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In the SW universe, I seem to remember there being a droid somewhere that was capable of using the Force. I think it was a droid that had a Force user's soul or life force inside of it, and I THINK it was in that old novel where Luke Skywalker falls in love with a Force user trapped inside that fleet of automated Dreadnaughts. Does that ring a bell to anyone?

If I'm remembering correctly, any in-universe ideas as to how that's possible?

I think you mean Skippy the Droid, who is non-canon.

Other than that you have the Iron Knights, a group of Shard trained as Jedi. The Shard are silicon-based life and look like crystals, they're plugged into specially made droid bodies in order to move.

The main reason is that using an assembly line to turn out battle droids that can wield the Force would be a scary thought. When one develops a new Force technique, the data is transmitted, and all of them can use it. Plus they can react faster than an organic being.

General Schatten wrote:I think you mean Skippy the Droid, who is non-canon.

It wasn't Skippy the droid. This droid was a dead Jedi whose life energy was imprinted on a protocol droid by his Jedi girlfriend. He could use the Force I'm pretty sure.

The fleet of ships they were in was (I think) the Katana fleet. It was definitely a dreadnaught. There was a short part of the book depicting Darth Vader rounding up Jedi children and killing them, and the ship itself had some Sith energy or something and was trying to attract Force users to it. The ship was on autopilot. Luke's love interest somehow got her life energy stuck into the ship, I forget how. I haven't read the book in years.

I just looked on wookiepedia for the book title but I didn't recognize it. It might not be canon, 'cause it was kinda out there, but I dunno. I just wish I could remember the book and whether or not for sure the droid dude could use the Force.

Any other examples of Force using droids, canon or not?

Punarbhava wrote:

General Schatten wrote:I think you mean Skippy the Droid, who is non-canon.

It wasn't Skippy the droid. This droid was a dead Jedi whose life energy was imprinted on a protocol droid by his Jedi girlfriend. He could use the Force I'm pretty sure.

The fleet of ships they were in was (I think) the Katana fleet. It was definitely a dreadnaught. There was a short part of the book depicting Darth Vader rounding up Jedi children and killing them, and the ship itself had some Sith energy or something and was trying to attract Force users to it. The ship was on autopilot. Luke's love interest somehow got her life energy stuck into the ship, I forget how. I haven't read the book in years.

I just looked on wookiepedia for the book title but I didn't recognize it. It might not be canon, 'cause it was kinda out there, but I dunno. I just wish I could remember the book and whether or not for sure the droid dude could use the Force.

Any other examples of Force using droids, canon or not?

The guy you're thinking of is Nicholas Marr, or something to that effect, and actually one of the plot points in the story was that when his girlfriend transferred his brain patterns into the droid body, he stopped being able to use the Force. He also lost all of his emotions, as I recall.

I think it was Children of the Jedi.

Kuja wrote:The guy you're thinking of is Nicholas Marr, or something to that effect, and actually one of the plot points in the story was that when his girlfriend transferred his brain patterns into the droid body, he stopped being able to use the Force. He also lost all of his emotions, as I recall.

I think it was Children of the Jedi.

I confirm. Nichos Marr, in Children of the Jedi.

4-LOM also has a vision of a possible future where he trains at Luke Skywalker's jedi academy in Tales of the Bouty Hunters.

If what Yoda says is correct, then the Force touches everything, even inanimate objects. The question is, how do inanimate object access the Force? From what we know, organic beings do it through midichlorians. Droids lack blood, therefor lack midichlorians. I would say that there should be no way that a Droid could use the Force.

I'm sure the EU is stupid enough to figure out how they could though.

The Star Forge.

Huge inanimate object, but also a dark side nexus and somehow 'alive'.

"The Star Forge is more than just a space station. In some ways, it is like a living creature. It hungers. And it can feed on the dark side that is within all of us."

Midichlorians aren't necessary in order to use the force, and you don't need to go to the EU to find examples of it. Unless you think Jedi ghosts still have cells...

nightmare wrote:The Star Forge.

Huge inanimate object, but also a dark side nexus and somehow 'alive'.

