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What if in the Star Wars Revenge of the Sith the following events had happened?

1) When Anakin Skywalker arrives at the Chancellor's office he helps Mace Windu kill Palpatine rather than join him in the Sith.
2) Obi Wan-Kenobi kills Darth Vader on the duel in Mustafar. Who will be Palpatine's new apprentice?
3) Yoda kills Palpatine but Darth Vader kills Obi-Wan Kenobi.
4) Yoda kills Palpatine and Obi-Wan Kenobi kills Darth Vader.

1) When Anakin Skywalker arrives at the Chancellor's office he helps Mace Windu kill Palpatine rather than join him in the Sith.

Assuming Palpatine is actually killed, the security recordings from the Chancellor's office should nicely back the Jedi's stories. The Jedi would take control of the Republic, clean up the Senate, bring the CIS back into line, and the galaxy would be a better place for it.

Anakin's time in the Jedi Order would be over, unless they say it's okay for him and Padme to be married.

2) Obi Wan-Kenobi kills Darth Vader on the duel in Mustafar. Who will be Palpatine's new apprentice?

From the EU, Jerec springs to mind, eventually being replaced by Mara Jade.

I'm sure Palpatine had back-up plans. I wouldn't be surprised if cloning Anakin wasn't one of them.

3) Yoda kills Palpatine but Darth Vader kills Obi-Wan Kenobi.

This one is harder to predict. We might see a Yoda vs Darth Vader fight. Depending on how quickly after the initial duels this happened, Vader might be able to kill Yoda (Yoda was nearly exhausted as it was).

Really, this simply delays the 'Jedi or Sith in charge' question. Ultimately, this would lead to the end of one of the Orders.

4) Yoda kills Palpatine and Obi-Wan Kenobi kills Darth Vader.

Same as #1, but Luke and Leia end up as trainne Jedi. Padme probably goes into exile in self-imposed guilt.

General Mung Beans wrote:What if in the Star Wars Revenge of the Sith the following events had happened?

1) When Anakin Skywalker arrives at the Chancellor's office he helps Mace Windu kill Palpatine rather than join him in the Sith.

The Force is rebalanced, the Jedi restore the Republic, and everyone lives happily ever after.

2) Obi Wan-Kenobi kills Darth Vader on the duel in Mustafar. Who will be Palpatine's new apprentice?

Pick your favorite EU backup Palpatine acolyte. It doesn't really matter. Jerec seems to get a lot of hype.

3) Yoda kills Palpatine but Darth Vader kills Obi-Wan Kenobi.

Now here's an interesting situation. Coruscant would be thrown into chaos, and Anakin probably isn't well-established enough as Lord Vader to win control immediately... not to mention he'll be having a total mental breakdown with Padme dying and Palpatine not there to guide him. I think that Bail Organa and Yoda have a chance of taking control of the Republic, but even if they do, the Sith will live on in a furious, purely nihilistic Darth Vader. The galaxy will probably crumble into anarchy.

4) Yoda kills Palpatine and Obi-Wan Kenobi kills Darth Vader.

Bittersweet ending. Without crazy powerful Darth Vader out to wreck everything, Yoda has a much better chance at restoring the Republic. He probably succeeds.

Palpatine would use Padme's children as apprentices.

Regarding Palpatine's deaths, does anyone know when Byss and the cloning facilities were established?

Ironically if Scenario #2 happens Palpatine has a stronger chance of surviving. Also how would a Galactic Republic not torn by civil war fare against the Yuuzhun Vong?

General Mung Beans wrote: 2) Obi Wan-Kenobi kills Darth Vader on the duel in Mustafar. Who will be Palpatine's new apprentice?

I know I will take hell for this but...Palpatine's new apprentice would be Jar-Jar.

Let loss with the tomatoes!

Eframepilot wrote:3) Yoda kills Palpatine but Darth Vader kills Obi-Wan Kenobi.

Now here's an interesting situation. Coruscant would be thrown into chaos, and Anakin probably isn't well-established enough as Lord Vader to win control immediately... not to mention he'll be having a total mental breakdown with Padme dying and Palpatine not there to guide him. I think that Bail Organa and Yoda have a chance of taking control of the Republic, but even if they do, the Sith will live on in a furious, purely nihilistic Darth Vader. The galaxy will probably crumble into anarchy.[/quote]

This assumes that Yoda can't bring Vader to battle. Given how eager Anakin and Vader are to mix it up, I doubt that. And once Yoda confronts Vader, Vader has no chance, unless he grows stronger.

