Who Really Invented The Death Star/ The Ultimate Weapon?

Dorsk 81 · Post by **Dorsk 81** » 2003-03-04 09:10pm

We all know that the plans/creator of Death Star, or the Ultimate Weapon as it was called, were first unveiled in Episode II (relivant to time lines in the Star Wars galaxy, but not in our own), a creation of the possibly the Trade Federation, based probably on their blockade ships or maybe a creation of the Techno Union Army because of their apparent great grasp of technology (in reference to the "new battle droids"). However Qwi Xux claims to have created the Death Star in the Maw (ref. The Jedi Academy Trilogy).
Now my theory is she was given the plans for the Death Star and simply fine tuned them and turned it into the planet destroying (or "mining equipment" as she beleived) machine and therefore took the credit because she actualy created it, as in over saw its construction, fixed problems etc, things that either the Trade Federation or the Techno Union Army could not have done because they never bulit it.
Are the references to Qwi Xux creating the Death Star just a simple lack of knowledge on Kevin J. Andersons part, unawear that the true creation of the Death Star would be revealed in previous installements? Or could my theory be correct?
My apologise if this issue has already been raised or if I have forgotten something that explains this in the Jedi Academy Trilogy as is has been 3 years at least since I have read the Jedi Academy Trilogy.

phongn · Post by **phongn** » 2003-03-04 09:13pm

AFAIK, Count Dooku gave the plans to Supreme Chancellor Palaptine, where it was later sent to the Maw for prototyping and final development.

Dorsk 81 · Post by **Dorsk 81** » 2003-03-04 09:37pm

So basicaly your saying that my theory is correct, either the Trade Federation or the Techno Union Army designed the Death Star, but Qwi Xux made it work, under the guise of mining equipment?
Incidently, when I talk to friends about who Darth Sidious really is, and I am adiment that it is Palpatine, they refuse to believe me, saying that if Palpatine had been using the Dark Side for well over a decade that the Jedi Council would have been aware of it and most definetly felt it when in his presence and I'm sure Master Yoda and Master Windu had been in countless meetings with the Supreme Chancellor over his decade in office.

phongn · Post by **phongn** » 2003-03-04 09:50pm

Darth Sidious is Supreme Chancellor Palpatine, that much should be obvious.

The Jedi Council's forsight seems to have been lacking as of late; the Dark Side has grown in strength.

Palpatine also appears to be careful when he utilizes his powers, at no time does he use them when anywhere near the Jedi.

Dorsk 81 · Post by **Dorsk 81** » 2003-03-04 10:10pm

Thank you, I tried taking this tactic evening quoting Yoda "blind we are" and they desided that he was only refering to the clones.
Also I don't think that we've actualy seen Darth Sidious use the Dark Side at any time.
Another thing, if Dooku is in league with Sidious, which we know he is, the why did he tell Obi Wan about him? It ocurs to me that Dooku knows what Yodas reaction will be if he was told, that he was just trying to cause dis-trust, but what if Yoda had believed him? It would certianly fit with their abilty to see with the Force diminishing. A very risky ploy on Dookus part, although he most likely did not expect Obi Wan to escape, because he had no knowlegde of the clone army, or so it appeared.
My theory on this, for which I've been laughed at because "it's way too complicated". The theory is that Sidious went to the Trade Federation and had them blockade the planet, this much we know, Sidious/Palpatine knew that Valorum was being corupted and saw this as an opportunity to sezie power, for that was his plan, before he went to the Trade Federation he had the order for the clones placed, which would become his stormtroopers. After he gained office he then sent Dooku out to form the sepratist movment and that gave Palpatine the chance to convince a senator i.e. Jar Jar Binks, to give him emergency powers which he did and then he seized control, throwing clones against droids for years so he could appear to still be a leader for the people and then the Empire was born and Palpatine became Emporer, of course there were very few Jedi to stop him because they'd be killed in Episode II and more in the Clone War. The one thing that still remains to be seen is why and when Anikin turned to the Dark Side, I believe it is entwined with the age old argument, to do what is easy, or what is right and Anikin, already with anger in him from the loss of his mother and the combination of lust and love he felt for Padame.

Howedar · Post by **Howedar** » 2003-03-04 10:41pm

Just because the Geonosians had the basic Death Star concept doesn't mean they'd designed it down to the last bolt.

Dorsk 81 · Post by **Dorsk 81** » 2003-03-04 10:47pm

I don't think the Geonosians have the technonlgy to design the Death Star, it most ceartainly was either the Techno Union or the Trade Federation and I'm not saying either did design the whole thing, just the basic dimensions, practicalities, etc. And I agree with phongn the plans were passed to Palpatine and then when he gained control he had the Maw which Qwi Xux was at and then she created it.

