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Have anybody other than me noticed that the Clonetrooper military parade at the end of AOTC bears a striking resemblance to the military parade at Adolph Hitler's 50-year birthday??

(I've actually seen footage from that parade at a museum in Copenhagen)

Palpatine even stands on a balcony like Hitler and the soldiers march in similar way!

However, I do not intend to compare Palpatine to Hitler - after all, Palpatine has much more in common with Gaius Julius Caesar than any other dictator. (It's quite obvious)

Of course. Lucas studied Nazi Germany while making both the Indiana Jones trilogy, and while studying to craft the prequels. He closely modeled Palpatine's rise to power on his own view of Hitler's. It will be interesting to see how this continues in Episode III. Good observation.

Master of Ossus wrote:Of course. Lucas studied Nazi Germany while making both the Indiana Jones trilogy, and while studying to craft the prequels. He closely modeled Palpatine's rise to power on his own view of Hitler's. It will be interesting to see how this continues in Episode III. Good observation.

Actually, Palpatine's rise to power is more similar to that of Gaius Julius Caesar than Hitler's. Hitler was actually put in the driving seat by the German arms manufacturers (obviously, since he wanted to start a war, which meant lots of business for the weapons manufacturers) and without them, he wouldn't have gotten anywhere.

However, during Palpatine's rise to power, the majority of corporations actually sided with the seperatists due to his restrictive tax policies (which led to a few corporations such at Kuat Drive Yards and Sienar Fleet Systems acquiring monopolies).

The obvious similarities between Julius Caesar and Palpatine are:

1. Both acquired power during the reign of a crumbling republic.

2. Both were highly militaristic.

3. Both acquired new threats in order to justify their militarism.* (Caesar invaded France - which he could have left alone - while Palpatine secretly supported the seperatist movement for no apparent reason other than having a powerful enemy as justification for the military expansion program)

4. Both tried to portray themselves as defenders of democracy in the early period of their reign, but it soon became all too clear that they were dictators at best.**

5. Both were killed by their closest friends.

I have also noted that Clonetrooper officers are marked out from rank-and-file troopers by helmet decorations, just like Roman centurions.

*This marks one of the fundamental difference between Hitler and Palpatine - Palpatine had to invent a threat for himself, while Hitler already could justify his military expansion program by reminding the citizens of Russian expansionism.

**However, Palpatine declared himself official emperor, while Gaius Julius Caesar never took non-republican titles, although most of them were "emergency" titles which only were awarded to the leader in cases where martial law was declared (but Gaius Julius Caesar, of course, didn't mind!!). These titles were Imperator and Dictator.[/i]

Simon H.Johansen wrote:Have anybody other than me noticed that the Clonetrooper military parade at the end of AOTC bears a striking resemblance to the military parade at Adolph Hitler's 50-year birthday??

(I've actually seen footage from that parade at a museum in Copenhagen)

Palpatine even stands on a balcony like Hitler and the soldiers march in similar way!

However, I do not intend to compare Palpatine to Hitler - after all, Palpatine has much more in common with Gaius Julius Caesar than any other dictator. (It's quite obvious)

I seem to recall that when "A New Hope" aired in the late '70s, some critics felt that some scenes, including the Rebel celebration in the very end, were ripped straight from "Triumph of the Will" with only minor alterations.

Um...did someone just imply that Vader was Palpatines best friend? Palpatine tried to get Vader's son to kill him and take his place, not exactly a"friendly" attitude if you ask me. Maybe he was his best fiend?

Darth was the closes Papy had to a close friend short of Thrawn but then Thrawn was a tool(And he knew it) so besides the Jedi(Who he had killed) Darth(Betrayed him) and his Tools he must have been a lonly old man

Unless of course the Red-Guards were also trained to amuse him

(*Walks away humming Circus Music)

Mr Bean wrote:Darth was the closes Papy had to a close friend short of Thrawn but then Thrawn was a tool(And he knew it) so besides the Jedi(Who he had killed) Darth(Betrayed him) and his Tools he must have been a lonly old man

Unless of course the Red-Guards were also trained to amuse him

(*Walks away humming Circus Music)

You've corrupted my mind forever, you son-of-a-bitch!