Solauren wrote: From the EU, Jerec springs to mind, eventually being replaced by Mara Jade.

Mara Jade? Was she ever that important?

Jerec's out, for now, he's out of communication with the Republic throughout the Clone Wars. And Palpatine didn't seem keen on him, later. He valued Jerec's knowledge, but didn't seem to like his ambition (this is when Palpy's decided to rule forever, though, not when he's after an apprentice to kill him).

NecronLord wrote:Mara Jade? Was she ever that important?

Of equal importance to Thrawn and Vader, at least according to Voss Parck. Then again, Parck also claimed that those three combined were a replacement for Kinman Doriana - who, to the best of my knowledge was non-force-sensitive bureaucrat.

Solauren wrote:

1) When Anakin Skywalker arrives at the Chancellor's office he helps Mace Windu kill Palpatine rather than join him in the Sith.

Assuming Palpatine is actually killed, the security recordings from the Chancellor's office should nicely back the Jedi's stories. The Jedi would take control of the Republic, clean up the Senate, bring the CIS back into line, and the galaxy would be a better place for it.

Anakin's time in the Jedi Order would be over, unless they say it's okay for him and Padme to be married..

Thats the one that gets to me.. Its sad to think how one person literally changed the course of events in the Whole Galaxy, plunging it into a purging of the Jedi and into Tyrannical rule that led to the Deaths of countless trillions.

Its even more sad that the movies were handled so poorly and do so little to make the credible case for Anakin turning on Mace and helping Palpatine.

All it would take is for about 5seconds from Anakin while Mace and Palps was struggling, just a quick strike from his saber and the OSW would never have happened.

How would a stabilized Republic (now without Separatist or Sith threats) fare against a Yuuzhun Vong invasion?

General Mung Beans wrote:How would a stabilized Republic (now without Separatist or Sith threats) fare against a Yuuzhun Vong invasion?

It depends on how extensive the Galactic Republic's military actually was. If, as implied by AOTC, they truly have virtually no military beyond the clone army (which will not be kept around, certainly), they will be totally screwed. But if they have a military of equal strength to the New Republic (or construct one by that time), then they should perform far, far better in the war than the New Republic did, as they will be united under a strong government backed by a healthy Jedi Order.

The lesson of NJO here is that demilitarization is bad because you never know when a horde of pagan fundamentalists with organic Lovecraftian technology will descend upon you from the void.

Eframepilot wrote:It depends on how extensive the Galactic Republic's military actually was. If, as implied by AOTC, they truly have virtually no military beyond the clone army (which will not be kept around, certainly), they will be totally screwed. But if they have a military of equal strength to the New Republic (or construct one by that time), then they should perform far, far better in the war than the New Republic did, as they will be united under a strong government backed by a healthy Jedi Order.

The lesson of NJO here is that demilitarization is bad because you never know when a horde of pagan fundamentalists with organic Lovecraftian technology will descend upon you from the void.

And why assume the Clone army will nessissarily be gotten rid of? It won't disappear as soon as the war ends. There will be ex-CIS worlds to occupy, after all.

The Romulan Republic wrote: And why assume the Clone army will nessissarily be gotten rid of? It won't disappear as soon as the war ends. There will be ex-CIS worlds to occupy, after all.

IIRC the clones age at twice the rate of normal humans throughout their lives. So the original batch definitely would not be around fifty years later... not that they would be around anyway if they aged normally. And I really doubt that the Jedi's new government would continue the creation of an ethically dubious clone army for decades after its original purpose no longer exists.

So either the clone army would be replaced by a regular army, or by no army. (Or by droids, though the galaxy in general and the Jedi in particular would be unlikely to embrace a droid army after the events of the Clone Wars.)

I'm going to get slagged for this, but I think Vader can take Yoda. Maybe not a lock, but certainly possible. Remember, at the highest level, one-on-one combat isn't usually based upon a strict linear scale of power. As they say in boxing, styles make fights.

For example, Obi-Wan was twice defeated by Dooku with relative ease. On the other hand, Anakin managed to hold out against Dooku for a respectable period of time in their first fight (despite a vast gulf in experience) and crushed him in their second meeting.

