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Presented without comment.

I do wonder if there was an underlying reason she was left out of the creative process of the Clone Wars series.

You did you say presented without comment, and then comment on it in the second of two lines?

I read that they just assigned a different author.

Oh good, an internet petition. Those are taken seriously.

adam_grif wrote:Oh good, an internet petition. Those are taken seriously.

We should start a counter petition to have her work removed from Star Wars Canon.

I wonder which would get more signatures....

adam_grif wrote:Oh good, an internet petition. Those are taken seriously.

Yeah I no, rite?

Personally I like the direction they took for the mandalorians in Clone Wars. Not something I'd expected.

I support this, with the caveat that she write the entire book in Man'doa.

The first IC book is already halfway there, so it's not much of a stretch. And her fans will shut up for the several years it will take to get past all the apostrophes.

General Soontir Fel wrote:I support this, with the caveat that she write the entire book in Man'doa.

The first IC book is already halfway there, so it's not much of a stretch. And her fans will shut up for the several years it will take to get past all the apostrophes.

The scary thing is, she'd probably do it. And her fanboys would gush all over it, spend all the time necesarry to read and understand it then look down upon and mock anyone who sees it for the gibberish it would be.

imperial commando got trashed on tfn. Even that pussy Havac gave it a bad review. So yeah.

Darwin wrote:Presented without comment.

I do wonder if there was an underlying reason she was left out of the creative process of the Clone Wars series.

Are EU authors commonly allowed to advise on movies and the shows?

Darth Yan wrote:imperial commando got trashed on tfn. Even that pussy Havac gave it a bad review. So yeah.

It's been released? Wonder how much Traviss shits on canon with it.

You know, the thing about Travis... I really like some of her ideas. It is just her execution of them that is horrid.

The idea that there is a group out there that hate the 'spoon benders' that aren't Sith is pretty refreshing. I could have even gotten behind The Clone Wars being a series of 'brush fires' if it had been used properly (Like, 'the Clone Wars? Pbbt, that is nothing, you should check the history vids on XYZ War. Now THAT was a galactic fucking war!' or something like that, and it really was propaganda that made it seem so massive)

But man... her execution just fucking sucked. And the way she tried to discredit people in her actual stories is just... man, fucking sleazy.

Darth Yan wrote:imperial commando got trashed on tfn. Even that pussy Havac gave it a bad review. So yeah.

Link?

Vympel wrote:

Darth Yan wrote:imperial commando got trashed on tfn. Even that pussy Havac gave it a bad review. So yeah.

Link?

Review's here about half way down.

Havok wrote:You know, the thing about Travis... I really like some of her ideas. It is just her execution of them that is horrid.

The idea that there is a group out there that hate the 'spoon benders' that aren't Sith is pretty refreshing. I could have even gotten behind The Clone Wars being a series of 'brush fires' if it had been used properly (Like, 'the Clone Wars? Pbbt, that is nothing, you should check the history vids on XYZ War. Now THAT was a galactic fucking war!' or something like that, and it really was propaganda that made it seem so massive)

But man... her execution just fucking sucked. And the way she tried to discredit people in her actual stories is just... man, fucking sleazy.

Yeah the problem is she uses her ideas to promote her personal agenda and gushing fangirl fantasies.
That's just.. bad.

Havok wrote:You know, the thing about Travis... I really like some of her ideas. It is just her execution of them that is horrid.

The idea that there is a group out there that hate the 'spoon benders' that aren't Sith is pretty refreshing. I could have even gotten behind The Clone Wars being a series of 'brush fires' if it had been used properly (Like, 'the Clone Wars? Pbbt, that is nothing, you should check the history vids on XYZ War. Now THAT was a galactic fucking war!' or something like that, and it really was propaganda that made it seem so massive)

But man... her execution just fucking sucked. And the way she tried to discredit people in her actual stories is just... man, fucking sleazy.

Jedi hate? We have it on Holonet and even a cool Darth Maul novel. Hell, its even present in AOTC with the irate drivers scolding the Jedi.
So, that's nothing new.

The Clone wars being a series of brush fires is just plain stupidity. Seriously. You COULD had done it in a sense that the Ruusan conflict was more destructive or Xim had more loss of lives but protraying it as a series of brush fires was simply implausible, given the fact that it comprises a major story arc on its own.

Havok wrote:You know, the thing about Travis... I really like some of her ideas. It is just her execution of them that is horrid.