Actually, Palpatine's rise to power is more similar to that of Gaius Julius Caesar.

Palpatine was a career politican. Caesar was both a politican and military commander. Caesar was no different from the patricians on Rome.

The obvious similarities between Julius Caesar and Palpatine are:

1. Both acquired power during the reign of a crumbling republic.

Here I can agree, both had power handed to them. They didn't have to seize power.

2. Both were highly militaristic.

Rome had always been highly militaristic. They believed in either conquer or be conquered.

3. Both acquired new threats in order to justify their militarism.* (Caesar invaded France - which he could have left alone - while Palpatine secretly supported the seperatist movement for no apparent reason other than having a powerful enemy as justification for the military expansion program)

Caesar invaded Gaul not France. France did not exist at that time. He was sent to Gaul in order to remove him from power. It was hoped by his rivals that he would fail in Gaul and lose his popularity with the plebeians. However, Caesar was up to the job and his increased his popularity.

4. Both tried to portray themselves as defenders of democracy in the early period of their reign, but it soon became all too clear that they were dictators at best.

Palpatine wanted power only for himself. Caesar used his power to expand the rights of the Plebeian class in Rome, much to the horror of his Senatorial peers.

I have also noted that Clonetrooper officers are marked out from rank-and-file troopers by helmet decorations, just like Roman centurions.

Clonetroopers had markings on their armor to determine rank.


*This marks one of the fundamental difference between Hitler and Palpatine - Palpatine had to invent a threat for himself, while Hitler already could justify his military expansion program by reminding the citizens of Russian expansionism.

You mean communism, not Russian expansion.

You've corrupted my mind forever, you son-of-a-bitch

Did I mention at all times at least one Red Guardsmen had Clown Paint on under the Hood with some tenis balls and a unicylce hidden in his robes at all times?

George Lucas probally intended the scene to look like a Nazi force or something. George Lucas has used symoblism to show the entire Star Wars saga thus far and also he had the main enemies as Nazis in his Indy movies. Using a Nazi parade is an excellent way to show a coming darkness. The Empire is Rising in the Star Wars galaxy and an army led by a crazed man is leading an army to a war.

paladin wrote:Caesar invaded Gaul not France. France did not exist at that time. He was sent to Gaul in order to remove him from power. It was hoped by his rivals that he would fail in Gaul and lose his popularity with the plebeians. However, Caesar was up to the job and his increased his popularity.

....

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Clonetroopers had markings on their armor to determine rank.

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You mean communism, not Russian expansion.

1. Wasn't Gaul just what France was called back then???

2. Clonetroopers do have rank markings other places than their helmets, but the helmet markings were the first ones I noticed.

3. Actually, I have thought about it again and it was Stalin's desire to expand the Soviet Union as well as general communism. (Didn't Stalin believe that it was enough to have one socialist superpower which could expand itself and over time, conquering and subjugating the capitalist nations??)

Simon H.Johansen wrote:

paladin wrote:Caesar invaded Gaul not France. France did not exist at that time. He was sent to Gaul in order to remove him from power. It was hoped by his rivals that he would fail in Gaul and lose his popularity with the plebeians. However, Caesar was up to the job and his increased his popularity.

....

....

Clonetroopers had markings on their armor to determine rank.

....

You mean communism, not Russian expansion.

1. Wasn't Gaul just what France was called back then???

Yes, but the country of France did not exist until the early middle ages.

2. Clonetroopers do have rank markings other places than their helmets, but the helmet markings were the first ones I noticed.

3. Actually, I have thought about it again and it was Stalin's desire to expand the Soviet Union as well as general communism. (Didn't Stalin believe that it was enough to have one socialist superpower which could expand itself and over time, conquering and subjugating the capitalist nations??)

I don't remember anything about Stalin wanted to expanded communism outside of the Soviet Union. I remember Trotsky as the guy that wanted to expand communism worldwide to ensure the survival of the Soviet Union.