"The Star Forge is more than just a space station. In some ways, it is like a living creature. It hungers. And it can feed on the dark side that is within all of us."

Yeah nice, but that is just a guy's opinion. And vague as hell. The cave on Dagobah was 'strong with the dark side of the Force' and was a 'domain of evil', that doesn't mean it could use the Force. Places can have a strong 'feeling' one way or another.

Midichlorians aren't necessary in order to use the force, and you don't need to go to the EU to find examples of it. Unless you think Jedi ghosts still have cells...

Don't be stupid. Jedi ghosts are part of the Force. A skill that is learned from decades of meditating while you still can use the Force. And we have also never seen a Force ghost do anything other than just stand around and talk to you. There is no evidence that they can actually still use the Force.

As per usual though... I'm sure the EU has some dumbass examples of Force ghosts doing AWESOME things.

To what I know about the Star Forge, it probably acquired Ffrce-like abilities and semi-sentience due to the fact that the force behaves like a living thing, and most Rakata technology (including early hyper drives) were powered by and operated through the use of the Force, most likely because during the Infinite Empire's reign almost all Rakata were force sensitive. Also, I think I read in one of the Darth Bane books that if one is not powerful enough to control the Star Forge it will consume them or otherwise kill/cripple/maim the over confident user. However, my memory of the book is a bit fuzzy so I may be incorrect.

About normal droids using the force. I may be going off on a hypothetical assumption here, but if a Jedi or Sith who somehow managed to preserve their essence after becoming one with the Force (Such as Yoda, Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon did) and stayed sufficiently powerful enough to use the force as a living master would, then theoretically they could control a droid trough the force and make it seem as if it used the force itself. Although, I wonder if it would be possible for a Sith to use essence transfer to a human replica droid or any sort of force-infused device capable of accessing computers. (A modified holocron perhaps?)

Other than that droids cannot use the force themselves, despite being affected by it, to what I know.

Havok wrote:Yeah nice, but that is just a guy's opinion. And vague as hell. The cave on Dagobah was 'strong with the dark side of the Force' and was a 'domain of evil', that doesn't mean it could use the Force. Places can have a strong 'feeling' one way or another.

Oh yeah, it's just one guy's opinion.

However, it was more than merely a metal construct. Its shadowed cavities were infused with the dark side of Force, endowing it with evil, breathing life.

Don't be stupid. Jedi ghosts are part of the Force. A skill that is learned from decades of meditating while you still can use the Force. And we have also never seen a Force ghost do anything other than just stand around and talk to you. There is no evidence that they can actually still use the Force.

So you think jedi ghosts can be invisible or visible at will, levitate, teleport to other planets, and use telepathy over light years distance by some kind of non-force natural ability, then?

I find that rather amusing. Not to mention it's irrelevant if you think it makes any difference that they learned this while they were still alive. Fact remains: midichlorians and cells aren't necessary in order to use the force.

nightmare wrote:

Havok wrote:Yeah nice, but that is just a guy's opinion. And vague as hell. The cave on Dagobah was 'strong with the dark side of the Force' and was a 'domain of evil', that doesn't mean it could use the Force. Places can have a strong 'feeling' one way or another.

Oh yeah, it's just one guy's opinion.

However, it was more than merely a metal construct. Its shadowed cavities were infused with the dark side of Force, endowing it with evil, breathing life.

Oh so the Star Forge 'breathes'... that's your proof? You have heard of metaphor correct? Unless, of course you would like to point out exactly where the Star Forge's evil lungs are?

Don't be stupid. Jedi ghosts are part of the Force. A skill that is learned from decades of meditating while you still can use the Force. And we have also never seen a Force ghost do anything other than just stand around and talk to you. There is no evidence that they can actually still use the Force.

So you think jedi ghosts can be invisible or visible at will, levitate, teleport to other planets, and use telepathy over light years distance by some kind of non-force natural ability, then?

Whoa, reading comprehension got you down? "Jedi ghosts are part of the Force". All of those feats you just mentioned are covered by that fact. The Force is everywhere, hence as part of the Force, Force ghosts are everywhere. However as I said, we have never seen a Force ghost manipulate physical objects the way a living Force user can.

