StarDestroyer.Net BBS

I understand that their shields prevented blaster bolts from being reflected back at them. But what was stopping Obi-wan and Qui-Gon from simply tossing them around with force TK attacks as they did to their unshielded counterparts? They then could have continued hacking their way on to the bridge, nabbing Gunray and stoppin the invasion right at the start. Granted, would have been a short movie, but still. Was the shielding somehow effective against the force?

I've always rationalized it that the droidekas would have just gotten back up and started firing again, since they're not fragile like the battle droids, and if only one of the droidekas was knocked out by the force push, the second one could have easily killed the Jedi who did the force push when he wasn't defending himself.

Also - the Droidekas were bound to get reinforced at any time. The entire Jedi plan in TPM was to get to the bridge before reinforcements arrived. It failed.

A Droideka has four automatic blaster weapons. I don't think that's much fun at point-blank or any range.

Destroy Malevolence from the CG Clone Wars shows why Droidekas shouldn't be a problem for a moderately capable Jedi - Obi Wan is confronted with four Droidekas but he just crushes them into balls and uses them as makeshift ramrods to clear a passage for himself through a row of battledroids. After that I concluded it's merely that pesky Jedi Force Power Amnesia that hits them every so often that makes Droidekas a threat to Jedi, nothing else.

Obi-Wan dealt with shielded droideka pretty easy in TCW (force push), but it was a very particular situation where he attacked them first, before they could open fire.

EDIT: ninja'd - but he didn't "crush" them per se, they involuntarily reverted to a semblance of their ball form and he used them as wrecking balls.

When deployed, Droidekas are rather slow and tardy. A Jedi could theoretically force speed around or for jump over them to avoid their fire and try to attack them from behind. Droideka fire is however high in volume and spread all over the place (honestly, they only fire into the general direction of an enemy, watch the hangar scene in TPM) so there's a chance he might get hit anyway.

I always wondered if having the Droidekas deploy on a tripod formation, with a low center of gravity (most of their mass is closer to the floor than the humanoid models) might have had something to do with it... as well as the high volume of fire.

As I see it Droidekas are the Droid Army equivalent of an SAW, they pin enemy troops with high volumes of suppressive fire while their allies advance. Of course, their accuracy is really godawful so they might accidentally hit those advancing troops but it's not like the CIS cares all that much about friendly fire *cough* Seismic Tank *cough*.

At the point in TPM the Jedi in general were glorified cops, keepers of the peace with little battle experience that didn't involve much more than punks with blasters. The Trade Federation was said to have a battle hardened army with the droids (odd, wonder what other wars they've fought). By the Clone Wars cartoon, let alone RotS, the Jedi in general, and Obi Wan and Anakin Skywalker specifically, had racked up a lot of combat experience.

I'm sure in his apprenticeship Obi Wan simple didn't think of folding up the droids using the Force, and while Qui Gon was a capable Master, he may have just never thought about attacking droideka's and figured running was for the best. We know that Qui Gon was a good swordsman, taught by his master Dooku (who was the best duelist in the Order) but that's not the same as facing down two automatic weapons with shields. Chalk it up to Obi Wan's first combat experience, not much learned except running away really fast works, he probably did better the next time.

Well, they were very quick to force push battledroids to the ground though even in TPM, so them simply not thinking of doing something similar to the Droidekas doesn't sound all that plausible.

Yeah, but Force Push, and the resultant domino-effect on the B1s, would be a good non-lethal crowd control technique.

High rate of fire plus confined space plus shield to prevent damage from deflected bolts. Even a Jedi Master stopping long enough to go on the offensive puts down his lightsaber long enough to let a bolt get through. Once they aqre stopped at that point their objective has failed and they move on to survival and reaching Naboo as a greater priority than destroying the droidekas.

By the time of TCW Obi Wan is much more powerful and also has a lot more experience in fighting them.

The jedi are not omniscient and while they can predict the future to some extent, it's not like it's 100% accurate. It's not reasonable to assume force powers work as the user wanted every time and in this case failure will be pretty fatal. Attempting a risky maneuver against an opponent whose capabilities you don't know can lead to disaster really quickly. The jedi we're fighting robots which follow given orders without pause and cannot be reasoned or bargained with, you give them an opening they'll blow you away. They we're fighting for their lives and we can sit in our chairs with perfect 20/20 hindsight and the knowledge neither of them is going to die until the end of the movie. Obi-Wan knocked droids earlier and it worked, this doesn't mean there was no risk involved to the jedi and it doesn't guarantee success if attempted again.
If knocking droids around was the magic win button, maybe the shitty plan at geonosis would have worked a little better.