Trytostaydead · Post by **Trytostaydead** » 2003-03-05 01:27am

Look, we all know GL pulled that one out of his ass because he couldn't really give a flying fuck about the EU. I mean, God forbid that someone ELSE decide how the story should go but he'll sanction the EU for the $$ (for any other proof that he was looking more to the $$ than the story.. look at Jar Jar).

Post by **Vympel** » 2003-03-05 01:34am

Trytostaydead wrote:Look, we all know GL pulled that one out of his ass because he couldn't really give a flying fuck about the EU. I mean, God forbid that someone ELSE decide how the story should go but he'll sanction the EU for the $$ (for any other proof that he was looking more to the $$ than the story.. look at Jar Jar).

Considering the person who thought up the whole dumbass Maw thing was Kevin J Anderson, I'm quite happy Lucas did his own version.

I don't think the Geonosians have the technonlgy to design the Death Star, it most ceartainly was either the Techno Union or the Trade Federation and I'm not saying either did design the whole thing, just the basic dimensions, practicalities, etc. And I agree with phongn the plans were passed to Palpatine and then when he gained control he had the Maw which Qwi Xux was at and then she created it.

What makes you say the Geonosians don't have the technology to design the Death Star? AOTC makes it clear that they had the designs. The deleted scences and other material demonstrates they are arms dealers. There's no reason to think that they can't.

Dorsk 81 · Post by **Dorsk 81** » 2003-03-05 01:37am

I just can't see them being able to do it, I may be wrong, but in all honesty, look at the Trade Federation Bolckade ships, the sphyerical desing, they must have had a say.

KhyronTheBackstabber · Post by **KhyronTheBackstabber** » 2003-03-05 01:43am

Vympel wrote:...AOTC makes it clear that they had the designs. The deleted scences and other material demonstrates they are arms dealers. There's no reason to think that they can't.

And who better to come up with the concept for the Ultimate Weapon, then a species whose whole society is based on war, and fighting.

Trytostaydead · Post by **Trytostaydead** » 2003-03-05 01:46am

What I don't like about the whole genosin thing, is that it takes some of the thunder away from the great Imperial war machine. I hope GL makes the imperials kick A LOT of ASS in the last movie.

Kevin J Anderson started his series pretty good in my opinion.. it fell apart halfway through.

Robert Treder · Post by **Robert Treder** » 2003-03-05 01:52am

Dorsk 81 wrote:I just can't see them being able to do it, I may be wrong, but in all honesty, look at the Trade Federation Bolckade ships, the sphyerical desing, they must have had a say.

The fact that both designs are spherical is pretty superficial.

Darth Yoshi · Post by **Darth Yoshi** » 2003-03-05 01:53am

As for the Dooku spilling the beans issue, Palpatine was trying to foment distrust, and set himself up to be the buffer between the Republic and total chaos (giving him power). As such, it would make sense for him to have Dooku reveal the existence of a Sith in the Senate, since if that got out, people are going to be really suspicious of each other. Suspicion gives Palpatine a lever to control the Senate with, so he has greater freedom in his actions.

Cal Wright · Post by **Cal Wright** » 2003-03-05 02:00am

In the novel Rogue Planet, Bevil Lemlisk unveiled his plan to adapt a laser type weapon to a small moon to Tarkin.

BlkbrryTheGreat · Post by **BlkbrryTheGreat** » 2003-03-05 02:12am

I doubt the Trade federation and company would be very worried about their plans being discovered if the plans weren't close enough to completeion to make a viable weapon. The possibility of having well documented plans for a doomsday superweapon are much more likely to cause the panic we see in the Viceroy of the Trade fed. then some Pie in the sky rough idea that isnt anywhere near completion.

phongn · Post by **phongn** » 2003-03-05 02:20am

I could have sworn the outline of the Geonosian Superweapon looked a bit different than the Death Star's - I thought I saw some spires on the large-scale display, but that might just have been a holoartifact.

Dorsk 81 · Post by **Dorsk 81** » 2003-03-05 02:26am

Yes, it is kind of superficial, but the idea that the Trade Federation had something to do with the Death Star has been there since I saw Episode I and the blockade ships, you may be right, it may just be coincedence or it may not.
Don't forget, the books take a back seat to the films, so the idea put forward in Rouge Planet wouldn't matter now that we've seen the plans go to Darth Sidious/Supreme Chancellor Palpatine
Also, the great Imperial war machine is starting up now in the Republic, the Geonosians or the Trade Federation or the Techno Union or whoever designed the Death Star only designed it, it was Qwi Xux working for the Empire who bulit it.