I find that rather amusing. Not to mention it's irrelevant if you think it makes any difference that they learned this while they were still alive. Fact remains: midichlorians and cells aren't necessary in order to use the force.

They aren't necessary to retain a consciousness in the Force, but they are to actually use it, and to get to a point where you can exist with out them.

Well, I'd like to bring up the EU planets of Yuuzhan'tar and Zenoma Sekot, both of which had force powers, the later to the point that it was able to enter hyperspace. And planets obviously do not have cells for midichlorians to exist in.

Imperial528 wrote:Well, I'd like to bring up the EU planets of Yuuzhan'tar and Zenoma Sekot, both of which had force powers, the later to the point that it was able to enter hyperspace. And planets obviously do not have cells for midichlorians to exist in.

Are you fucking high? You think that a planet that can support life doesn't have living cells on it?

Havok wrote: Oh so the Star Forge 'breathes'... that's your proof? You have heard of metaphor correct? Unless, of course you would like to point out exactly where the Star Forge's evil lungs are?

You might note that this particular metaphor is written from the perspective of an all-knowing author, not a character with limitations, ie, "not just one guy". Since the Star Forge is obviously EU, I might also add Shards and Bedlam spirits as force using inorganic beings. Or how about the simple force detector, by definition a force sensitive piece of machinery.

Havok wrote:Don't be stupid. Jedi ghosts are part of the Force. A skill that is learned from decades of meditating while you still can use the Force. And we have also never seen a Force ghost do anything other than just stand around and talk to you. There is no evidence that they can actually still use the Force.

My reading comprehension is just fine and it tells me you're handwaving now. You're saying there's no evidence that force ghosts can still use the force. Instead, they can go anywhere and talk to anyone because they're now a 'part of the force'. But you don't see any logical problem* with that? I think you do, since you're narrowing it down to 'we have never seen a Force ghost manipulate physical objects the way a living Force user can', which is definitely the case. They lack a body for starters. We can subscribe being visible/invisible at will (and at the right height to stand on the ground) and contacting Luke over distance to telepathy, but if they can use telepathy, what's the reason they couldn't use psychokinesis as well? Just because?

*Here's the logical problem. If a force ghost is now 'part of the force' they're by definition 'using the force' by doing anything. If they're not part of the force, how could they do anything at all without using it since they're now incorporeal?

Havok wrote:They aren't necessary to retain a consciousness in the Force, but they are to actually use it, and to get to a point where you can exist with out them.

Oh, so Qui-Gon Jinn was just being a dick for waiting 14 years after his death before contacting Yoda? As in 'necessary to get to the point where you can exist without them'?

nightmare wrote:

Havok wrote: Oh so the Star Forge 'breathes'... that's your proof? You have heard of metaphor correct? Unless, of course you would like to point out exactly where the Star Forge's evil lungs are?

You might note that this particular metaphor is written from the perspective of an all-knowing author, not a character with limitations, ie, "not just one guy". Since the Star Forge is obviously EU, I might also add Shards and Bedlam spirits as force using inorganic beings. Or how about the simple force detector, by definition a force sensitive piece of machinery.

And all-knowing authors never use metaphor right? Oh wait, you just said he did. (It is also a pretty clear paraphrase of Darth Malak's statement about the Star Forge) So, you still have no proof that the Star Forge is alive? Gotchya.

As for your Force detector... so what. That doesn't mean it can use the Force, which is what we are looking for here. You also seem to be under the impression that the Force isn't some measurable thing... Oops, it is.

Shards are alive and conscious on their own. They communicate by accessing one of the four fundamental forces in the universe, electromagnetism. It isn't really shocking that some of them (what, like three?) would be able to access the Force. We also have no idea what the structural make up of the Shards actually are. They obviously aren't crystals like we know them. They still aren't droids.

As for the Bedlam Spirits, and my we are digging through the obscure at this point aren't we, their abilities, history or pretty much anything about them, was ever explained beyond being able to muck around with matter and time, and it wasn't stated that they were using the Force. Do you think we can skip using the Marvel Comics as sources?

