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Ok, your mission, if you choose to accept it, is to make a Star Wars Mirror Universe. Now, this can be handled two ways. One, the Star Wars regular universe is the mirror universe and the 'real' universe is a much better place, or two, the more classic option, Star Wars as we know it exists in out universe and you have to create a mirror version of it. Note:Mirror does not mean evil twin, it means things have gone significantly differently, more rough around the edges, and people are a lot less gentle than they are in universe proper.

Choose your era, choose your characters, and tell us how the plot is different.

This thread will not self destruct, unless a mod gets their hands on it.

Just from reading the title, I thought of an idea whereby Palpatine really is a sane, moderate leader who takes drastic measures to eliminate the threat of the power-hungry Jedi (imagine them all being like "Darths and Droids" Qui-Gon, only not as funny). The Empire, rather than being 30 years of oppression, represents rather 30 years of fragile stability that lasts only until the last few remaining Jedi lunatics train a rebel fanatic into a killing machine who assassinates Palpatine and plunges the galaxy back into utter chaos.

I'm not sure it's exactly what you're looking for, though.

Hey, this thread is just for fun. If you want to do that, run with it. There's plenty of material in the SW universe to twist to whatever evil way we'd like.

Sweet. In that case, my idea would have the Jedi Council as manipulative deceivers who use mind tricks willy-nilly, individual Knights as being highly dangerous loose cannons (the kind of guys who really would create a clone army on their own initiative and go knocking down planets), and the Sith as being more along the lines of Ozymandias from Watchmen...they are ruthless, but want to improve the galaxy, and have a strong sense of utilitarian ethics. And the Rebels really are just a bunch of vicious rat bastard terrorists.

Hmm...there might be potential in this. If only because the idea of a master manipulator like Palpatine who doesn't turn out to be Psycho McCrazypants and instead wants to save the galaxy from itself could be compelling.

Hell, this would put Anakin's betrayal in a whole new light.

Another version: The New Republic learns from past mistakes and actually forms a somewhat solid, centralised government that reins in the various loose guns, protects its citizenry, and is actually somewhat competent on a good day. For some reason, Mon Mothma, Fey'lya and the Old Guard of the Rebels (who were basically backed by the robber barons who thought the Empire was too much "Big Government" and interference with States' Rights and Peculiar Institutions) are less significant, putting Leia in charge (if we need to reconcile her EU portayal, less of a starry-eyed idealist for some reason). She draws up a constitution based on the Imperial Charter, rather than the New Republic's carbon copy of the Lucas-era Republic's institutionalised anarchy. Fast forward some twenty years . . .

The Galactic Republic dominates the galaxy, under the protection of a powerful Navy and a reborn brotherhood of Jedi Knights. (Unlike EU Jedi, these are an organisation that, while not being Prequel-era arseholes, is centralised and has some oversight.) Under the stern but just rule of Chancellor Organa, civilisation has prospered in the years since the Galactic Civil War. The only threat to the peace is a small band of radically libertarian rebels, led by an aging Garm Bel Iblis and his Force advisor, Kueller, secretly supported by the insidious traitor Fey'lya.

Xim the Despot won the Hyperspace wars and all the Galaxy bows to the twenty thousand year rule of the Despot, his robots and his descendants. No Republic, No Empire, no Jedi as we know. Dozens of regional powers squabbling European style with hundreds of star-systems each. Robot foundries turning out robotic soldiers for vast proxy wars over single systems where entire semi-sentient fleets clash over systems along the border.

There Mirror universe and alt-history rolled into one.

Otherwise, as a one-off, I had an old fanfic written up on an alternate galaxy in which the Brotherhood of Darkness had been victorious at Ruusan, and Darth Bane purged as a heretic. It led to a quite different set-up in the Civil War era, with the Brotherhood (quasi-Sithian with some Draka elements; I mixed the depictions from the various sources) ruling an oppressive Republic. The main characters would, alternate history to the contrary, still be much the same, though in other roles:

*Palpatine: Leading the fight against the ruthless Brotherhood. Palpatine was a young and idealistic Senator who was finally forced to see that there was no hope for the current system and began to organise armed rebellion. He is not as "uber" here as in the films (much less DE), though he is Force-sensitive with a fair degree of skill and training.