Eframepilot · Post by **Eframepilot** » 2003-03-05 02:29am

DG_Cal_Wright wrote:In the novel Rogue Planet, Bevil Lemlisk unveiled his plan to adapt a laser type weapon to a small moon to Tarkin.

Actually it was Raith Sienar who shows Tarkin a design for a forerunner of a Death Star. But the EU is really just a huge mess on this issue. In chronological sequence:

Sienar shows Tarkin plans for a moon-sized battlestation.

Tarkin gains favor with Palpatine by claiming design as his own.

Somehow the Separatists wind up with the plans (Bevel Lemelisk is described as working with the Geonosians.)

Dooku takes the plans back to his master (which is bizarre, as he presumably got them from Palpatine in the first place.)

Palpatine gives the plans back to Tarkin, (hot potato hot potato...) who sends them (and Lemelisk) to the Maw for completion (though Qwi Xux and the Maw scientists seem to think they came up with the plans themselves).

Tarkin gets the plans from the Maw and constructs the 1st Death Star.

During the Rebel Alliance's first victory, the plans are stolen by:

- Kyle Katarn
- Bria Tharen
- the web of satellites that Keyan Farlander set up (original X-Wing)
- God only knows how many other people

and transmitted to Leia on the Tantive IV. Vader traces the transmission to her ship, probably because it was receiving more coded messages than the Pentagon in the Cuban missile crisis.

Finally they wind up in R2-D2, in a strangely primitive form that doesn't even put the superlaser eye in the right place!

My prediction is that Episode III will confuse the issue even further. I would not be surprised to see construction of the Death Star begin under the auspices of a newly recast Grand Moff Tarkin. If this happens, the Death Star Prototype in the Maw will make even less sense than it does now.

Dorsk 81 · Post by **Dorsk 81** » 2003-03-05 02:46am

This is exactly the problem with the EU (don't get me wrong, I'm a big fan of the books). Imagine that GL changed his mind and wanted to make the last 3 episodes. It couldn't really be done because the EU have already written the future, byt Lucasfilm's position on this is that the books take a back seat to the film, I mean fair enough, he did create the galaxy and is just allowing these authors to play in it, but still he could have found some way to fit the books with the films.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2003-03-05 02:54am

Dorsk 81 wrote:I just can't see them being able to do it, I may be wrong, but in all honesty, look at the Trade Federation Bolckade ships, the sphyerical desing, they must have had a say.

That's the stupidest thing I've ever heard.

neoolong · Post by **neoolong** » 2003-03-05 02:58am

Dorsk 81 wrote:This is exactly the problem with the EU (don't get me wrong, I'm a big fan of the books). Imagine that GL changed his mind and wanted to make the last 3 episodes. It couldn't really be done because the EU have already written the future, byt Lucasfilm's position on this is that the books take a back seat to the film, I mean fair enough, he did create the galaxy and is just allowing these authors to play in it, but still he could have found some way to fit the books with the films.

He does, the EU stuff happens unless contradicted by film. If he went through to make sure everything fit, it wouldn't be his universe anymore. Besides, do you really think he'd go through all the trouble of making sure everything fit? That would mean for AOTC he would have had to go through a bunch of the books to see what color blood Yoda had.

Dorsk 81 · Post by **Dorsk 81** » 2003-03-05 03:01am

I know that the Geonosian leader gave the plans to Dooku, but, to me, it doesn't seem like their style, I just see it as something the Trade Federation or the Techno Union would make. The Trade Federation because of, like I said before, the Cargo/Bolckade ships and the spherical shape (superficial I know!) or the Techno Union because of their grasp of technology.
I know it's not very conving and I'm not trying to convince anyone, but it's how I see it.

His Divine Shadow · Post by **His Divine Shadow** » 2003-03-05 03:03am

DG_Cal_Wright wrote:In the novel Rogue Planet, Bevil Lemlisk unveiled his plan to adapt a laser type weapon to a small moon to Tarkin.

That wasn't Bevel was it? Wasn't it Seinar?

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2003-03-05 03:06am

Dorsk 81 wrote:I know that the Geonosian leader gave the plans to Dooku, but, to me, it doesn't seem like their style, I just see it as something the Trade Federation or the Techno Union would make. The Trade Federation because of, like I said before, the Cargo/Bolckade ships and the spherical shape (superficial I know!) or the Techno Union because of their grasp of technology.
I know it's not very conving and I'm not trying to convince anyone, but it's how I see it.

And it's stupid.