StarDestroyer.Net BBS

What is the worst EU novel you ever spent money on or read; (note, comic books don't count)

Order 66 was so bad I actually threw it across the bookstore. That's right, I wall chucked a book I didn't even own. I'm lucky I didn't hit anyone.

Worst that I own... Probably that SW Galaxies novel, Ruins of Dantooine. It literally read like someone played the game and wrote down their quest line and claimed "this is a novel!". The Crystal Star was better than this. It was that bad.

The Crystal Star

That was just such a boring book, and a pain to read. It was only through sheer inertia that I forced myself to finish that thing. Even KJA's books were readable, despite their other problems. Easily the worst I've read: I own it and I've only read it the once. Every other book, even Darksaber I've read more than once (although I'll happily skip the Luke and Callista bits). And this was back in middle school, before I gave a damn about the numbers or continuity and whatnot.

FYI, I haven't read much of the NJO, and none of KT's work or any post-NJO beyond a few Legacy comics and the Zahn novels. Hence why LOTF and the "Adventures of the Mandalorians" don't get a mention here.

I have deliberately kept from purchasing any Traviss novels, but from what I have seen and heard of them, they easily qualify (with some difficulty pinning down which one that is the worst).

As for the worst that I have actually read in their entirety, The Crystal Star would be the worst written, though it is at least self-contained and free of much of the stupid minimalism that is otherwise so pervasive. The plot and writing style were, of course, both awful (in particular, Leia apparently becoming schizophrenic).

The New Rebellion

One world, three star destroyers, a bunch of droid-bombs, and the entire New Republic is in jeapordy.

Yeah, it's that ludicrous.

I'd like to nominate Isard's Revenge, but you know, I can't remember a single thing that happened in it. So I suppose I have to echo its spiritual brother, aka The New Rebellion.

I can't decide if "I, Jedi" or "Bacta War" was worse. I'll probably say "Bacta War" beause the wank extended past one character.

Anything, and I mean *ANYTHING* Written by Timothy Zahn, where the original SW gang plays second fiddle to Zahn's own godmodding characters. Then he goes on ahead and makes "Outbound Flight", same agenda: The Original SW characters play sidekicks and don't act the way they would had a more experienced SW writer would've portrayed them. And he goes too far out of his way to make homages to the original series.

On the other hand, Kevin J. Anderson's "Darksaber" and the "Shadows of the Empire" Novelization by Steve Perry ought to be made into movies.

Grand Lord Revan wrote:Anything, and I mean *ANYTHING* Written by Timothy Zahn, where the original SW gang plays second fiddle to Zahn's own godmodding characters. Then he goes on ahead and makes "Outbound Flight", same agenda: The Original SW characters play sidekicks and don't act the way they would had a more experienced SW writer would've portrayed them. And he goes too far out of his way to make homages to the original series.

Perfectly valid criticisms of an outherwise talented author aside...

On the other hand, Kevin J. Anderson's "Darksaber" and the "Shadows of the Empire" Novelization by Steve Perry ought to be made into movies.

You have to be kidding.

Hey Darksaber would follow the current Hollywood trend of slow build to last minute letdowns. (I'm looking at YOU mission to mars)

Themightytom wrote:Hey Darksaber would follow the current Hollywood trend of slow build to last minute letdowns. (I'm looking at YOU mission to mars)

Yes but it would also restart the trend of awful SW movies (or continue it depending on your opinion of Episode III and the CW movie).

I think that i'm going to change my vote from Bacta War to Darksaber now. Bacta War was just wank, but it did have Wedge Antilles and a hilarious part where Corran Horn gets his ass whooped being stupid. I can appreciate that on an unintended level. But Darksaber was pathetic in so many ways. THE GODDAMN THING COULDN'T EVEN FIRE!

And here I thought the 'original SW gang' were pretty central to TTT and the Hand of Thrawn duology...