*Vader: A former Master of the Brotherhood who "saw the light" and joined Palpatine's faction as a secret insider on the Dark Council. He was betrayed by his wife and grievously injured in battle with the ruling Lord Ben, barely managing to escape to the Rebels, who could not afford to heal him but were forced to outfit him with crude cybernetic grafts. He looks a lot like Trachta in the Empire comic.

*Ben Kenobi: Evil leader of the Brotherhood of Darkness and Vader's former Master. Mix of Joruus C'baoth and Palpatine, with some of canonical Ben thrown in.

*Luke Skywalker: Up-and-coming young general in the Republic military and a Knight of the Brotherhood. Raised by his mother in the shadow of the Dark Side, he is wholly dedicated to the Republican cause and to hunting down Vader. He is fuelled by his anger and contempt for the weak.

*Leia Skywalker: Manipulative noble and Senator of the Republic, who eventually seeks to supplant Kenobi and his clique. She has elitist views similar to Dooku's from the novelisation and is otherwise your stereotypical villainess.

*Han Solo: Admiral of the Navy who has a complicated relationship with Leia. Most of his spirit was broken years ago when he watched, too fearful to intervene, a Wookiee slave being beaten to death. However, he does retain a spark of idealism, and recently he has begun to spy on the Republic apparatus for the cause of the Rebellion.


So, it was pretty cliché and implausible (it was a long time ago that I wrote it), but this should arguably qualify as a "Mirror Universe" in the stricter sense.

Oh, and Tarkin is a noble leader of men whom Leia torments after his capture by torturing his niece Rivoche . . .

That's pretty much the closest to a mirror universe we have so far. Unless anyone else wants to take a stab at it. One thing it does do is make all the protagonists a few decades older than the antagonists, but there's not much we can do about that.

Episode I, where the Sith Lords are putting down a rebellion on the planet Naboo being led by the Nonprofit Free Trade Federation, who are being backed by the Jedi Knights, thought extinct for 1,000 years. The Sith put down the rebellion at great cost. Darth Jinn and his Apprentice Darth Kenobi defeat the Jedi Knight, a previously unknown Zabrak and in the process of tracking down REbels they come across one Anakin Skywalker, The son of a young slaveowner on Tatooine who loathes machines but has an affinity for animals and nature.

Episode II, "Darth Kenobi" as we will call him tkaes Anakin Akywalker his his apprentice and end up fighting to try and stop the resurgent rebels led by the Freedom Fighter known as Dooku, a Liberal minded Sith who decided to side with the Jedi in the cause for restoring freedom. When the Sith and their army of clones bear down, a secret droid army built on the foundries of Kamino fight back and the Droid Wars begin.

Episode III, During a battle in which Darth Sidious, a leader of the Sith Order, is captured by the Rebel terrorist and freedom fighter known as Greivous, Dooku sacrifices his life to save Anakin Skywalker as the ship begins to burn up in orbit. Sidious is rescued by Kenobi and Skywalker and the Sith attempt to track Greivous. It is all part of a ruse by Palpatine to infiltrate the Sith Order of Darth Windu and Darth Yoda, whose duumvirate have ruled the galaxy with an Iron Hand. Windu and a cadre of Sith go to stop Palpatine from his plot to intriduce democracy but are stopped by Skywalker, who has seen the error of his ways and decided to come around to Palpatine's thinking. The two men turn the Clone Army against the Sith and a new order of peace reigns.


As for a Mirror OT, I believe I am writing one currently and hope to keep my best ideas to myself.

