Destruction of Yavin?

[Kythnos]

I encountered this amusing clip about Episode IV:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zzoeEdW-EDQ

Which got me thinking would have the destruction of Yavin have guaranteed the end of the rebels on Yavin 4?
Now I understand that the Deathstar might not have been able to blow up Gas Giant, which has a mass many times, possible hundreds of times greater than an earth size planet, depending on what type of Giant it is.
And Keeping the Deathstars limit of firing only once every 24 hours or so, which the clip removed for humor sake.

I have in my own mind what would happen but I was wondering what everyone else thought.

[Darth Wong]

Remember that the Death Star put about a million times more energy into Alderaan than it needed in order to destroy it. It would have worked, had Tarkin thought of it.

[Connor MacLeod]

We dont know for sure how many "max power" shots the DS would be capable of though as a rule (And still be able to move about, travel through hyperspace, etc.) For all we know the DS may have stranded itself by needing to destroy the moon and gas giant both.

[Captain Seafort]

It may not have needed to destroy both - just shoot Yavin itself and let the debris from the explosion destroy the baseon Yavin IV. Any survivors could be mopped up by TIEs and other support ships.

[Illuminatus Primus]

Yeah but the expansion would've been slow, perhaps slow enough to allow evacuation. And the energy density of the debris field might not be catastrophic for some time, considering the shielding capacity of SW starships.

[Captain Seafort]

Yeah but the expansion would've been slow, perhaps slow enough to allow evacuation. And the energy density of the debris field might not be catastrophic for some time, considering the shielding capacity of SW starships.

A few rough calculations gives the intensity of the blast at Yavin IV's orbit (1.62 million km) as about 3 exajoules/square metre. The total energy to strike the moon would, therefore, be 4E32 J. Unless the moon had a planetary shield, it's not going to survive that.

The speed of the explosion, however, works out to about 100km/s, meaning it would take more than two hours to reach the moon. Regardless of whether that was long enough for the Rebels to evacuate or not, it's four times as long as the Death Star would have taken to orbit the planet to get with firing range, so consider the point conceded.

[Teleros]

Even better then, try encircling the Rebellion - Star Destroyers on one side, and the Death Star blowing Yavin IV to pieces on the other. The Death Star survives unless Luke et al manage to destroy it anyway (would Han & Chewie have survived to intervene?), and the Rebels have 2 hours to evacuate past the Imperial Navy.

[Samuel]

Even better then, try encircling the Rebellion - Star Destroyers on one side, and the Death Star blowing Yavin IV to pieces on the other. The Death Star survives unless Luke et al manage to destroy it anyway (would Han & Chewie have survived to intervene?), and the Rebels have 2 hours to evacuate past the Imperial Navy.

But then Tarkin has to share credit with the rest of the Imperial Fleet instead of single-handedly dealing the Rebellion a crushing blow and showing the worth of the Death Star as an independent vessel.

[Teleros]

Only if he's incapable of playing politics competently: I'd be surprised if he couldn't downplay the role of any Imperial Navy units assigned to "mop up" the remains of the Rebel Alliance. And he could do it too, because any smart Imperial Navy commanders will have realised that, had the Death Star emerged within range of the moon immediately then their ships wouldn't have been needed at all.

[lord Martiya]

Yeah but the expansion would've been slow, perhaps slow enough to allow evacuation. And the energy density of the debris field might not be catastrophic for some time, considering the shielding capacity of SW starships.

A few rough calculations gives the intensity of the blast at Yavin IV's orbit (1.62 million km) as about 3 exajoules/square metre. The total energy to strike the moon would, therefore, be 4E32 J. Unless the moon had a planetary shield, it's not going to survive that.

The speed of the explosion, however, works out to about 100km/s, meaning it would take more than two hours to reach the moon. Regardless of whether that was long enough for the Rebels to evacuate or not, it's four times as long as the Death Star would have taken to orbit the planet to get with firing range, so consider the point conceded.

Uh, but what about the gravitational issues? The destruction of the gas giant would gravitationally affect its moons, I suppose...

[Sarevok]

I thought the Imperials could just bring in a strike force of a few ISDs and other capships. That's all it takes to pulverize any living thing in the entire Yavin star system. The whole point of using the Death Star was a publicity stunt. In real world some people called for nuclear strikes against terrorists. In the fictional world of Star Wars the Imperials actually did go the extra length and did something equivalent by using a planet destroyer to fight pitiful band of interstellar insurgents. Actual combat effectiveness was not probably a concern when the order to use the Death Star came.

[Serafina]

Well, not if Yavin had a planetary shield - those are known to be able to withstand weeks of Star Destroyer bombardment.

[Ender]

Yavin Base had a full suite of defenses powered by equipment stolen off (IIRC) and ISD. OT ITW says it was able to hold off a large battleship that way.

[VT-16]

Yavin's defenses were powered by an ISD's reactor equipment, Echo Base's defenses by a Praetor's reactor equipment. With the difference in power that entailed.

[Wyrm]

Uh, but what about the gravitational issues? The destruction of the gas giant would gravitationally affect its moons, I suppose...

Not until the expanding sphere of debris crosses Yavin IV's orbit (assuming near-spherical expansion—shell theorem again), and by then, the moon's toast.

[Solauren]

Even blowing up Yavin isn't required.