'Crystal Star'. Yes, the abomination that is KJA's work did infinitely more damage to the EU since unlike 'Crystal Star', it actually had consequences in the later EU. But viewed on its own, KJA's work is simply really bad, whereas 'The Crystal Star' is 'You gotta be fucking kidding me. This makes absolutely no sense.' bad.

Batman wrote:And here I thought the 'original SW gang' were pretty central to TTT and the Hand of Thrawn duology..

Yeah, I don't get it either.

Eleas wrote:I'd like to nominate Isard's Revenge, but you know, I can't remember a single thing that happened in it. So I suppose I have to echo its spiritual brother, aka The New Rebellion.

What was so wrong about Isard's Revenge? Do you maybe confuse it with the "rebels attack coruscant" novel? And how was The New Rebellion Isard's Revenge's spiritual brother?

Zahn's novels are all centered around "The Gang" he just created new enemies for them and some new allies. The only exception would be Outbound Flight which follows Jorj Car'das, but it still has Obi-wan and Anakin from the main cast.

I don't know why you had a problem with his characterizations of "The Gang" either. Han's still a scoundrel, Lando's a charmer and schemer and the both stick pretty close to who they are in the movies except that they're more responsible and wiser. I think you could say that about all of them in his works.

As much as I like Zahn and his novels I have to admit they are phenomenally minimalist, but that's about the only thing wrong with them

For my least favorite Novel(s) I'm going to have to say the Killik Trilogy. Interesting idea of bringing back the mysteriously vanished species that used to live on Alderaan, but they made them into an organic borg complete with a hive mind and an evil queen, oh and they're from the star wars version of the delta quadrant. Then there was the bit where the Falcon's hyperdrive has nacelles and can do a "smugglers reverse" in hyperspace.

I actually like Hard Contact and Triple Zero is ok, but I stopped reading KT after I picked up Bloodlines (which IMO was better then Killik Trilogy). I didn't even bother with the LotF after that.

Thanas wrote:What was so wrong about Isard's Revenge?

That's just it. I can't remember. I don't recall a single thing that happened in that book aside from the asinine "villain got away" contrivance. The only thing I remember is the bored incredulity I felt while reading it. The plot? If there was one, it was at best unworthy of remembrance. I've had to look it up on Wookiepedia to get any sort of clear picture of it.

Thanas wrote:Do you maybe confuse it with the "rebels attack coruscant" novel? And how was The New Rebellion Isard's Revenge's spiritual brother?

*looks up the "plot" of Isard's Revenge*
Both were terminally boring affairs, both suffered from villains impossible to take seriously even if they'd been standing over your supine body revving up a bloody chainsaw, and both were supposed stand alone as distinct chapters in the Star Wars saga, and finally and most saliently, both failed miserably. While The New Rebellion is a hair worse from the fact that Rusch can't write action scenes for shit (an arena in which Stackpole's actually fairly competent, though he does, to put it delicately, write with his left hand), I think it's one thing for a newcomer to fuck up, and another for a veteran Star Wars author.

Then again, one shouldn't be too surprised. After all, Stackpole was the guy who actually had to beg his readers to buy more of his books to be able to pay his rent, a telling (if pathetic) episode.

It's a tie between Children of the Jedi and Planet of Twilight. Barbara Hambly's books were like valium to me. Stinkers like The New Rebellion and The Crystal Star didn't even do that, although I admit they were mighty awful as well.

I haven't read very much Star Wars fiction (as often what's convincing and interesting on screen is rather less so in prose), but the worst EU story I've read is nestled right next to the best EU story I've read (that amazing Boba Fett story by Daniel Keys Moran) in Tales of the Bounty Hunters-- that horrible Kevin J. Anderson story where IG-88's clone becomes the Death Star, which manages to retroactively make an actual Star Wars movie horrible and dumb by the very act of slipping itself into the ROTJ canon. "# End of IG-88's Droid Revolution[2] " is listed as one of the results of the Battle of Endor on Wookiepedia, and it's all Kevin J. Anderson's fault.