Have anybody other than me noticed that the Clonetrooper military parade at the end of AOTC bears a striking resemblance to the military parade at Adolph Hitler's 50-year birthday??

That sort of parade is not unique to Adolph Hitler, y'know. Watch any parade on Veteran's Day, Thanksgiving, or New Year's Day, and you'll see very similar sights.

Know what it is?

It's called "marching".

paladin wrote:I don't remember anything about Stalin wanted to expanded communism outside of the Soviet Union. I remember Trotsky as the guy that wanted to expand communism worldwide to ensure the survival of the Soviet Union.

I thought that the Soviet Union somehow wished to expand its influence upon other nations, hence the communist presence in Vietnam???

Simon H.Johansen wrote:

paladin wrote:I don't remember anything about Stalin wanted to expanded communism outside of the Soviet Union. I remember Trotsky as the guy that wanted to expand communism worldwide to ensure the survival of the Soviet Union.

I thought that the Soviet Union somehow wished to expand its influence upon other nations, hence the communist presence in Vietnam???

So, does that mean all communist parties around the world were started by the Soviet Union? Hardly, many were started independently of the Soviet Union.

In ancient times, the country now known as France was referred to by the Romans as Gallia, generally anglicised as Gaul. It was divided loosely into two major parts, Gallia Cisalpina, Cisalpine Gaul, and Gallia Transalpina, Transalpine Gaul.

Incidentally, if Mr Lucas does intend for the rise to power of the Emperor to be parallel to that of the Leader and Reich Chancellor, he has done a very poor job of it. It is only similar on a superficial level, and even then only to those who lack all but a cursory familiarity with the rise of National-Socialism.

Ho Chi Minh did'nt become a communist because of Soviet manipulation, or soviet intervention. He orignially became a member of a French communist party after one of the groups was the only political body in France who would openly condemn French colonialism. Ho became a communist because nobody else would pay attention to him when he said he wanted help getting France out of his country.

the Viet Minh and later the Viet Cong did'nt start receiving significant Soviet support until it became clear they were a formidable force and that the Americans would inherit the war from France.

Publius wrote:In ancient times, the country now known as France was referred to by the Romans as Gallia, generally anglicised as Gaul. It was divided loosely into two major parts, Gallia Cisalpina, Cisalpine Gaul, and Gallia Transalpina, Transalpine Gaul.

Incidentally, if Mr Lucas does intend for the rise to power of the Emperor to be parallel to that of the Leader and Reich Chancellor, he has done a very poor job of it. It is only similar on a superficial level, and even then only to those who lack all but a cursory familiarity with the rise of National-Socialism.

I agree, but the symbolism is obvious. Lucas relies heavily on visual symbolism, and the connections are clear. While the political machinations might not be identical to the rises of Hitler, Mussolini, Stalin, etc., he clearly wishes us to connect the two. This is reasonable, much as we agree that Anakin is a Christ figure even though he probably will never deliver a sermon on a mount.

Master of Ossus wrote:This is reasonable, much as we agree that Anakin is a Christ figure even though he probably will never deliver a sermon on a mount.

And that's good, cuz he'd look really stupid preaching from the top of a Bantha.

If Lucas wants us to liken Palpatine's rise to power with such figures as Hitler, than his grasp of history is about as firm as KJA's grasp of writing compelling novels.

I'll sum it up briefly...

Palpatine: political mastermind, master manipulator and puppeteer extraordinaire (his manipulation of Anakin in AOTC is masterful, not to mention Amidala in TPM. And we can't forget how quickly he improvises when his original plan to have Amidala die is thwarted). He works himself into a position of power through nothing more than his cleverness, foresight and knowledge of human nature.

Hitler: a complete idiot who utterly ignored basic strategic common sense. He got into power because he said what the German people wanted to hear, not through any clever manipulation. He did nothing more than play upon the existing sentiments of a beaten, down-trodden people. He certainly did NOT trick anybody, he was very vocal about his politics from day one; the Germans knew who they were electing.

Basically, Hitler was an idiot who saw an opportunity and took it (though I think he was all about making Germany 'strong and pure' again as well as getting power). Palpatine MADE his opportunity.