-Gunhead

Given that Obi Wan even knew that the destroyer droids were named Droideka it's pretty hollow to claim they didn't know what to expect. Also, they force sped/continuinty error'd their way to the back of the Droidekas forcing them to awkwardly turn around, ample time to cut them into pieces.

Err-knowing the name of something does not equal knowing its capabilities. Obi-Wan recognized their shape and knew they were called Droideka. For all we know that's all he knew.
And I can't recall a single time in the PT or what I've seen of the CW showing lightsabres cutting through Droideka shields.
Since their initial plan-curbing the invasion in the bud-had already failed, what, exactly, would have been the point of hanging around to dismantle a handful of effortlessly replaced droids?

Another thing to consider is that the Droideka appearing is meant to convey that things got serious. The ship is on alert now, proper full alert. And while they can cut those two droids down in 2 minutes by that time there might be 20 or even 200 droids coming out of the wood works. And they can't defeat the entire droid compliment on their own.

TheHammer wrote:I understand that their shields prevented blaster bolts from being reflected back at them. But what was stopping Obi-wan and Qui-Gon from simply tossing them around with force TK attacks as they did to their unshielded counterparts? They then could have continued hacking their way on to the bridge, nabbing Gunray and stoppin the invasion right at the start. Granted, would have been a short movie, but still. Was the shielding somehow effective against the force?

Droidekas are not standard battle droids who were cheaply made and poorly mass produced. There is no reason to believe that Droidekas could just be tossed around as you suggest. Nor is there any reason to think that they will simply fall apart as the cheaply made battle droids do.

Also, aside from shoving battle droids and floating food around, we have never seen Jedi or Sith throw around something as large as a battle droid. The only time we see anything that size tossed around in the heat of battle are some boulders when Yoda in AOTC was fighting Dooku or Yoda with the X-Wing in TESB. Neither of those, especially the X-Wing were easy to accomplish.

The best part is that Obi-Wan calls them "destroyers." not Droidekas. :lol

Batman wrote:Err-knowing the name of something does not equal knowing its capabilities. Obi-Wan recognized their shape and knew they were called Droideka. For all we know that's all he knew.
And I can't recall a single time in the PT or what I've seen of the CW showing lightsabres cutting through Droideka shields.
Since their initial plan-curbing the invasion in the bud-had already failed, what, exactly, would have been the point of hanging around to dismantle a handful of effortlessly replaced droids?

The only unexpected thing about the droidekas is that they have shields, which is what Obi Wan comments upon in the fight. Also, the droidekas have to lower their shields to turn around, so it's of no importance if lightsabers could pierce them since when they do so in the movie both Jedi are already behind them and could have slashed them to bits easily instead of running away.

Also, the suggestion is they cut the droidekas down then resume getting through the blast doors, there were no droid reinforcements to be seen anywhere near.

Anguirus wrote:The best part is that Obi-Wan calls them "destroyers." not Droidekas.

In the english version, he calls them Droidekas in the german one. Also what does it matter? It's not like there're any other droids called "destroyers".

I dunno. The evidence and explanations I'm seeing here are only leading me to believe that this was simply another poor plot device. Two droidekas should have been easily destroyable through a variety of means to the Jedi. And they were fairly close to cutting through the door to the bridge. If it were clear to them that they would not be able to cut through the blast doors, then I could see making a strategic retreat, but that did not appear to be the case.

Read what Thanas said and recap the film. The jedi were short on time. Every second wasted destroying the Droidekas could hamper their real mission.

Maybe it was difficulties in concentrating on two separate things at once. They were heavily absorbed in deflecting the blaster bolts from the droidekas back at their shields (which then came back to the Jedi, and so forth). Trying to focus long enough to do a decent force push might have left an opening for getting hit by a blaster bolt.

In the english version, he calls them Droidekas in the german one. Also what does it matter? It's not like there're any other droids called "destroyers".

"Destroyer" sounds like a general type/goal to me, "Droideka" would be the specific model. This is backed up by literature IIRC (such as Survivor's Quest).

The usage is also correct in the film: Obi-Wan just recognizes them as destroyer droids, while the businessmen who purchased them know the brand name. The point is, if this is only valid for a translation of the film I don't think it can be construed to help your argument...not that IMO it did much in the first place.

Guardsman Bass wrote:Maybe it was difficulties in concentrating on two separate things at once. They were heavily absorbed in deflecting the blaster bolts from the droidekas back at their shields (which then came back to the Jedi, and so forth). Trying to focus long enough to do a decent force push might have left an opening for getting hit by a blaster bolt.

This. It's the simplest explanation and doesn't rely on the character's being stupid or on comparing them to depictions in other media which tends to wank out the Jedi compared to what we actually see in the movies.