Notes from a Mirror universe fanfic I started on one time while deployed (it gets boring out there)


Divergence takes place a few months into the Clone Wars. Homegrown Separatist terrorist cell (so Sidious had no knowledge of their existence or operations) on Coruscant manages to smuggle some proton torpedoes into a public place (thinking was the unveiling of an Ulic Qel Droma exhibit at a museum) and manage to take out some of the Jedi Council (Yoda, Windu, other big names) and Palpatine in one swoop. Dooku realizes he has just ascended to being the Master of the Dark Lords, but can't carry out the full plan. So instead he uses the Sith contacts to sabotage the Republic war effort and have the Confederacy conquer the galaxy.

Fast forward 20 some years. Dooku is ruler of the galaxy, with a large cadre of Dark Acolytes acting as military commanders/special enforcers. He has never formally declared an Apprentice, leading to much infighting and vying or the position. The "Rebels" are Palpatinst/Republic die hards who view Palpatine as a revered martytr, blame the Jedi for costing them the war (through failure in command and failing to protect Palpatine), and have a dwindling supply of ships and clones to continue their fight (they are more militarized then the original timeline Rebels, use star destroyers and such and clones for more active fighting all around). The Jedi that survived the war were hunted down by the Acolytes and killed or converted. Most of the rest are in hiding, or helping the Rebels despite being hated. From here I planned to run through a different but similar path through the OT and "classic" EU

Kenobi is hiding on Alderaan. His second Padawan (I was thinking Scout originally, though now Ashoka could be swapped in and just make here Anakin's apprentice) tries to convince him to come out of retirement, but when he won't heads off to try and find Anakin. Shift to Tatooine, where a rebellious Leia is part of a wanna be rebel cell that Scout was to make contact with. Leia also thinks they have brought over a Confederate officer into their cell, but Lt Solo was a mole and the group is busted. Hearing Scout was captured, Kenobi goes to Tatooine to try and get her free, but needs Anakin's help. Anakin has been living on the Lars farm since the end of the war under an assumed name. Padme was killed by the Confederates shortly after giving birth to the twins, and per her last request Anakin reigned himself in emotionally and from the Force so he would not go dark. Result is he is a very closed off man from everyone, including his children. Leia reminds him of Padme though, so he shows her some favor. This means Luke desperately seeks his father's approval. Anyway, Kenobi turns up and convinces Anakin to help him free the prisoners, if only to get Leia clear. While the two Jedi and their Rebel contact Chewbacca try to plan it all out, Luke rushes off to try and break Leia free on his own. But the governor already contacted the Confederacy, and reinforcements under the command of Quinlan Vos arrive, take custody of the prisoners, and capture Luke as well, taking him to the battleship in orbit. From here the big climax is a rescue above, the death of one of Dooku's major commanders, destruction of a confederate battle fleet, Han joins the rebels, Luke begins training under his father, and the return of Kenobi and Skywalker to the war against the Confederacy and the start of rebuilding the Jedi order under them (Kenobi as the new Grand Master).

ESB time, in broad stokes again similar to the movie, opening attack against a major rebel base. Sides are split up, with Han, Chewie, and Leia on the run, and the 3 Jedi plus Luke moving on their own to strike against the Confederacy. Romantic subplot of Leia and Han, the Jedi counterattack and go after Gunray and a major confederate shipyard. In Gunray's mansion they find he has kept Padme's head as a trophy. Anakin nearly loses it, only to be talked down by Kenobi and Scout/Ashoka. But while they wee focused on him, Luke loses it and gives in to the dark side. He kills Gunray but is disarmed (literally) and captured by Ventress and taken to Dooku. There he goes over fully to the dark side and gets accepted as the Sith Apprentice. Ends on the down ending of a major rebel defeat, loss of the heroes as a force for "good", and one of their party captured.

