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http://forums.starwars.com/thread.jsp?f ... ead=112176

On the issue of wheter all stormies are clones or not.

Yet another idiot.

I can't wait till Wong decides to get into it.

Is that the mod that you're arguing with? I sure as hell hope not.

He's really fucking stupid.

Jesus Christ. I knew there was a reason I didn't go to that board.

Did he at any point bother with addressing that picture?

As far as I can tell, he employs the Darkstar method of simply saying "the facts and logic agree with me, not you" in every single post while ignoring every disproof of this statement.

His idea of "proof" is linking to the first page of an 8 page topic even though individual pages can be specified in the URL.

How the fuck does a joke on a DVD commentary track become the Official Word From On High, anyway, overriding all official desriptions of non-clone Stormtroopers and CANON evidence that Stormtroopers have different heights and voices? By that logic, Darkstar was right to use Lucas' "parallel universe" quote to toss out the EU. Unless and until the OT is edited so all troopers are the same height and have the same voice (at which point I shall give up on Star Wars in disgust), they're not all clones. Period.

Don't tell that to Stravo Imperator. He's dead set on making that joke on the DVD Commentary into gospel. Not that he's completelyw wrong either.

that guy sure is an ass

His Divine Shadow wrote:http://forums.starwars.com/thread.jsp?f ... ead=112176

On the issue of wheter all stormies are clones or not.

My god that man is stupid.

REALLY REALLY REALLY STUPID.

He seems incapable of seeing evidence even when it is suspended infront of him by two gorgeous naked women.

Reason #52^3400 why I don't visit 'official' forums.

Illuminatus Primus wrote:Don't tell that to Stravo Imperator. He's dead set on making that joke on the DVD Commentary into gospel. Not that he's completelyw wrong either.

But seriously...not JUST the joke in the commentray and BTW he does clearly say its a trait cloned in all the storm troopers. BUT he also says during the battle scene...I do beleive during the shooting down of the core ship he says...gee I hope I was clear to the viewers that these are the future stormtroopers.

Trying VERY hard not to get dragged into this again.

Hey I can accept the stormies being by and large a clone unit, like I said Stravo I don't think its completely wrong.

But the idea that they're all clones of Jango is stupid beyond words I can express. GL is truly a brain-bug suffering idiot if he thinks they'd use just fucking Jango clones for everything forever.

The Kaminoan process shown in AOTC is the most inefficient, slow, and expensive cloning process shown to date. I wouldn't be suprised by the time each of those clones hits the transports, they've cost as much as a small ship.

That is definitely something I refuse to swollow, and until all official says that or we have redos of the OT w/ stormies taking off their helmets to reveal Jango's face, I refuse to believe such shit.

Of course, if I refuse to believe that, and ignore it, as most appear to be doing it, then there's little reason to suppose a hardcore belief that they are all clones at all.

From my experiences at TF.net forums and here, generally it seems that a hard "what we see is what is canon" approach has evolved due to the often stupid and extraneous nonofficial GL commentary which has changed and mutated over the years. Also often it seems the PT is part of a different saga than the OT was supposed to be.

Consequently many people now feel only what one can extrapolate from the movies is what is canon. Which is an interesting approach and has validity. Afterall, how else to analyze works of literature?

Durran Korr wrote:Did he at any point bother with addressing that picture?

Yeah, it's already been "addressed" somewhere, and he wouldn't show me where, just pointing to a thread with 700 replies in it and essentially saying "go fish".

Anyway, there seems to be saner people here:
http://forums.starwars.com/thread.jsp?f ... msRange=15

Illuminatus,

I agree with you. GL has dilluted the EU with his own commentary in the past as well as obviously changing his mind years later down the road. The Clone Wars for instance has always been hinted at in one way in the Eu then suddenly GL springs another way in the films.

If he truly expects the EU to be a window to his universe he needs to get his act together and make up his mind. It really is unfair to writers and readers as well if GL is going to pull the rug out from under them years later. I mean, right now, the Thrawn triology is looking rather silly if we fully embrace the AOTC ideas about the Clone wars and Stormtroopers.

I know both you and HDS have really tried your best to shoehorn these things into the EU but the real meat of the matter is that you should not HAVE TO. The EU and the canon should be like hand in glove. Right now, its far from it. More like a Frankenstein monster of spare parts and stitching and thats sad.

BTW, Yes I know you're on my side on this argument (sort of), it's the fanboys that refuse to accept the possibility at all because it violates their precious EU that piss me off.

Stravo, even the canon doesn't fit into ITSELF like hand into glove. GL changes his mind and then has to rewrite his canon after the fact. How can we be surprised that he does the same with the EU? Perhaps we should argue that they should be releasing revised "Special Editions" of EU books

and so it begins anew(see latest attached link)

His Divine Shadow wrote:and so it begins anew(see latest attached link)

Where?

DPDarkPrimus wrote:

His Divine Shadow wrote:and so it begins anew(see latest attached link)

Where?

Latest attached link, which would be a few posts above, but here it is:
http://forums.starwars.com/thread.jsp?f ... msRange=15

weemadando wrote: He seems incapable of seeing evidence even when it is suspended infront of him by two gorgeous naked women.

Dude, to be fair if there were two gorgeous naked women in front of me I wouldn't be paying attention to what they were holding either

This sounds rediculous, but 1,200,000 troopers aren't enough to garrison every planet. Got to go

Well they didn't say that, they said 1,200,000 units, for all weknow a unit can be an Acclamator, giving them 19,200,000,000 clonetroopers, which is still a low figure on the galactic scale.

FYI, HDS, the AoTC novelization confirms that one unit = one trooper. The 1.2 million we see in AoTC are obviously just the beginning of a much larger army; they are designed in secret unaccountably to fight some of the early battles of the Clone Wars, not to be a substantial portion of the Republican Army.

Durran Korr wrote:FYI, HDS, the AoTC novelization confirms that one unit = one trooper

Nope.
To quote Saxton:
"It was an implication, and not a statement of fact. It was from Kenobi's uninformed point of view, not one of the Kaminoans."

So it's really wide open.

His Divine Shadow wrote:

Durran Korr wrote:FYI, HDS, the AoTC novelization confirms that one unit = one trooper

Nope.
To quote Saxton:
"It was an implication, and not a statement of fact. It was from Kenobi's uninformed point of view, not one of the Kaminoans."

Ah, OK, thanks for correcting me. Even so, I think it's pretty obvious that the troops we saw on Kamino are still just the beginning of the Republic's army.