After all, why blow up the moon when you can, once you are at the right angle, just shot through a few thousand kilometers of upper atmosphere and hit the moon?

Sure, you might not hit it at full power, but when dealing with Death Star level firepower, I don't think that really matters.

[Kurgan]

Couldn't the Death Star just get close enough to the moon to slag the surface with its turbolaser batteries?

Of course I don't know what defenses the moon has on its surface, but still, that should deal a lot of damage, right?

I mean, if we're assuming a single ISD can BDZ a planet...

[Illuminatus Primus]

Couldn't the Death Star just get close enough to the moon to slag the surface with its turbolaser batteries?

Of course I don't know what defenses the moon has on its surface, but still, that should deal a lot of damage, right?

I mean, if we're assuming a single ISD can BDZ a planet...

Really ANH would've made more sense if Yavin IV had a planetary shield. In any case, we know it had at least a local shield capable of holding off a large battleship like an Executor.

[Lord Relvenous]

Couldn't the Death Star just get close enough to the moon to slag the surface with its turbolaser batteries?

Of course I don't know what defenses the moon has on its surface, but still, that should deal a lot of damage, right?

I mean, if we're assuming a single ISD can BDZ a planet...

Whats the benefit of this? The discussion in this thread seems to be how the Death Star could have eliminated the Rebel base on Yavin IV in a quicker fashion. It would still have to round Yavin to have LOS to the moon, thus necessitating the same amount of orbit time. Also, the Rebel base did have some defenses, as mentioned above, which would allow it to withstand the bombardment for an indeterminate amount of time. While not likely to be a significant amount of time, it still allows the Rebels at least the same amount of time for evacuation or other activities as a shot from the superlaser would.

Also, Tarkin would be denied the grand statement that the destruction of the Rebel base with the Death Star would have been.

[Darth Raptor]

Only if he's incapable of playing politics competently: I'd be surprised if he couldn't downplay the role of any Imperial Navy units assigned to "mop up" the remains of the Rebel Alliance. And he could do it too, because any smart Imperial Navy commanders will have realised that, had the Death Star emerged within range of the moon immediately then their ships wouldn't have been needed at all.

Fuck that, just scrambling an adequate number of the Death Star's fighter compliment would have made all the difference. But better to have it sunk with all hands than acknowledge that maybe, just MAYBE it might have a relatively minor and easily-corrected-for weakness, eh?

[Kurgan]

Good point, just come out of lightspeed in range of the moon to begin with... duh!

Whats the benefit of this? The discussion in this thread seems to be how the Death Star could have eliminated the Rebel base on Yavin IV in a quicker fashion. It would still have to round Yavin to have LOS to the moon, thus necessitating the same amount of orbit time.

No, I'm imagining a scenario where it uses the Superlaser to destroy the planet Yavin, fly through the debris straight to the moon, and slag the surface with its own turbolasers (and the fighter/ship complement of the station can help too I suppose and prevent the rebels from escaping).

What's wrong with that?

Also, the Rebel base did have some defenses, as mentioned above, which would allow it to withstand the bombardment for an indeterminate amount of time.

Presuming it's as strong as the Hoth shield, but then we have the same problem as with the Hoth scenario. What happens if we turn the crust around the shield into magma?

Can they fly away with the shield still up? Are there any "ion cannons" under the shield strong enough to fend off the DEATH STAR?

While not likely to be a significant amount of time, it still allows the Rebels at least the same amount of time for evacuation or other activities as a shot from the superlaser would.

They get less time to evacuate in my scenario than they would during the movie's scenario, unless they lower the shield and run sometime before the DS gets within turbolaser range (and the ship complement don't stop them).

Also, Tarkin would be denied the grand statement that the destruction of the Rebel base with the Death Star would have been.

Yeah, but who cares about that? This is an alternative scenario for destroying the Rebel base with their known assets and abilities at the time. So Vader pulls rank (or secretly drops something in Tarkin's coffee earlier) and takes over the station, and the other guys go along with it.


Though I laugh to think of another alternative scenario, in which Vader takes a page from genocidal maniac Yoda (TM) in "Star Wars Infinities: A New Hope" and just rams the station into the planet itself (after blowing away Yavin and flying through the debris field of course). Is that shield going to repel a 160 km metal projectile? If it could, just smash right next to it, goodbye Rebel base! (and Vader can bail out in his fighter before the final crash if he doesn't want to die)

Oh, did he just lose the Death Star in the process of eliminating the Rebels once and for all? Well blame it on Tarkin! They can just build another one, unopposed.

[Lord Relvenous]

Your post didn't amke it immediately evident that you were talking about slagging the moon with the turbolasers after destroying Yavin. If you read my post again, I refer to still having to take the time to orbit Yavin.

In the case of destroying Yavin first, yes it would work to use the turbolasers on the base or surrounding area. It would just take a little while longer to destroy the base, as it would take a while to melt the crust, and most likely (depending on the Death Star's armament) longer to bring down the shields.

Note: Is the number of turbolasers on one hemisphere ever given?

[bilateralrope]

Which side of Yavin IV was the rebel base on when the Death Star came round Yavin ?

The side facing the Death Star, or the other side of the moon ?

If it was on the other side, would the extra time required to get the Death Star in position to start shooting the rebel base be enough time for an evacuation ?