Imperial Navy Officers

[angrySCORCH62]

Hi, I was wondering what the officer selection process was like for the early Imperial Navy?

On wookieepedia it says that recruits first join the imperial academy for basics before moving to the imperial naval college

then after five years of service a recruit can do officer candidacty training and become a commander of a ship

non-comissioned officers and recent graduates from the Imperial navy academy could go through Imperial Navy officers school which is for prospective captians

but it says that the imperial naval academy (redirected from imperial naval college) that it's the oldest and most prestigious officer training institution

but under ensign it says that in most space navies they were the lowest ranking officer and have supervisor positions yet when crewman-cadets left the imperial academy system the had the rank of Lieutenant

I'm a little confused how it all works does anyone else know who would be willing to share the information

thank you

[Purple]

Perhaps all ranks under Lieutenant are clone troops and human candidates are only used for ranks higher than that?
/speculation

[PainRack]

The naval rankings system for both Rebellion and Imperial has been constantly reworked, including data from WEG and WOTC so.. that will probably explain the confusion.

That and the rankings system themselves have never been fully consistently followed/correlated to real life positions.

Han Solo for example attended the Imperial academy and he was graduated from the officer corp as a lieutant when he met Chewbacca. IIRC, the rank ensign and lieutant are formally seperated, but in real life, ensigns were the rank replaced by 2nd lieutanant.

[Abacus]

Another interesting case would be that of Gilad Pellaeon.

During the Clone Wars he held the rank of captain, and commanded the Acclamator-class assault ship Leveler. Approximately sixteen months into the Clone Wars, Pellaeon commanded a small fleet providing orbital support for Jedi General Ronhar Kim's invasion of Merson. When the Clone Wars came to an end and the Galactic Senate declared Palpatine Emperor and reformed the Republic as the Galactic Empire, Pellaeon continued serving in the new Imperial Navy. In short order, the Imperator-class Star Destroyer was introduced and Pellaeon was assigned to one, the Chimaera, as soon as it was built. He served as part of the command crew and was quickly made executive officer aboard the ship. He would not become Captain of the Chimaera until after the Battle of Endor when the captain of the Chimaera died during combat.

From his example we can see a full ship captain in the Republic arguably down-graded to a lower post on a newer ship in the Imperial Navy.

[Purple]

Is it really a downgrade thou? For all we know the rank structure might be such that the captain of an Acclamator is subordinate in rank to the command crew of an Imperator.

[Abacus]

Is it really a downgrade thou? For all we know the rank structure might be such that the captain of an Acclamator is subordinate in rank to the command crew of an Imperator.

Except they are both classed as Capitol ships...so, I don't know.

[Mr Bean]

Is it really a downgrade thou? For all we know the rank structure might be such that the captain of an Acclamator is subordinate in rank to the command crew of an Imperator.

Except they are both classed as Capitol ships...so, I don't know.

In real life Naval tradition it's quite possible for an O-5 (Commander) to in charge of a smaller sized command (Say a Corvette or Frigate) then take a position as a Cruiser XO before COing that same ship his next tour. Keep in mind Star Destroyers are multi-role vessels, both Carriers and Capital ships so it's quite possible there might be a third rank beyond CO and XO, something in charge of the air wing or perhaps he was assigned as some Admiral's staff aid before going onto command of the ship itself.

[PainRack]

The rank of "Fleet captain" is mentioned in ROTJ novelisation, where they exist on both Imperial and Rebel lines as some form of staff officer.

Its possible that Gilead role on the ISD was that off a staff officer in the Fleet Captain role, although I'm aware that the specific entry detailed him as the ship XO.

As a staff officer that routinely details other ships duties(as seen in ROTJ novelisation), it would make more sense why Imperial warships followed his command to withdraw rather than the official timeline in the SW EU. In the confusion and disruption of the chain of command following the Death Star destruction, he probably represented a legitimate source of command as a staff officer.... this as opposed to an XO taking over the captain of a ISD and then ordering other captains to withdraw.Truce at Bakura sourcebook explictly points out that the radiation and energies from the DS destruction disrupted communications, so any counter-orders might not have been passed through.

[Patroklos]

We also need should remember that the transition from the Republican Navy to the Imperial Navy probably involved a lot of shuffling of officers and a quite a bit of organizational revision. A Captain in the Republican Navy might not be the same as a Captain in the Imperial Navy.

