ISD dimensions

Ender · Post by **Ender** » 2003-02-28 10:01pm

I'm looking for detailed information about star destroyers, as I want to calculate the surface area of one. So perhaps the modelers here can help with some numbers. I already checked SWTC in detail looking for some numbers and weren't seing any.

I know the thing is 1600 meters long and the trench is 30 meters tall. But beyond that, I need help.

Also, does anyone know how thick the viewports on the bridge are? If the bridge towers are the same on the Executo as on an ISD, it should be easy to find, I just lack the ability to isolate frames and count pixels to scale.

Brian Young · Post by **Brian Young** » 2003-02-28 10:44pm

You lack the ability to isolate frames and count pixels to scale? Well, that is my specialty! What images do you want?

Ender · Post by **Ender** » 2003-02-28 10:53pm

Just about anything that would show the viewport. I'm trying to determine how thick the hull is at that point. From there I get the heat flow rate, apply the surface area of the ship and the average thickness (since the bridge is the thinnest, but other thicknesses are given) and convert to watts. That way I can figure out if an SPK can drain away enough energy from an ISD to work.

Incidently, you could probably use the same method backwards to establish an upper limit on power generation for the ships of B5 that were at coriana 6. Figure out the rate they were loosing power at, and you know generation must be less then that. Only trick there would be the cubic assload of calculations you would need to preform to find the surface area. Since an ISD is mostly straight lines, that will be easier, but doing a whitestar...ugh.

Brian Young · Post by **Brian Young** » 2003-03-01 09:59am

I am not confident in this method. The surface area of a ship doesn't determine the rate of energy loss. What if the thing is insulated?

In Curtis' book, note the mechanisms used to release energy absorbed by the shields.
To decide if the SPK could absorb enough power to criple an ISD, you don't really need to worry with surface area, etc. You just need to compare the power generation capabilities of each. I have a "hunch" that ISD peak reactor output is about 10^25 watts. Now, compare this to the ~8000 ships (according to a comic book) ships present at Coriana 6 belonging to the young races. Do the combined 8000 ships have comparable power generation to an ISD?
Does the SPK have cpmparable power generation or capacity?
Note that our sun's power output is just a few times this. Could the SPK drain the power of the sun?

In any event, I suspect that a single ISD would be all the SPK ever wanted to tangle with, and then some.

I would be glad to grab some images for you, or I can make you have the capability of grabbing them yourself. If you are interested in that, e-mail me.
I am slightly unsure of the shots you need though. You are looking for close-ups of ISD bridge windows...?

Ender · Post by **Ender** » 2003-03-01 11:10am

Brian Young wrote:I am not confident in this method. The surface area of a ship doesn't determine the rate of energy loss. What if the thing is insulated?

Actually, yes it does. The heat flow rate is equal to the thermal conductivity times the Area times (temperature hot minus temperature cold) all divided by the thickness of the hull.

The insulation would not be the answer, as that is the thermal conductivity and is measured in watts/meter kelvin or BTU/hr ft F, and you want the heat flow rate which is watts or BTU/hr.

If you use iron as a base hull assumption, you already have the thermal conductivity. If you use absolute zero for the "deep cold", and assume room temperature for the inside of the ship (295.16K) and you find the thickness of a bit of the hull and use Q=[kA(Th-Tc)]/L to get the heat flow rate out for the entire ship. If that is greater then what the ISD can produce, it is going to start wearing down the power levels. If it isn't the sucker won't do a thing. Since we know the whitestar and others were getting drained, that would mean theyr were loosing energy faster then they could replace it, thus their top power generation would be less then their heat flow rate out.

In Curtis' book, note the mechanisms used to release energy absorbed by the shields.

Yes, it released it in the for of neutrinos IIRC. But a ship would not radiate heat like that.

To decide if the SPK could absorb enough power to criple an ISD, you don't really need to worry with surface area, etc. You just need to compare the power generation capabilities of each. I have a "hunch" that ISD peak reactor output is about 10^25 watts. Now, compare this to the ~8000 ships (according to a comic book) ships present at Coriana 6 belonging to the young races. Do the combined 8000 ships have comparable power generation to an ISD?
Does the SPK have cpmparable power generation or capacity?
Note that our sun's power output is just a few times this. Could the SPK drain the power of the sun?

In any event, I suspect that a single ISD would be all the SPK ever wanted to tangle with, and then some.

I agree, but that allows some openness in arguing the unknown abilities of the SPK. I'm looking to take care of this argument for good and allow no arguing.

I would be glad to grab some images for you, or I can make you have the capability of grabbing them yourself. If you are interested in that, e-mail me.
I am slightly unsure of the shots you need though. You are looking for close-ups of ISD bridge windows...?

I was, then I realized that was an unnecessary step. That part would be thin, but it would be only a fraction of the thickness of the overall hull. I could probably safely skip factoring that in and could just average out how much is covered by the meters thick armor and how much is the thinner areas like the trench and the command tower overall.

Brian Young · Post by **Brian Young** » 2003-03-02 03:09am

How about some images of the trench? The overhangs could be indicative of armor thickness...

Ender · Post by **Ender** » 2003-03-02 11:19am

Brian Young wrote:How about some images of the trench? The overhangs could be indicative of armor thickness...

That would be great, thanks.

Brian Young · Post by **Brian Young** » 2003-03-02 02:12pm

I think I understand what you are doing now. But I think it must be pointed out that ISDs output stellar level power. Regardless of how this turns out, the SPK would be attempting to drain power from a ship that likely outputs more power than the SPK does.

Input overload?
http://www.babtech-onthe.net/starwars/ender.zip
This file contains nearly two dozen images. The last 2-3 are images of the SSD bridge tower, but they may still be useful.
I tried to grab any images that provided a view of the armor "overhangs." This includes the trenches, edge of the bridge tower, edge of the docking bay, etc. In some of these, you have to look closely to find the important parts. For example, a couple images show the bridge windows, but on the other side of the windows, we see the trench of another ISD.

Let me know when you have the file, via e-mail if yu don't mind.

Minor points, adding to my earlier comments about the E2ICS. Look at page 16. On the rear upper part of the ship there is a bulb with a description: "Coolant pump circulates a superfluid with enormous heat capacity to moderate the shield matrix during critical power spikes that cannot be radiated away quickly."
Page 22 has a description of "Power systems cooling neutrino radiator grille."
In other words, these ships generate or absorb more power than their hulls can radiate away. The SPK would, in this case, be only absorbing what is radiated by the hull. The ship would be generating more power than the SPK could absorb by default.

Ender · Post by **Ender** » 2003-03-02 02:32pm

Brian Young wrote:I think I understand what you are doing now. But I think it must be pointed out that ISDs output stellar level power. Regardless of how this turns out, the SPK would be attempting to drain power from a ship that likely outputs more power than the SPK does.
Input overload?

Bingo

Let me know when you have the file, via e-mail if yu don't mind.

Done and done