Then again considering KJA's Dune prequels I suppose Star Wars got off rather lightly...

Anyway that Daniel Keys Moran story rules, there should be a whole thread about how great it is.

In all fairness, Isard's Revenge takes place right after TTT, so the argument could be made that the threat wasn't so much Isard and Disposable Warlord #18, but the fact that the NR was still reeling from Thrawn's blitzkrieg.

Grand Lord Revan wrote:On the other hand, Kevin J. Anderson's "Darksaber" and the "Shadows of the Empire" Novelization by Steve Perry ought to be made into movies.

I thought SOTE was bearable, although that might only be due to association with the game, which inspired Rogue Squadron. However, Darksaber was fucking terrible. Seriously, Super-Wampa? What?

Eleas wrote:. After all, Stackpole was the guy who actually had to beg his readers to buy more of his books to be able to pay his rent, a telling (if pathetic) episode.

What? Tell me more of this. Feed my Stackpole hate.

I too am unfamiliar with this story, please enlighten us!

Bad press aside, I have to say that KJA is not quite as awful as people paint him, in the Wars franchise at least. He is not the worst minimalist (Stackpole, Zahn, Kube-McDowell readily outdo him), does not write as retarded plots as some (Rusch, McIntyre, Denning absolutely surpass him), and does not have a Traviss's obnoxious attitude and not-so-hidden agenda. When Dark Empire came out, he (unlike Zahn) was ready to make adjustments to his books to at least somewhat fit it into continuity, so he did at least try. By the novel Expanded Universe standards, he is actually a quite benign influence (though this is, of course, a somewhat relative statement).

Revalation; Invincible had action to make up for it, but revalation just sucked hard

Eleas wrote:

Thanas wrote:What was so wrong about Isard's Revenge?

That's just it. I can't remember. I don't recall a single thing that happened in that book aside from the asinine "villain got away" contrivance. The only thing I remember is the bored incredulity I felt while reading it. The plot? If there was one, it was at best unworthy of remembrance. I've had to look it up on Wookiepedia to get any sort of clear picture of it.

Actually, it was quite a clever plot IMO, tying up loose ends etc. Also, it had decent descriptions of space battles.

Thanas wrote:*looks up the "plot" of Isard's Revenge*
Both were terminally boring affairs, both suffered from villains impossible to take seriously even if they'd been standing over your supine body revving up a bloody chainsaw, and both were supposed stand alone as distinct chapters in the Star Wars saga,

Where do you get that from? Isard's Revenge was not supposed to stand alone at all.

and finally and most saliently, both failed miserably. While The New Rebellion is a hair worse from the fact that Rusch can't write action scenes for shit (an arena in which Stackpole's actually fairly competent, though he does, to put it delicately, write with his left hand), I think it's one thing for a newcomer to fuck up, and another for a veteran Star Wars author.

We have to differ here. Stackpole does not wank the Rogues to his usual extremes in Revenge, Krennel seems to be a competent commander and the rogues almost got killed by a well-planned ambush that was only foiled when TIE Defenders showed up. The rogues even lose simulator battles to Imperials in the book. I definitely believe Revenge is his best work.

Kartr_Kana wrote:As much as I like Zahn and his novels I have to admit they are phenomenally minimalist, but that's about the only thing wrong with them

Agreed, though given that he only had WEG sourcebooks to work with as background, one shouldn't be surprised of the minimalism.

Imperial Overlord wrote:

Eleas wrote:. After all, Stackpole was the guy who actually had to beg his readers to buy more of his books to be able to pay his rent, a telling (if pathetic) episode.

What? Tell me more of this. Feed my Stackpole hate.

Mwahaha. Oh man, you'll love this then. After all, 'tis better to show than tell.

What's worse than that is that the suckers literally bought it and granted him a temporary reprieve. I just have a vision of him sitting with the other arseholes and their laptops in Starbucks, hard at 'work'.