ROTJ time, Increasing effectiveness of the Rebels had led to Dooku enacting Palpatine's plan for a Death Star. Thinking Luke is in the Confederacy's hands (not knowing it is willingly) the Jedi lead the strike force. Acolytes aren't happy that Luke is the apprentice instead of one of them, Rebel forces engage the DS defenses (it isn't a trap, just fortuitious timing/"guidance from the Force") as they attempt a coup against Luke and Dooku. Jedi caught in the middle. Pretty similar to ROTJ from there, ends with Luke's redemption, Dooku's death, Destruction of the DS, and I figure Kenobi goes down fighting. Sad and joyous ending at the same time.

Fast forward 5 years. The surviving Acolytes and other big interests splintered the Confederacy, allowing the Imperial/Republic government to grab about half the galaxy by this time. Grievous finally kills off the last of the Acolytes and consolidates the Confederate military under him. Republic counters with Thrawn. Ace in the hole here is that the old Palpanist players have unearthed Mt Tanniss and used the goodies there to rebuild the cloning facilities they need and give them the one off specials they need to level the field. But the intrigue here is that it also risks exposing Palpatine as the original mastermind. So the rebuilt Jedi order under Anakin must navigate the Republic and Imperial factions fighting against each other, fight the Confederates, and deal with the uncovered revelations about Palpatine. Not really sure how to cap it, figure it ends with Thrawn and Grievous dead, most of the Palpatine conspirators exposed and killed, and the galaxy split between the Republic, the Empire, and the Confederacy.

Had only the vaguest ideas after this, was mainly going to be an exploration of an officially apolitical Jedi Order trying to bring the three factions back together in a more practical realization of a galactic government.


Was meant for the Jedi core characters to evoke a kind of Three Musketeers feel. Went with a female for the third one because I couldn't' think of a good, well described (in tone and action) Jedi to use, so if I was going to have to provide the voice I may as well make it a woman to minimize the chance I will make them a Mary Sue.

As far as fan-made Mirror Universes go, Ender, that was quite good work. Do you think you will ever actually develop it into a story? It seems like it might work especially well in an episodic format (hearkening back to the serials that inspired Star Wars in the first place, and also the format originally used for The Three Musketeers).

Publius wrote:As far as fan-made Mirror Universes go, Ender, that was quite good work. Do you think you will ever actually develop it into a story? It seems like it might work especially well in an episodic format (hearkening back to the serials that inspired Star Wars in the first place, and also the format originally used for The Three Musketeers).

Doubtful. I did a LOT of world building and character notes, trying to figure out what the organization of the Confederacy would be like trying to really make the Acolytes sick and twisted guys so as to explore exactly what "going over to the Dark Side" would really mean, even wrote little chunks I wanted to work in because they referenced the OT. But I don't have much interest as a writer nor the extra time on my hands.

If you are interested though, I am willing to grant you and you Publius specifically permission to take this and run with it as you and only you see fit. I know you enjoy writing after all.

Lemme restress that - I would be cool with Publius taking the idea I came up with and putting it into action. Any of you other chucklefucks try it and we can have a banning under the plagiarism/idea theft rules.

So did you just ignore the ROTS novelisation's take on Dooku's character and political vision, or does he have to compromise significantly with his power base in the major industrial conglomerates on a Galactic Confederacy instead of his "Empire of Man" Galactic Empire?

Illuminatus Primus wrote:So did you just ignore the ROTS novelisation's take on Dooku's character and political vision, or does he have to compromise significantly with his power base in the major industrial conglomerates on a Galactic Confederacy instead of his "Empire of Man" Galactic Empire?

Neither really, but if you wish to be very pedantic about it call it the compromise. ROTS novel says he is using the aliens until he can enact his goals and replace them with his Sith Army that will enforce his rulings. That is what is happening in my scenario, it is just delayed because the original plan got thrown away when Palpatine died. Nothing he wanted to do has changed in the slightest, it has just taken longer to do it than he thought it would in the original timeline.