Havok wrote:Don't be stupid. Jedi ghosts are part of the Force. A skill that is learned from decades of meditating while you still can use the Force. And we have also never seen a Force ghost do anything other than just stand around and talk to you. There is no evidence that they can actually still use the Force.

My reading comprehension is just fine and it tells me you're handwaving now. You're saying there's no evidence that force ghosts can still use the force. Instead, they can go anywhere and talk to anyone because they're now a 'part of the force'. But you don't see any logical problem* with that?

Not even a little bit. If Yoda and Obi-Wan are to be believed, the Force...

Yoda wrote:Its energy surrounds us and binds us. Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter. You must feel the Force around you; here, between you, me, the tree, the rock, everywhere, yes. Even between the land and the ship.

Obi-Wan wrote:The Force is what gives a Jedi his power. It's an energy field created by all living things. It surrounds us and penetrates us. It binds the galaxy together.

... it is every where at all times in all things. So if a Jedi has become 'one' with the Force, then he too is everywhere at all times in all things.

I think you do, since you're narrowing it down to 'we have never seen a Force ghost manipulate physical objects the way a living Force user can', which is definitely the case.

So you admit they can not use the Force the way that a live Force wielder can, which has always clearly been the manipulation of physical objects. Thank you.
And that is certainly not narrowing it down, unless you have some other definition of 'using' the Force.

They lack a body for starters. We can subscribe being visible/invisible at will (and at the right height to stand on the ground) and contacting Luke over distance to telepathy, but if they can use telepathy,

What does telepathy have to do with knowing how tall they were and how the ground works?

And no, you are missing the point. When Yoda communicated with Qui-Gon, he described it as the Force talking to him with Qui-Gon's voice. Obi-Wan, Yoda, Qui-Gon don't use telepathy because they don't have to... they are everywhere at all times in the Force. Do you really think the ultimate goal of Qui-Gon was just to be a Jedi with no body?

what's the reason they couldn't use psychokinesis as well? Just because?

It's not my job to prove your assertions. I merely made the observation that we have never seen Force Ghosts interact physically and that all we have seen them do is chat it up. In fact, and this is also as bad as the old Marvel Comics, Wookiepedia says this on Force Ghosts...

Wookieepedia wrote:The Force ghost was the soul and essence of a deceased Force-sensitive who denied the will of the Force upon death, yet was able to interact with the living, albeit not physically.

Emphasis mine, and note that that particular is cited, however, I don't have the Encyclopedia to confirm it is correct.

*Here's the logical problem. If a force ghost is now 'part of the force' they're by definition 'using the force' by doing anything. If they're not part of the force, how could they do anything at all without using it since they're now incorporeal?

That is not my contention however. I have never said that Force ghost have no abilities, I have said that all they can do is hang out and chat us up and what abilities they do have can be attributed to being 'one' with the Force and that they can not 'use' the Force in the same way they did when they were alive, i.e. in a physical manner. You have yet to prove otherwise.

Havok wrote:They aren't necessary to retain a consciousness in the Force, but they are to actually use it, and to get to a point where you can exist with out them.

Oh, so Qui-Gon Jinn was just being a dick for waiting 14 years after his death before contacting Yoda? As in 'necessary to get to the point where you can exist without them'?

Yeah, um... I'm pretty sure Qui-Gon wasn't quite prepared for his death. He is also the only one of the three that did not dematerialize when he died. His was obviously a harder transition, being unprepared and not fully understanding if what to do, and he needed the time between his death and ROTS to master the communication bit. Clearly having a couple of decades of nothing else to do but meditate on what to do has a more desired effect.

I've always thought midichlorians were a being a symptom of the Force, like small parasites that cause no harm to their host and feed off ambient force energies. More powerful Force conduits would unintentionally give off more than weaker ones.

This:

Is a Shard. I just don't see how midichlorians are the cause if these sentient crystal silicon-based beings can use it as well, they have no comparable biology to speak of for midichlorians to live in

I don't think midichlorians are a symptom of the Force, they are just a conduit to whatever the Force is. We also don't know if midichlorians are the only conduit to the Force, just that they are what living creatures have in them and if you have a lot of them in your cells, you are more easily able to manipulate the Force.

