Who did pay the bills of the Jedi Order?

vakundok · Post by **vakundok** » 2003-02-21 01:51pm

The Order got a few dozens of the most modern fighters existed. It seemed to be equal to military budget of small planets (like Naboo). Where did they get the money for the fighters from at the time of an unstable government?

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-02-21 02:05pm

I'm sure the government was footing the bill, unstable or not.

VF5SS · Post by **VF5SS** » 2003-02-21 02:07pm

I betcha they make a killing with their "Ms. Yoda's Precog Hotline."

vakundok · Post by **vakundok** » 2003-02-21 02:09pm

Umm, is it possible that the whole Naboo crisis started because the jedis wanted some new toys?

Joe · Post by **Joe** » 2003-02-21 02:41pm

That makes me think of something. Is the government's funding of the Jedi a violation of the separation of church and state?

vakundok · Post by **vakundok** » 2003-02-21 02:46pm

Durran Korr wrote:That makes me think of something. Is the government's funding of the Jedi a violation of the separation of church and state?

No, in SW the jedi is not a religion. The novelization says that they were once thinkers and philosophers but it was before they had found out the true powers of the force.

Joe · Post by **Joe** » 2003-02-21 02:53pm

vakundok wrote:
Durran Korr wrote:That makes me think of something. Is the government's funding of the Jedi a violation of the separation of church and state?
No, in SW the jedi is not a religion. The novelization says that they were once thinkers and philosophers but it was before they had found out the true powers of the force.

But still, it has religious elements, like the belief in prophecies and such. The NR Jedi Order is clearly not religious, but the OR Jedi Order is a lot more monastic, I think.

Darth Servo · Post by **Darth Servo** » 2003-02-21 02:54pm

The jedi have a tab bigger than Norm's from Cheers.

neoolong · Post by **neoolong** » 2003-02-21 02:57pm

Durran Korr wrote:
vakundok wrote:
Durran Korr wrote:That makes me think of something. Is the government's funding of the Jedi a violation of the separation of church and state?
No, in SW the jedi is not a religion. The novelization says that they were once thinkers and philosophers but it was before they had found out the true powers of the force.
But still, it has religious elements, like the belief in prophecies and such. The NR Jedi Order is clearly not religious, but the OR Jedi Order is a lot more monastic, I think.

Except that they actually do have precognition. Therefore it is distinctly more likely that their prophecies are correct.

Despite it being cloaked in some mysticism, there is nothing truly magical or supernatural about their abilities and it is just like a government run organization that happened to employ aliens that had powers.

vakundok · Post by **vakundok** » 2003-02-21 02:57pm

Since sometimes the jedis have visions of the future prophecies are quite natural aren' t they?

Kerneth · Post by **Kerneth** » 2003-02-21 02:58pm

The Jedi use that neat Force precog to buy lots of winning lottery tickets.

vakundok · Post by **vakundok** » 2003-02-21 03:03pm

Kerneth wrote:The Jedi use that neat Force precog to buy lots of winning lottery tickets.

The sith maybe ...

The jedis are too passive to do this.

neoolong · Post by **neoolong** » 2003-02-21 03:21pm

vakundok wrote:
Kerneth wrote:The Jedi use that neat Force precog to buy lots of winning lottery tickets.
The sith maybe ... The jedis are too passive to do this.

Right just like Qui-Gon didn't cheat during the dice roll.

Enforcer Talen · Post by **Enforcer Talen** » 2003-02-21 03:54pm

heh, they might gamble. or they might be paid in taxes, like a military arm of the republic. guaridans of peace and justice need to eat.

vakundok · Post by **vakundok** » 2003-02-21 03:54pm

neoolong wrote:Right just like Qui-Gon didn't cheat during the dice roll.

It was Anakin's fate to leave Tatooin. But cheating in lottery could cause to collapse that game. However it is interesting that causing loss to unpleasant beings does not tend to cause any moral problem to the jedis. It is also interesting that the jedis tolerated slavery. Maybe justice is only for the citizens of the republic? Ooops!

Joe · Post by **Joe** » 2003-02-21 03:56pm

neoolong wrote:
vakundok wrote:
Kerneth wrote:The Jedi use that neat Force precog to buy lots of winning lottery tickets.
The sith maybe ... The jedis are too passive to do this.
Right just like Qui-Gon didn't cheat during the dice roll.

Well, it's not like he was cheating to shakedown Watto, he was cheating to free an unjustly imprisoned slave.

Joe · Post by **Joe** » 2003-02-21 03:58pm

vakundok wrote:
neoolong wrote:Right just like Qui-Gon didn't cheat during the dice roll.
It was Anakin's fate to leave Tatooin. But cheating in lottery could cause to collapse that game. However it is interesting that causing loss to unpleasant beings does not tend to cause any moral problem to the jedis. It is also interesting that the jedis tolerated slavery. Maybe justice is only for the citizens of the republic? Ooops!

*groan* Tatooine is not within the governed territory of the Old Republic, and two Jedi can't very well liberate an the slaves of an entire planet. Please back up your ridiculous claim that the Jedi tolerated slavery.

vakundok · Post by **vakundok** » 2003-02-21 03:59pm

Enforcer Talen wrote:heh, they might gamble. or they might be paid in taxes, like a military arm of the republic. guaridans of peace and justice need to eat.

Like taxation of trade routes?

vakundok wrote:Umm, is it possible that the whole Naboo crisis started because the jedis wanted some new toys?