Ender wrote:

Illuminatus Primus wrote:So did you just ignore the ROTS novelisation's take on Dooku's character and political vision, or does he have to compromise significantly with his power base in the major industrial conglomerates on a Galactic Confederacy instead of his "Empire of Man" Galactic Empire?

Neither really, but if you wish to be very pedantic about it call it the compromise. ROTS novel says he is using the aliens until he can enact his goals and replace them with his Sith Army that will enforce his rulings. That is what is happening in my scenario, it is just delayed because the original plan got thrown away when Palpatine died. Nothing he wanted to do has changed in the slightest, it has just taken longer to do it than he thought it would in the original timeline.

So that was a long term goal; he's no Hitlerian radical, more sinister but long-term and gradual - like say, Bismarck, or in-universe, Palpatine himself with his Theocratic Utopia. So I see, his cotarie of Acolytes is the prototype for the Sith Army, and he's advancing his goals. That's very interesting.

Illuminatus Primus wrote:

Ender wrote:

Illuminatus Primus wrote:So did you just ignore the ROTS novelisation's take on Dooku's character and political vision, or does he have to compromise significantly with his power base in the major industrial conglomerates on a Galactic Confederacy instead of his "Empire of Man" Galactic Empire?

Neither really, but if you wish to be very pedantic about it call it the compromise. ROTS novel says he is using the aliens until he can enact his goals and replace them with his Sith Army that will enforce his rulings. That is what is happening in my scenario, it is just delayed because the original plan got thrown away when Palpatine died. Nothing he wanted to do has changed in the slightest, it has just taken longer to do it than he thought it would in the original timeline.

So that was a long term goal; he's no Hitlerian radical, more sinister but long-term and gradual - like say, Bismarck, or in-universe, Palpatine himself with his Theocratic Utopia. So I see, his cotarie of Acolytes is the prototype for the Sith Army, and he's advancing his goals. That's very interesting.

Kinda. Really, the idea was more to reflect that Dooku didn't do it in one go like Palpatine did because Palpatine already had a massive base for change that Dooku didn't and also that Palpatine is just plain BETTER than Dooku.

Ender wrote:

Illuminatus Primus wrote:So that was a long term goal; he's no Hitlerian radical, more sinister but long-term and gradual - like say, Bismarck, or in-universe, Palpatine himself with his Theocratic Utopia. So I see, his cotarie of Acolytes is the prototype for the Sith Army, and he's advancing his goals. That's very interesting.

Kinda. Really, the idea was more to reflect that Dooku didn't do it in one go like Palpatine did because Palpatine already had a massive base for change that Dooku didn't and also that Palpatine is just plain BETTER than Dooku.

And surely, there's the fact that Dooku without Sidious has no auto-win button for the war, especially for the Confederacy. They'll have to slog it out and risk still losing.

FaxModem1 wrote:That's pretty much the closest to a mirror universe we have so far. Unless anyone else wants to take a stab at it. One thing it does do is make all the protagonists a few decades older than the antagonists, but there's not much we can do about that.

Oh, it was not supposed to be run like that; the bad guys were the protagonists. Effectively an uber anti-story.

I briefly toyed, and a wrote a little, on a significantly AU and mildly parody version of The Force Unleashed. By virtue of being based on TFU it fits here, as though is is easily one of the most interesting and portrayed stories in the EU, the events of the game are, at best, very difficult to fit into the chronology of Star Wars. Notionally it was a retelling of most of the plot, albeit one where Starkiller was both part of Palpatine's Inquisition and irredeemably evil, start to finish. Only concerned with his own ambition (and the ambitions of Vader, as Vader is his 'father'), he would never have turned to the light side of the Force, nor would he have been the intrinsically good person that Galen Marek was. Perhaps fortunately, I was unable to develop a satisfying series of alterations to the second 'act' of the game involving the Rebellion, so I dropped it.


As an aside Ender, I think your Confederacy Strike Back is probably the most interesting, even if it is broadly the same; Luke being taken to serve at Dooku's side is an awesome bad end.