And like I said, the Shards communicate/share consciousness through electromagnetism, and if the Force really is something as all pervasive as Obi-Wan and Yoda say, it may even be electromagnetism or maybe some facet of gravity or something all sciencey. It is doubtful though, because if you continue on that train of thought, Shards would have an easier time accessing and manipulating the Force and IIRC, that isn't the case.

Of course like I said, we aren't entirely sure what Shards are made of, and it wouldn't be the first time explorers misnamed something out of ignorance. (Indians? ) They also very well could have some sort of midichlorian type creature in them.

It has also never been my argument that there is no other way to access the Force, simply that from what we know of it, (through midichlorians) Droids and other inanimate objects, can not. Obviously, the only defining factor, if you add in the *barf* EU, is being 'alive'.

Oh, hey this is a good time to point out that this is one more reason to scrap the EU and start over with a proper set of guidelines, now that all the movies are out, so we don't end up with crap like Force wielding rocks.

Havok wrote:

Imperial528 wrote:Well, I'd like to bring up the EU planets of Yuuzhan'tar and Zenoma Sekot, both of which had force powers, the later to the point that it was able to enter hyperspace. And planets obviously do not have cells for midichlorians to exist in.

Are you fucking high? You think that a planet that can support life doesn't have living cells on it?

It's not like the indigenous life is a part of the planet.

What about the book, Truce at Bakura? An alien ship uses a force sensative to drain lifeforce out of its enemies to power fighters and other systems. These things still exist in the force, several times Luke has to 'negotiate' with them to get past certain obstacles.

True, that seems to make sense, but maybe the Force is tied into the lifeforce of a organism. The Star Forge could just be saturated in Dark Side enegry from lots of Sith being around it for so long.

Imperial528 wrote:

Havok wrote:

Imperial528 wrote:Well, I'd like to bring up the EU planets of Yuuzhan'tar and Zenoma Sekot, both of which had force powers, the later to the point that it was able to enter hyperspace. And planets obviously do not have cells for midichlorians to exist in.

Are you fucking high? You think that a planet that can support life doesn't have living cells on it?

It's not like the indigenous life is a part of the planet.

Really? So what happens if there is no life on a planet? It is just a big ball of dirt. So are you really saying that a big ball of dirt can use the Force?

Oh and did you just say that the indigenous life was not part of the planet? Really? You should ask for a dictionary for Xmas.

Night_stalker wrote:True, that seems to make sense, but maybe the Force is tied into the lifeforce of a organism. The Star Forge could just be saturated in Dark Side enegry from lots of Sith being around it for so long.

At least there is some precedent for this in the cave on Dagobah. Regardless of what the EU says the history is, Yoda confirms it is a 'domain of evil' and is 'strong with the dark side of the Force'. I don't think it was from lots of Sith though, just the dark side, which IIRC the Rakta used in some way to power their tech.

Havok wrote:Really? So what happens if there is no life on a planet? It is just a big ball of dirt. So are you really saying that a big ball of dirt can use the Force?

Oh and did you just say that the indigenous life was not part of the planet? Really? You should ask for a dictionary for Xmas.

Last I checked planets were mostly dirt (assuming dirt counting rock, magma, etc.). That and it isn't explained how the two planets can use the force, so for all we know it could be a giant living being, but that seems unlikely. Not to mention that there are numerous worlds with massive concentrations of life in SW and none of them have ever demonstrated force powers. However I am open to the possibility that Yuunzhan'tar somehow became sentient and gained force powers via life forms that grew on it or some other interaction with sentient or non-sentient life, since the only other planet known to be force capable is a product of Yuuzhan'tar.

Also, just because something is indigenous to a planet (and therefore originating from it http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/indigenous or see http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/indigenous) doesn't mean that it is a physical/metaphysical part of it. Since if the native species of Yuuzhan'tar were connected to it to the degree that they are essentially "one" (for lack of a better term) then I doubt the Vong would've survived their home world's death.