The idea that there is a group out there that hate the 'spoon benders' that aren't Sith is pretty refreshing. I could have even gotten behind The Clone Wars being a series of 'brush fires' if it had been used properly (Like, 'the Clone Wars? Pbbt, that is nothing, you should check the history vids on XYZ War. Now THAT was a galactic fucking war!' or something like that, and it really was propaganda that made it seem so massive)

But man... her execution just fucking sucked. And the way she tried to discredit people in her actual stories is just... man, fucking sleazy.

The idea of the Clone Wars as "brushfire wars" runs contrary to film canon, established EU, and good sense. How could that possibly be executed in any way but a lame such? Lucas's kiddiefied conflict between faceless automatons and silly mechanical trolls is bad enough as it stands.

Darth Hoth wrote:The idea of the Clone Wars as "brushfire wars" runs contrary to film canon, established EU, and good sense. How could that possibly be executed in any way but a lame such? Lucas's kiddiefied conflict between faceless automatons and silly mechanical trolls is bad enough as it stands.

Except that's not what he said, what he said was that he could understand and might have enjoyed turning the Clone Wars into a fake Brushfire War for Palpatine to garner support through fear mongering. The problem was Karen went about it entirely ass backwards, for example she tried to use the brushfire excuse for claiming only 3 million troops for the Republic, when even a brushfire war on an intragalactic scale is still going to require billions of Soldiers. Instead she should've simply abandoned that number if her intent was brushfire wars all along and had the commandos and Null ARCs forge, embellish, and give false intelligent reports under Palpatine's orders to justify a military buildup. But then she wouldn't have been able to claim moral superiority over those God damned spoonbenders on behalf of the MAN!lylorians. ( )

born in shadow wrote:

Vympel wrote:

Darth Yan wrote:imperial commando got trashed on tfn. Even that pussy Havac gave it a bad review. So yeah.

Link?

Review's here about half way down.

That thread is hilarious to read, especially Havac's review is worthwhile.

Thanas wrote: That thread is hilarious to read, especially Havac's review is worthwhile.

I agree. Havac especially hit the nail on the head with his reference to Twilight. Twilight can basically sum up the reasons why we see so many people who still seem to love her.

If you look at the scoring of this book, its sharply divided by and large. People who score it highly tend not to give alot of reasons, but alot of them seem to center around the "characters and writing" vaguely, which to me seems like they appeal to something in those readers in the same way Twilight appeals to many and is "popular." Those who score it low, like Havac, tend to have to write some very specific, well defined reasons for disliking it (not all mind, but many it seems.)

Given how her fans and supporters have reacted before, this probably represents a bit of a pattern and isn't surprising. I bet if we dug through past reviews and discussions about her a whole rational/irrational pattern could develop.

Overall I'll say what I always say: Traviss CAN write a decent story - if she's got someone (metaphorically speaking) holding her leash. She has a tendency to fill a story with alot of things that she SEEMS to think good (or maybe that her lil clique of fans tell her is good - it may not entirely be her at fault here and she's hardly the first author to be lead astray by the wrong sort of fan.) and these sorts of things both detract from the story and take up valuable space. Her rabid Anti-Jedi views, the Mandalorian fanservice, etc.. are all good examples of that.

On top of that, there's her evident ego. If its not the Fandalorians its apparently (now) other authors like Denning and her snit about the Clone Wars TV series. I can't say I'm shocked that she might try sniping at other authors that way, and Havac's attitude towards "Franchise fiction" is entirely accurate and Traviss seemed not to realize this. Again, she's not the first author to have ego (esp in Star wars) or try to impose their own view on it (nor the last likely), but her manner of doing so and her reactions to others trying to do the same is really what sets her apart and (overall) hampers her writing.

I can still remember reading Hard Contact and having such high hopes for her (as did other people who wrote it) - it still remains one of the best novels out there. And the other novels she's written even as they started getting bad still showed promise if she'd proven omre flexible - but it seems that she was determined to have things her own way or no way.

So while I am happy she's left Star Wars, I'm also a little sad that someone who started out with such high potential turned tou to be someone I consider a horrible writer.

Edit: I also found it amusing that someone contrasted Traviss with Stover, which is an apt analogy. I actually never liked "Traitor" (his first book in SW IIRC) but I've pretty much enjoyed everything else he's written and he's remained on eof my favorite SW writers.

double Edit:

Also Darth Yan is a fucking retard for bringing up SDN on TFN for no good reason, if the person posting on TFN is the same Darth Yan as on here.

Money quotes from that review:

One, the romance. Good god, the romance. I've got nothing against romance. Love to see a little splash of romance; it can do a storyline wonders[...]Seriously, there's not a single woman in the entire story who is not involved with a clone. The only ones who don't get paired up are Kina Ha and Scout. And Arla, but she's insane, so she doesn't count. Next book, though, once she's cured, money says she hooks up with Jusik. Money.