Enforcer Talen · Post by **Enforcer Talen** » 2003-02-21 03:59pm

cheating is cheating -shrugs- if you can justify it to save someone, and that it's his destiny, you can justify it so you need money to save people. right?

vakundok · Post by **vakundok** » 2003-02-21 04:04pm

Durran Korr wrote:*groan* Tatooine is not within the governed territory of the Old Republic, and two Jedi can't very well liberate an the slaves of an entire planet. Please back up your ridiculous claim that the Jedi tolerated slavery.

The slavery lasted at least for 9 years, so the Jedi Order had enough time to liberate them. But they did not do it. They tolerated slavery for years. And continued to tolerate after TPM ... So, justice was only for the citizens of the republic.

Joe · Post by **Joe** » 2003-02-21 04:04pm

Enforcer Talen wrote:cheating is cheating -shrugs- if you can justify it to save someone, and that it's his destiny, you can justify it so you need money to save people. right?

Umm, no. Slaves are sentient beings kept forcefully in the possession of their owners, not fairly-owned property. Watto was participating in a institutionalized system of aggression against his slaves, so in that particular matter he does not deserve to be fairly treated.

vakundok · Post by **vakundok** » 2003-02-21 04:07pm

Enforcer Talen wrote:cheating is cheating -shrugs- if you can justify it to save someone, and that it's his destiny, you can justify it so you need money to save people. right?

...or to save themselves from starvation to be able to save other people later. Exactly. But it seems that jedis can justify anything with the force.

Joe · Post by **Joe** » 2003-02-21 04:09pm

vakundok wrote:
Durran Korr wrote:*groan* Tatooine is not within the governed territory of the Old Republic, and two Jedi can't very well liberate an the slaves of an entire planet. Please back up your ridiculous claim that the Jedi tolerated slavery.
The slavery lasted at least for 9 years, so the Jedi Order had enough time to liberate them. But they did not do it. They tolerated slavery for years. And continued to tolerate after TPM ... So, justice was only for the citizens of the republic.

That's quite a leap in logic. That's like saying: Slavery occurs in the Sudan even today and America has not intervened to stop it. So, America supports slavery.

There are probably hundreds of planets in the Outer Rim with slavery. Jedi are scarce resources, not the Universe's policemen. They can't just be deployed anywhere, anytime to correct every single wrong occuring in the Galaxy, when there are people suffering in the Republic who require their assistance. It's not that the Jedi don't consider citizens outside of the Republic worthy of justice, it's just that they CAN'T bring the citizens outside of the Republic justice.

vakundok · Post by **vakundok** » 2003-02-21 04:29pm

Durran Korr wrote:
vakundok wrote:
Durran Korr wrote:*groan* Tatooine is not within the governed territory of the Old Republic, and two Jedi can't very well liberate an the slaves of an entire planet. Please back up your ridiculous claim that the Jedi tolerated slavery.
The slavery lasted at least for 9 years, so the Jedi Order had enough time to liberate them. But they did not do it. They tolerated slavery for years. And continued to tolerate after TPM ... So, justice was only for the citizens of the republic.
That's quite a leap in logic. That's like saying: Slavery occurs in the Sudan even today and America has not intervened to stop it. So, America supports slavery.

There are probably hundreds of planets in the Outer Rim with slavery. Jedi are scarce resources, not the Universe's policemen. They can't just be deployed anywhere, anytime to correct every single wrong occuring in the Galaxy, when there are people suffering in the Republic who require their assistance. It's not that the Jedi don't consider citizens outside of the Republic worthy of justice, it's just that they CAN'T bring the citizens outside of the Republic justice.

That's quite a leap in logic. I wrote tolerating, not supporting. Slavery occurs in the Sudan even today and America has not intervened to stop it. So, America tolerates slavery and american freedom (justice) is only for the citizens of America.

They were able to launch an attack of 200 jedis within hours. What have you said about "can't"? They ARE the republic's policemen. So why not the Universe's policemen?

Joe · Post by **Joe** » 2003-02-21 04:44pm

vakundok wrote:
Durran Korr wrote:
vakundok wrote: The slavery lasted at least for 9 years, so the Jedi Order had enough time to liberate them. But they did not do it. They tolerated slavery for years. And continued to tolerate after TPM ... So, justice was only for the citizens of the republic.
That's quite a leap in logic. That's like saying: Slavery occurs in the Sudan even today and America has not intervened to stop it. So, America supports slavery.

There are probably hundreds of planets in the Outer Rim with slavery. Jedi are scarce resources, not the Universe's policemen. They can't just be deployed anywhere, anytime to correct every single wrong occuring in the Galaxy, when there are people suffering in the Republic who require their assistance. It's not that the Jedi don't consider citizens outside of the Republic worthy of justice, it's just that they CAN'T bring the citizens outside of the Republic justice.
That's quite a leap in logic. I wrote tolerating, not supporting. Slavery occurs in the Sudan even today and America has not intervened to stop it. So, America tolerates slavery and american freedom (justice) is only for the citizens of America.

They were able to launch an attack of 200 jedis within hours. What have you said about "can't"? They ARE the republic's policemen. So why not the Universe's policemen?

That still doesn't follow. Not sending a considerable military force to stop slavery somewhere outside your borders is not the same thing as tolerating the practice of slavery. By that logic, since you are not currently in the Sudan, fighting to liberate slaves, you are in fact tolerating slavery.

Geonosis was within the Republic's borders, turbo, and Geonosis's actions were a direct threat to the welfare of the citizens of the Republic. The Jedi are funded by taxes collected from Republic citizens. They can only concern themselves with the Republic's sphere of influence. Deal with it.

And you do realize that the Universe is a pretty big place for 10,000 Jedi to police, don't you, Mr. Mathematics? Because you're acting like you don't.