Additionally, there is the rank Captain and the position Captain, or in other words just because you are the Captain of a ship does not mean you are a Captain in rank.

US "CO" ranks by class:
PC - 03 (LT)
MCM - 04 (LCDR)
SSN/LCS/FFG/DDG/LSD/LPD/LCC - 05 (CDR)
SSBN/SSGN/CG/LHA/LHD/CVN - 06 (CAPT)

The US doesn't have the rank Commodore, rather it is a position given to an 06 that designates him as the overall administrative commander of a group of ships.

[Captain Seafort]

As a staff officer that routinely details other ships duties(as seen in ROTJ novelisation), it would make more sense why Imperial warships followed his command to withdraw rather than the official timeline in the SW EU. In the confusion and disruption of the chain of command following the Death Star destruction, he probably represented a legitimate source of command as a staff officer.... this as opposed to an XO taking over the captain of a ISD and then ordering other captains to withdraw.Truce at Bakura sourcebook explictly points out that the radiation and energies from the DS destruction disrupted communications, so any counter-orders might not have been passed through.

Another possibility is that Pellaeon, although XO, was a post-Captain, especially as senior officers (Daala, Thrawn, Pellaeon himself in SotP/VotF tend to act as CO of their flagships much more often than they should). As such, with at least three, possibly four, admirals out of action (Piet, Harsk, Chimaera's CO and probably one on the comm ship), Teshik en rout to Eleemosynary, and with ample seniority over the rest of the post Captains in the fleet (he'd held his rank for how many decades?) he might have been the senior officer present, with authority to order the withdrawal.

[PainRack]

Seniority by rank? Any navy guys here to help support or rebut this?

[Patroklos]

Seniority within the same rank in the American Navy is handed by lineal number. Every officer is given a number based on when they commisioned and a few other metrics and this follows you throughtout your career and is used to flesh out senority amongst same grade officers. Some things can modify your number like promotion history and court matials.

Here are the details:

http://ausn.org/LinkClick.aspx?filetick ... tabid=1190

[Thanas]

Alternatively, him having been assigned to Death Squadron might automatically have conferred a higher authority upon him than his rank (similar as to how in the real life Roman Empire, officers of the elite forces, although of the same or lower nominal rank, still held superior authority over forces of lower status etc). For example, an officer in the legion had authority over auxillary officers to some degree, so the Empire might simply follow such a model where being a Commander or XO in special forces like the Death Squadron has more authority than the Captain or even Admiral of sector fleet forces present at Endor.

The German General Staff had a similar system, btw.

[Patroklos]

Lets not forget that the Empire was also a maze of political connections and intrigues. Multiple royal families (to include the Emereror's own houshold) and large corporate interests of core world constituencies probably gave many low ranking officers far more influence than other nominally higher ranking officers.

I don't know if there was time to consider this in the chaos of Endor or what Gilead has in regards to those types of connections, but some officers probably "knew their place" when up against some of their well connected peers.

It may simply be that he had some gravitas to work with given his career, senior officers might have rightfully been able to assume command but saw an officer take charge and get shit done and decided survival was more important at that moment than showing off their brass at that particular moment.

[Thanas]

Another option which has been discussed in the past iirc is that Pellaeon was command officer of the ship next in line to the flagship (the vice-flagship ?) and that command authority is also based on the ship that issues them instead of the officer in charge of that ship (similarly as to how in the age of sail it did not matter who on board the Admiral's ship was actually still alive and giving the orders, the fleet still followed them until it became known the Admiral had died).

[Eternal_Freedom]

I'd swear I recall a quote from one of the Zahn novels were Pellaeon mentally describes the retreat, saying that even though it was an order from him, it was given credence as it came from Chimera, as Thanas said.

Might have been Heir to the Empire, but I'm not certain.

As for vice-flagship, more likely it's the flagship of the designated vice-CINC, like Vice-Admiral Collingwood at Trafalgar. So not so much the next command ship, but the ship that's wearing the vice-CINC's flag.

[Mr Bean]

This is correct in Naval tradition orders coming from the Admirals ship are considered to be from the Admiral. Where the Admiral's flag is, is the Admiral's ship and unless specifically noted otherwise all orders coming from that ship are from the Admiral. When Thrawn died and Pellaeon gave that order it still would have been tagged as being from the Admiral until Pellaeon passed the word Thrawn was dead and handed command to the next most senior officer. (Which might have been himself)