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Here's a question for you...

Of all the novels, the movies, the games, the comics, and everything else, why is it we never see or hear anything about an Imperial Army?

"But there are the stormies, and the 'Grand Army of the Republic'!" You reply (probably with a few insults thrown in there )

Incorrect.

Look at what they do, look at the role they play. A peacekeeping force on Tatooine. Bording an enemy craft. Conducting ground assautls after being dropped off my landing barges from ships and helicopter-type aircraft. The lack of dedicated armor (IE the AAT) in favor of extremely powerful APCs.

The Stormies and Clones are not the Army. They are the Marines.

So where is the Imperial Army?

Ender wrote:The Stormies and Clones are not the Army. They are the Marines.

Becuase they deploy form space? In WWII it was the Army that landed at Normandy from the sea, not the Marines.

Only because the USMC was busy in the Pacific. Had they been available, they would have been first ashore.

Still, the Army of SW has to deploy from space. There is no other option.

I thought the guys in green on endor and death star and the like were the army people, and the stormtroopers were the elite?

(talking OT here) : In none of the movies or novels is there ever a mention of an imperial "army". In fact, their is no mention of a "navy" either. Its all part of the Imperial Starfleet. There is no army apart from Stormtroopers. The guys in green are just higher ranking officers (probably above Captain).

Of course, I'm also of the belief that the Imperial Starfleet is significantly smaller than what other estimate (on the order of hundreds of ships instead of hundreds of thousands). Each sector has its own security force nominally loyal to the Emperor. The dudes on the Tantive IV would fall into this category. That's why the rebels are such a threat. If a system revolts it carries with it a significant miltary force. It -needs- the Death Star to tip the balance in its favor.

Aaron (a devout canonist)

General Veers and his contingent were clearly members of the Imperial Army. Stormtroopers are not just marines. They are also frequently responsible for policing populations, and other functions more frequently reserved for Armies and MP's, rather than Marines. While they have many of the capabilities of Marines, they also have many of the capabilities of other branches of service.

Also, where is the evidence for only few hundred ships instead of thousands?

I think the problem here is that we are trying to force a fictional sci-fi spacefarring military to conform to present day military structure. It is best that we drop this army/marine train of thought and try to think outside the box on this one.

Why would there only be hundreds of ISDs if there are millions of star systems and it is known that an ISD alone could hold one star system? One ISD per star system, and you need reserve ISDs for planetary assault and guarding important installations, and designation to protect flagships.

Master of Ossus wrote:General Veers and his contingent were clearly members of the Imperial Army.

Proof? Keep in mind that General is a rank in the Marines.

Stormtroopers are not just marines. They are also frequently responsible for policing populations, and other functions more frequently reserved for Armies and MP's, rather than Marines.

Something I brought up in my original post. The Marines frequently serve as a peacekeeping force in other countries, IE Kandahar Towers

While they have many of the capabilities of Marines, they also have many of the capabilities of other branches of service.

Yet the combat role they fill is most similar to that of marines.

USAF Ace wrote:

Ender wrote:The Stormies and Clones are not the Army. They are the Marines.

Becuase they deploy form space? In WWII it was the Army that landed at Normandy from the sea, not the Marines.

I base their classification as Marines based on how they are used in combat throughout the series, not just on how they are deployed. For example, when was the last time the Army preformed a Naval Boarding action?

Aaron2 wrote:(talking OT here) : In none of the movies or novels is there ever a mention of an imperial "army". In fact, their is no mention of a "navy" either. Its all part of the Imperial Starfleet. There is no army apart from Stormtroopers. The guys in green are just higher ranking officers (probably above Captain).

Yes, there is a distinct mention of the Imperial Navy. Calling it the Navy is extremely common. Yet it is never called the Starfleet.

Of course, I'm also of the belief that the Imperial Starfleet is significantly smaller than what other estimate (on the order of hundreds of ships instead of hundreds of thousands). Each sector has its own security force nominally loyal to the Emperor. The dudes on the Tantive IV would fall into this category. That's why the rebels are such a threat. If a system revolts it carries with it a significant miltary force. It -needs- the Death Star to tip the balance in its favor.

So lets just ignore all the stuff about the Navy reporting directly to the Emperor, shall we? Yes, there were independent sector fleets, but that ended with the Clone Wars when Palpatine put them all under his centralized control.

Aaron (a devout canonist)

What, for Trek? That would be the only way to explain your views on an absolutly tiny Navy, your incorrect claims about the militaries organization, and you often use of the phrase "Starfleet"

USAF Ace wrote:I think the problem here is that we are trying to force a fictional sci-fi spacefarring military to conform to present day military structure. It is best that we drop this army/marine train of thought and try to think outside the box on this one.

Actually, using standard military comparrison works out pretty well. For example, I can draw several parallels between USN and USAF planes and rebel fightercraft off the top of my head.

And incidently, the lack of a group to fill the army role of holding territory is even odder, considering they have a craft that fills the role of the air force qite well. I remember readingthat the Tie/gt is specifically given to planetary systems to help the army via air support (hence it's carryng missiles)

There is little doubt in my mind that the military roles of the Empire are different to the roles of the U.S. military. For a military that has a completely new different way of warfare, I wouldn't be surprised if such ideas as an army separated from a navy never existed.

Ender wrote:Of all the novels, the movies, the games, the comics, and everything else, why is it we never see or hear anything about an Imperial Army?

