Disappearing theory

Sam Or I · Post by **Sam Or I** » 2003-02-16 06:05am

In my own little mind, I think I came up with the most valid theory of why some Jedi dissapear and others do not. Lucas said it had to do with the line right before Obi Won dies "if you strike me down i will become more powerful than you could ever imagine." (Rember this scene for later refernce)
The most common theory is that they need time to prepare for death. Qui Gon had time to prepare as much as Obi Won, he was dying, but so was Anikin in ROFTJ. The theory does not really make sense to me, it could be it but I doubt it. It does not really have anything to do with with the infamious line that George Lucas said.
Then there are those who say that they are not powerfully enough or pure enough to dissappear like Obi Won and Yoda (it is debatable that Anikin did). Which sorta gave way to GL statement, but it is still iffy, but how many Jedi council members do we see being killed in ATOC?

Now my theory:

What is the one common factor that has happened in each of the Jedis deaths when they disappeared?

Luke Skywalker

Everyone is looking at the Jedi that dies, not who can see him. To me it sounds like something similar to highlander (minus the head slashing), by transferring there powers to some one who can "handle" it with high force potenial. They became one with Luke. This also explains the George Lucas line (notice how Obi looks at Luke before he is struck down), he is becoming more powerful than Vader can imagine by merging with Luke. Just a theory.

Captain Jack · Post by **Captain Jack** » 2003-02-16 03:13pm

Sounds good.

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2003-02-16 03:39pm

Sam Or I wrote:*snippity*

Perhaps this explains why Ulic Qel-Droma disappeared....becoming one with Vima Sunrider?

Perhaps this explains why Deshearcor (I know I didn't spell that right) from Dark Tide II: Ruin disappeared? Becoming one with Anakin?

Kelly Antilles · Post by **Kelly Antilles** » 2003-02-16 03:58pm

Ok, you say Qui-Gon had time to prepare. How? He was not strong in precognition. He was always in the present. He admonished Obi Wan for using precognition.

Darth Fanboy · Post by **Darth Fanboy** » 2003-02-16 04:46pm

Maybe, Just maybe, qui Gonn wasn't that powerful a Jedi to begin with. He was a Master from experience not because he had all sorts of great power.

But I would like to think he was better than a few jedi wannabes from NJO.

Montcalm · Post by **Montcalm** » 2003-02-16 08:55pm

Darth Fanboy wrote:Maybe, Just maybe, qui Gonn wasn't that powerful a Jedi to begin with. He was a Master from experience not because he had all sorts of great power.

But I would like to think he was better than a few jedi wannabes from NJO.

For what i heard Qui Gonn did`nt disappear because he did not accept his death.

Eframepilot · Post by **Eframepilot** » 2003-02-16 10:31pm

If you read the Ep. II novelization, there is a hint about this. When Qui-Gon's voice cries "Anakin! No!", Yoda hears this and is surprised, as he currently believes that it is impossible for a Jedi to maintain any identity after death. Lucas has mentioned in interviews that this will be explained in Episode III. My theory is that the Jedi of Yoda's time don't know about disappearing or returning as blue ghosts, but Qui-Gon somehow managed to incompletely preserve his personality to watch over Anakin. In Ep. III, Yoda will discover (rediscover?) this skill and teach it to Obi-Wan, explaining their disappearances after death and Vader's surprise at Obi's lack of a body.

Darth Fanboy · Post by **Darth Fanboy** » 2003-02-17 06:52am

Then how come Anakin SKywalker does it at the end of RoTJ? He never would have learned this skill.

Boba Fett · Post by **Boba Fett** » 2003-02-17 06:58am

Darth Fanboy wrote:Then how come Anakin SKywalker does it at the end of RoTJ? He never would have learned this skill.

It was stated somewhere that powerful jedis are able to "bound" themselves to another force sensitive being after their death.

Like Yoda, Obi-van and Anakin Skywalker bound themselves to Luke...

Eframepilot · Post by **Eframepilot** » 2003-02-17 11:22am

Boba Fett wrote:
Darth Fanboy wrote:Then how come Anakin SKywalker does it at the end of RoTJ? He never would have learned this skill.

In an early draft of ROTJ, Yoda saved Anakin's spirit after death and purified it. This could still have occured offscreen.

It was stated somewhere that powerful jedis are able to "bound" themselves to another force sensitive being after their death.

Like Yoda, Obi-van and Anakin Skywalker bound themselves to Luke...

Wasn't that just speculation of Luke in HTTE? He thought that Joruus C'baoth might have been driven mad by the spirits of his dead companions on the Outbound Flight Project.

Cal Wright · Post by **Cal Wright** » 2003-02-17 12:06pm

Personally I don't buy the 'Anakin dissappears' part. The Jedi Council on starwars.com says he does, but clearly his body is remaining on the ramp after he dies. Yoda took only seconds to vanish, and Obi Wan was instant. Anakin might have transferred his Force to Luke, but his body stayed. Besides, even through ceremony or honour, why would Luke burn just a suit?

Kelly Antilles · Post by **Kelly Antilles** » 2003-02-17 12:40pm

DG_Cal_Wright wrote: Besides, even through ceremony or honour, why would Luke burn just a suit?

To remove any and all existance of Darth Vader.