Measured by their performance against a common opponent, you'd expect Vader to rip Obi-Wan a new one. Of course, that's not how it worked out. Obi-Wan fought a long defensive fight, giving ground and letting his aggressive former apprentice expend energy uselessly before baiting him into a trap.

He rope-a-doped him, basically.

Yoda isn't likely to fight Vader the same way. Both times we saw him engage in a lightsaber duel, his fighting style was fast-paced and highly aggressive. To an extent he probably needs to fight that way, using mobility to compensate for a lack of reach. But against Vader, that's probably not a good way to fight.

If he can't simply overwhelm Vader in short order, he's going to find himself in a grueling all-out fight against a larger and physically superior opponent with greater raw strength in the force, who doesn't need to expend that strength just to make a tiny 900 year old body bounce off walls and do constant backflips.

Basically: Old guy, high-energy fighting style. If he doesn't get the young lion out of there quickly, it's going to start going against him.

And even if you do want to treat the whole thing as a linear power scale, well, they both fought Dooku but only Anakin took him out.

DudeGuyMan, there is one thing you overlooked, specifically that Dooku was intentionally trying to isolate Anakin in RotS, to drive him to the Dark Side. So I wonder if he was really trying to fight to win.

But I think your point about Yoda is valid, Yoda's best chance would probably be to pull a Palpatine and just chuck heavy things at Anakin.

That's an interesting point of view.

On the other hand, Yoda is a much more experienced fighter than Anakin.

Crom wrote:DudeGuyMan, there is one thing you overlooked, specifically that Dooku was intentionally trying to isolate Anakin in RotS, to drive him to the Dark Side. So I wonder if he was really trying to fight to win.

If I recall the novelization correctly, Dooku was under the impression that the plan was for him to kill Obi-Wan to drive Anakin toward the dark side, and then surrender himself to Anakin alive. (Which seems like a pretty ridiculous plan, but whatever.) Then he got in there, succeeded in pushing Anakin toward the dark despite failing to finish Obi-Wan, and got a rude surprise as he quickly found himself unable to even hold Anakin to a stalemate. Getting both his hands hacked off was certainly something he would rather have avoided if he had the capability.

The Romulan Republic wrote:That's an interesting point of view.

On the other hand, Yoda is a much more experienced fighter than Anakin.

Ah, but is he really, though? We know he has a fearsome reputation within the Order as a swordsman. But given that they were coming off a thousand years of peace prior to the Clone Wars, that reputation was probably built primarily in sparring.

While I'm sure that Yoda has occasionally seen action during the Clone Wars EU, Anakin was on the front lines for essentially the entire war. (I really don't know how much time the Council spends picking its nose on Coruscant, but it's certainly a lot more time than Anakin, who had barely seen his wife over the years.) Between his two clashes with Dooku and his battles with Ventress, Anakin would also seem to have more experience at to-the-death lightsaber combat.

Anakin may well be the more experiened fighter in this matchup. I think Anakin was a lion in his prime (though lacking guile) and defense/delay/trickery were just about the only way to have a good shot at beating him, and Obi-Wan knew him well enough to know that. I think just about any Jedi or Sith in the canon would be hard pressed to overhwhelm him in a straight slugfest.

DudeGuyMan wrote:But given that they were coming off a thousand years of peace prior to the Clone Wars, that reputation was probably built primarily in sparring.

That's a thousand years without a major galactic war, there were countless skirmishes between the New Sith Wars and The Clone Wars.

Between then we have the Melida/Daan Civil War (>225BBY-44BBY), Kaleesh–Bitthævrian War (>65-60BBY), the Mandalorian Civil War (60-44BBY), the Young-Elders War (44BBY), the Stark Hyperspace War (44BBY), the Kol Huro Unrest (44BBY), the Yinchorri Uprising (33BBY), the Invasion of Naboo (33BBY), the Trade Wars (33BBY), the Occupation of Karthakk (33BBY), and the Huk Wars (>42BBY-22BBY).

What we get to see is only a small part of what has happened, the era of time between the New Sith Wars and just a decade before TPM is pretty much untouched, but it's quite clear that conflicts continued to occur and the Clone Wars was simply the boiling over point.