The Imperial Army is what you command in Star Wars: Force Commander, but that's a game, so I'm not sure how valid it is.

Ender wrote:

USAF Ace wrote:I think the problem here is that we are trying to force a fictional sci-fi spacefarring military to conform to present day military structure. It is best that we drop this army/marine train of thought and try to think outside the box on this one.

Actually, using standard military comparrison works out pretty well. For example, I can draw several parallels between USN and USAF planes and rebel fightercraft off the top of my head.

And incidently, the lack of a group to fill the army role of holding territory is even odder, considering they have a craft that fills the role of the air force qite well. I remember readingthat the Tie/gt is specifically given to planetary systems to help the army via air support (hence it's carryng missiles)

Yet you are trying to use the fact that you can make comparasons to try and prove the existance of a separate 'Imperial Army' in addition to the 'elite' Stormtroopers. USAF ace is damn right here, there is no real justification for assuming that the Imperial military is any sort of mirror image of the modern US military.

Aaron2 wrote:(talking OT here) : In none of the movies or novels is there ever a mention of an imperial "army". In fact, their is no mention of a "navy" either. Its all part of the Imperial Starfleet. There is no army apart from Stormtroopers. The guys in green are just higher ranking officers (probably above Captain).

Of course, I'm also of the belief that the Imperial Starfleet is significantly smaller than what other estimate (on the order of hundreds of ships instead of hundreds of thousands). Each sector has its own security force nominally loyal to the Emperor. The dudes on the Tantive IV would fall into this category. That's why the rebels are such a threat. If a system revolts it carries with it a significant miltary force. It -needs- the Death Star to tip the balance in its favor.

Aaron (a devout canonist)

And not a very good one. Several novels mention Imperial army troops.

The empire doesn't consider the rebels a threat. At all.

Quite simply, the rebels AREN'T a threat, except for Luke Skywalker, and only he a mild one.

They managed to win out of sheer luck, coupled with arrogance.

Palpatine was fighting a war of image. "Look at the power I command."

He played up the rebel threat so that when he crushed it, soundly, he could show the uselessness of resisting the Empire.

That's what it was through the whole trilogy. It was palpatine fighting a public relations war. And because that's the war he was fighting, he lost.

Quite frankly, a planet destroying weapon is not strategically useful against a guerilla army. It's good for flexing your muscles, and elliminating the few dozen (maybe) planets that vocally protest you, but that's a big waste of money and time.

Palpatine was all about image. The death star wasn't NEEDED, or very important, strategically. But it was useful in his PR war.

End rant.

Actually, there IS a separate Imperial Army, which is mentioned in several novels and described in great detail in the ISB. Stormtroopers are just an elite fighting force separate from both the Army and the Navy. The idea that Stormtroopers are the only ground troops the Empire has is nothing but a brain bug resulting from them being the only troops present in most of the movie scenes.

I think that the answer is under our nose.
Do you remember the tankers manning the AT-STs at Endor?
They were not not probably stormtroopers,because we saw at Hoth that they wear the armor even when they are driving tanks.
They could have been navy personnel but I find this quite unlikely that sailors would man the armor(this would be very star trek style).
So in my opinion they were a separate branch of service that could have been easily the imperial army we are looking for.
Personally I believe that the stormtroopers are used for the majority of the front line duties while the imperial "army" is used mainly for 2nd line duties, such as garrisons on quiet worlds etc.

Darth Yoshi wrote:

Ender wrote:Of all the novels, the movies, the games, the comics, and everything else, why is it we never see or hear anything about an Imperial Army?

The Imperial Army is what you command in Star Wars: Force Commander, but that's a game, so I'm not sure how valid it is.

It's as valid as any other EU source unless it's been tagged as infinities or retroactively tagged like Rebel Assault was.

Ender wrote:Here's a question for you...

Of all the novels, the movies, the games, the comics, and everything else, why is it we never see or hear anything about an Imperial Army?

"But there are the stormies, and the 'Grand Army of the Republic'!" You reply (probably with a few insults thrown in there )

Incorrect.

Look at what they do, look at the role they play. A peacekeeping force on Tatooine. Bording an enemy craft. Conducting ground assautls after being dropped off my landing barges from ships and helicopter-type aircraft. The lack of dedicated armor (IE the AAT) in favor of extremely powerful APCs.

The Stormies and Clones are not the Army. They are the Marines.

So where is the Imperial Army?

That has been cofirmed for some time by official material, do check out the Imperia Sourcebook.

Crazy_Vasey wrote:

Darth Yoshi wrote:

Ender wrote:Of all the novels, the movies, the games, the comics, and everything else, why is it we never see or hear anything about an Imperial Army?

The Imperial Army is what you command in Star Wars: Force Commander, but that's a game, so I'm not sure how valid it is.

It's as valid as any other EU source unless it's been tagged as infinities or retroactively tagged like Rebel Assault was.

???? Games are valid?

SirNitram wrote:

Crazy_Vasey wrote:

Darth Yoshi wrote: The Imperial Army is what you command in Star Wars: Force Commander, but that's a game, so I'm not sure how valid it is.

It's as valid as any other EU source unless it's been tagged as infinities or retroactively tagged like Rebel Assault was.

???? Games are valid?

Supposedly. I don't think they should be but they are according to the many lectures I've had and seen at theforce.net.

Only things in the game's story is valid.
Wich makes Desann exists, and shadowtroopers and so on.