Kerneth · Post by **Kerneth** » 2003-02-17 12:57pm

Here's a better question. Why would Darth Vader's suit be flammable? And easily enough to be burned by a simple woodfire?

Kelly Antilles · Post by **Kelly Antilles** » 2003-02-17 12:59pm

Um, it wasn't just a woodfire?

Kerneth · Post by **Kerneth** » 2003-02-17 01:14pm

It's a pile of what appears to be cut logs with Darth Vader's suit or body lying on top of it. The logs are burning in typical burning-log fashion. Maybe some sort of accelerant was used to get them to catch fire faster, but they couldn't've been burning much hotter than a normal fire because Luke was standing fairly close to the woodpile, wearing nothing but a shirt and pants. I guess he could've been using the Force to absorb the heat from the fire, but also Leia walks up and hugs him and doesn't seem discomfited by the proximity of the blaze.

Kelly Antilles · Post by **Kelly Antilles** » 2003-02-17 02:20pm

Kerneth wrote:It's a pile of what appears to be cut logs with Darth Vader's suit or body lying on top of it. The logs are burning in typical burning-log fashion. Maybe some sort of accelerant was used to get them to catch fire faster, but they couldn't've been burning much hotter than a normal fire because Luke was standing fairly close to the woodpile, wearing nothing but a shirt and pants. I guess he could've been using the Force to absorb the heat from the fire, but also Leia walks up and hugs him and doesn't seem discomfited by the proximity of the blaze.

Leia was never at the pyre.

Post by **Kuja** » 2003-02-17 02:29pm

Kerneth wrote:Here's a better question. Why would Darth Vader's suit be flammable? And easily enough to be burned by a simple woodfire?

Why wouldn't it?

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2003-02-17 03:20pm

DG_Cal_Wright wrote:Personally I don't buy the 'Anakin dissappears' part. The Jedi Council on starwars.com says he does, but clearly his body is remaining on the ramp after he dies. Yoda took only seconds to vanish, and Obi Wan was instant. Anakin might have transferred his Force to Luke, but his body stayed. Besides, even through ceremony or honour, why would Luke burn just a suit?

If you don't have good reason to doubt official evidence, then it is correct.

Leave the purism at home please.

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2003-02-17 03:22pm

What it is armored against all sorts of nasty things through Sith alchemical processes and mere design. It can take glancing lightsabre strikes.

Kelly Antilles · Post by **Kelly Antilles** » 2003-02-17 04:12pm

Illuminatus Primus wrote:What it is armored against all sorts of nasty things through Sith alchemical processes and mere design. It can take glancing lightsabre strikes.

That could be a Force shield. Not necessarily the suit. The suit was made to keep Anakin alive.

Darth Garden Gnome · Post by **Darth Garden Gnome** » 2003-02-17 04:19pm

First, SW.com > DC Cal Wright.

Second, I bet ya the dissapearing has something to do with those accursed midichlorians in some way, 'cause thats the only way I can see out of this situation.

OBI-WAN: Well you see Anakin, each lifeforms midichlorians are in some way different, because the Force cannot have more than one version of one being*. So, some peoples midichloians have special traits that allow the being to take on peculiar abilities, such as becoming "one" with the Force.

*I say this because of how the Force fucks with clones in the Thrawn Trilogy. Strangley enough the AOTC clones are immune to that side effect.

But I hope to god it doesn't have anything to do with those annoying Trekified cells of the Jedi. I would be all GRRRRR and stuff.

Darth Yoshi · Post by **Darth Yoshi** » 2003-02-17 04:27pm

Kerneth wrote:It's a pile of what appears to be cut logs with Darth Vader's suit or body lying on top of it. The logs are burning in typical burning-log fashion. Maybe some sort of accelerant was used to get them to catch fire faster, but they couldn't've been burning much hotter than a normal fire because Luke was standing fairly close to the woodpile, wearing nothing but a shirt and pants. I guess he could've been using the Force to absorb the heat from the fire, but also Leia walks up and hugs him and doesn't seem discomfited by the proximity of the blaze.

Watch that scene again. Luke was the only one at the funeral pyre. Afterwards, he returns to the Ewok village, then Leia hugs him.

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2003-02-17 04:31pm

Kelly Antilles wrote:
Illuminatus Primus wrote:What it is armored against all sorts of nasty things through Sith alchemical processes and mere design. It can take glancing lightsabre strikes.
That could be a Force shield. Not necessarily the suit. The suit was made to keep Anakin alive.

Robert Brown's site clearly shows screenshots of the lightsabre contacting and being unable to cut through the armored suit. Furthermore this works in tandem with the most workable theories on lightsabre nature.

Also, the WOTC Dark Side Sourcebook clearly speaks of Vader's suit being "padded battle armor" and enhanced through "Sith alchemical processes."

Post by **Kuja** » 2003-02-17 06:40pm

Illuminatus Primus wrote:Also, the WOTC Dark Side Sourcebook clearly speaks of Vader's suit being "padded battle armor" and enhanced through "Sith alchemical processes."

Maybe it was the padding that was on fire?

Kelly Antilles · Post by **Kelly Antilles** » 2003-02-17 07:49pm

[edit] If only there was a delete button in here.

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