanations:

• Naboo's unusual geology hides the city. Apparently, the crust of Naboo to some depth is honeycombed and flooded. Otoh Gunga is not only under water, but under rock as well, which hides it from surface/aerial observation.
• Jar-Jar's an idiot. This is definitely a possibility. The city is not hidden, which is why the Gungans abandon it later in the film.
• The city is exceptionally deep. In addition to donning rebreathers, the two Jedi have extra deep-sea life support equipment, or they use the Force. Gungans have some sort of exotic biology that allows them to walk on land and swim around under substantial water pressure.

Obviously, these concerns are meaningless if very bright objects are hidden by two hundred meters of water. I don't know how to figure this out, but common sense would suggest that a deep glow would be visible from the water's surface given the size of Otoh Gunga.

What are your thoughts?

well Gungans are amphibic, thought based on other I'd say that Jar-Jar being an idiot or that "hidden" means hidden in the swamp rather then hiden underwater is the most likely anwser.

after all thre Naboo weren't exactly looking for it and all other (apart from the Trade Federation) who'd might find it wouldn't come in force large enough to threaten the city.

Euphotic zones in highly productive waters can be very shallow; <10m for the extinguishing of 99% of all inbound light. It could be simply that the lake is highly productive or sediment rich; given that there's an active city beneath the lake, expanding the city would probably kick up sediment and there might be some sort of pollution which triggers eutrophication and primary productivity blooms in the upper waters. Also, if it is swampland, productivity will be high, as will suspended sediment generally.

El Moose Monstero wrote: Euphotic zones in highly productive waters can be very shallow; <10m for the extinguishing of 99% of all inbound light.

That's possible, but I don't think that fits with what we saw onscreen. In the film, the city is clearly visible, stretching off for a signficant distance. I'm not doing any scaling here, but it looks like it's hundreds of meters.

Palantas wrote:

El Moose Monstero wrote: Euphotic zones in highly productive waters can be very shallow; <10m for the extinguishing of 99% of all inbound light.

That's possible, but I don't think that fits with what we saw onscreen. In the film, the city is clearly visible, stretching off for a signficant distance. I'm not doing any scaling here, but it looks like it's hundreds of meters.

True, and this is where my knowledge of lake environments starts tailing off and someone who knows more can tell me to STFU, but just because there's light at the bottom of the lake which could be provided by the city and the water is clear down there, doesn't mean that the immediate surface of the lake isn't opaque due to high primary productivity and plankton blooms.

We could have a highly productive surface layer which effectively obscures aerial observation and then at depth, the Gungans pump some sort of flocculant into the surrounding water to clear up sediment and 'marine' snow. Lets face it, what's the point in building a majestic city of glowing transparent bubbles if you can't see shit - or more accurately, can only see shit?

That makes sense. I suppose I should add another possibility up there, that being that the Gungans are deliberately hiding their city by obscuring the upper levels of the lake/clearing the lower levels.

I always just assumed that Otoh Gunga was in a cave. Regardless, even if the water is pretty clear, it's also pretty dark. There's not a lot of sunlight illuminating the seafloor in and around the city, and we know the sky is at least partly sunny. Also, the city might still be hidden through active, technological means.

The Naboo traded with the Gungans regularly and the Trade Federation knew where to go within days. It seems to me Jar-jar is just dumb.

To be fair, the city could still be "hidden". The only problem is, it doesn't matter that it's hidden if everyone knows where it is. The Naboo know where it is because they trade with the Gungans. The Trade Federation merely had to interrogate someone to find out where it was.

EDIT: The Trade Federation didn't know where it was, or even that it existed, when they landed. They were investigating "rumors of a hidden city". Lends more support to the theory that it was hidden fairly well, but too many people knew about it.

being in the middle of a swamp would help it stay hidden in a way. If it's in a place most Naboo don't go very often then really only the elite would really know about it at all.