It's an up-armored Twilight. Except, instead of sparkly vampire skin, it's sparkly armor.

Imperial Commando isn't a train; it's a lollercoaster.

I'm fairly uncomfortable with how incredibly racist the main characters are, and how comfortable the book is with that. It's like "Aww, Archie Bunker you hilarious old curmudgeon"-level with its attitude to Kal's and everyone else's rabid hatred of Jedi and Kaminoans, except they're not spouting ignorant, impotent, and not particularly vicious stereotypes; they're out there wearing sheets burning crosses in people's yards. But because they find one or two they think are "Pretty OK for a ______, since they're not like all the other ______s, the bad ______s" they're really not so bad"

Traviss, you really don't need to aggressively retcon every single aspect of the EU about Mandalorians you don't like.

Traviss needs to stop mistaking conversation for plot.

I'm pretty sure suicide isn't supposed to have me rolling my eyes.

Gibad was a terrible decision. Like a month after the declaration of Empire, they're going in and wiping out all life on a dissenting planet with a plague, and then bragging about it on the holonet and how the entire planet had it coming to them because one person from the planet engineered a disease for the Seppies. I mean, I realize it gave us some heavy-handed trauma for Uthan to moan about and never actually use to lead to anything even remotely interesting (can't have that), but this is just stupid. This is the Empire ABY, not twenty years BBY. And, of course, Uthan wants to wipe out Coruscant in revenge, and no one raises a moral peep, because it's okay to eliminate an entire innocent world to get back at Palpatine (oh, wait, "Palps" -- let's leave the internet shorthand on the internet, huh? Gonkdammit), since all those people on it are bastards anyway. I realize Traviss has a very . . . dyspeptic view of humanity, but really, I don't care. It does not improve the book.

Why is Palpatine spouting nonsense about taking over the galaxy to his secretary droid? That's just remarkably stupid. I feel dumber having even considered the idea that such a line could be written.

It's really hard to write books in a fictional universe when you actively reject the entire setting. See, the setting says, you have to train people as Jedi because untrained Force sensitives are dangerous. Traviss says, no, untrained Force sensitives are absolutely harmless, and it's only those pesky Jedi and their training that puts the galaxy in danger. The setting says, the Jedi are good folks who treat the clones well, and only accepted the army because they had to save the Republic. Traviss says, the Jedi are evil exploitative conscienceless bastards who don't care about the clones, and they're all reprehensible, and any Jedi who got shot had it coming to them, and the good Jedi know that. The problem is, she's not interested in the fictional framework; in maintaining the setting. She's not even interested in subverting the setting within the framework of the setting. She's interested in tearing it down wholesale and building a new setting saying how everything you knew was wrong. This is really not an attitude that works in franchise fiction.

I am astounded by how thoroughly bad this book is. There are books I despise more. There are no books more unmitigatedly, thoroughly, and consistently awful, though.

Heh. There's just something about Havac that allows him to be critical yet entertaining at the same time. He's got a real flair for reviews and manages to elucidate the exact reasons why he's critical of something without coming across as being biased.

I think that it probably helped that the "flaws" in Traviss' writing may have been more evident in the LOTF series - writing the RC novel series was more "self contained" and since that dealt more closely with Clones and Mandalorians as a rule, the problems are camoflaged. Whereas in LOTF things were pushed on to a more broader and more general scale, and things like the Fett/Mando fanservice simply stood out as being completely unrelated sideplots.

Edit: Plus it also becomes obvious that while her ideas have potential - I mean even though I finishted Triple Zero I could tell the novel had promise... Betrayal had some promise as well too - it invariably gets swamped in what Traviss clearly wants to write about. Everything else becomes a irrelevancy or an obstacle if anything, and she doesnt seem to take kindly to those obstacles.

I'm rather curious at what the swipe to Denning was. I mean, I know she used various moments in Order 66 to take potshots at the fans (lol there can't possibly be quintillions of droids lol!) but another SW author? Damn.

RogueIce wrote:I'm rather curious at what the swipe to Denning was. I mean, I know she used various moments in Order 66 to take potshots at the fans (lol there can't possibly be quintillions of droids lol!) but another SW author? Damn.

It's here You have to scroll down a bit to find it. Denning comes in later IIRC and comments that its not really a potshot (at least not on his side) but its basically over some LOFT stuff with some nanovirus.

oops. My bad. sorry. That is indeed me. I really did fuck up there.