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I managed to secure a {slightly, barely} early copy of Revan in the wee hours of the morning, and I'm just now putting it down for a breather. Overall, my impression of the book is that it's a decent read, especially as far as Star Wars is concerned. Karpyshyn is a moderately talented storyteller who is skilled with pacing and fight scenes. He remains firmly beneath the likes of Stover and Luceno, and I'd personally put him on par with the likes of Zahn, Denning, and Traviss in the low-mid-tier of Star Wars authors.

The Plagueis excerpt alone was worth the purchase and even in four pages one can see the wide gulf between Luceno and Karpyshyn as writers. Palpatine is chilling and it is implied that he Spoiler .

Oh boy, you're in for it now. You put Travis and Zahn on the same level.

I'll probably check out the Plagueis novel. I like Luceno's work, and more on Palpatine and his master will be interesting.

The Romulan Republic wrote:Oh boy, you're in for it now. You put Travis and Zahn on the same level.

Controversial as hell, I know.
But the truth is that Zahn never really astounded me as a novelist. He had some great ideas, but rampant minimalism and authorial vanity kept me from enjoying his works completely. But I do recognize and respect him for his contributions to the EU.

The Romulan Republic wrote:I'll probably check out the Plagueis novel. I like Luceno's work, and more on Palpatine and his master will be interesting.

Yeah, Luceno does a great job with Sidious. The first four pages paint him as a very chilling figure.

Zahn is strongest at characterization, suspense, and political intrigue I think. But he seems to be generally very well respected by the fans.

Not sure what you mean by "authorial vanity...".

I wouldn't say he's that minimalist, in any case. Maybe when he wrote The Thrawn Trilogy, but he also used 25,000 as the number of Imperial Star Destroyers, which isn't too bad when compared to Travis and her three million clones.

Going to be good to know more about Palpatine and the Sith. I remember the bits of Dark Lord where Luceno delved into Sith teachings and Palpatine's mindset. Very intriguing. I'd like some more of that.

there are some spoilers on amazon. The most I gathered was that plageius was a banker of some kind and that he focused more on financial matters and scientific research than palpy. The advance word is highly positive so it's on the list.

I saw excerpts from the Revan novel that Spoiler . I'm annoyed because it doesn't seem to be anything more than a cheap tie-in to the upcoming MMORPG.

As for the Plagueis novel, I just wish it had stayed cancelled. The story basically has to revolve around the relationship with Palpatine, and I just don't think his backstory can really be fleshed out in any satisfactory way.

The retcon argument is horsecrap from a whiny fanboy. Spoiler

The_Romulan_Republic wrote:Not sure what you mean by "authorial vanity...".

I find his interpretation of Thrawn and his abilities to border on the ridiculous.

TC_Pilot wrote:Spoiler

the Exile from KOTOR 2 got seriously (and horribly) retconned and then gets killed off like a punk

I'm not sure where the retcon stuff came from, but Spoiler

Darth_Yan wrote:Spoiler

They don't claim nihilus's powers do not exist they do just not on Vitiate's level and my interpretaion was that the exile was tough because of her wound in the force.

Spoiler

I'm never going to read this novel so could somebody give me a summary as to what happens? In particular to the Exile since KotOR 2 rocked and KotOR 1 can go get fucked.

Stofsk wrote:I'm never going to read this novel so could somebody give me a summary as to what happens? In particular to the Exile since KotOR 2 rocked and KotOR 1 can go get fucked.

Spoiler

The Romulan Republic wrote:Spoiler

How the fuck did Revan survive for three centuries? As far as I know he's standard human, and humans have a more or less normal life span in Star Wars. Shouldn't he have died after the first hundred years or so? Was he being kept alive by some Sith power?

Spoiler

G1d3on wrote:

The_Romulan_Republic wrote:Not sure what you mean by "authorial vanity...".

I find his interpretation of Thrawn and his abilities to border on the ridiculous.

I personally always thought Thrawn's ability to perform tactical master-strokes by analyzing people's art is partly a mask for other, more conventional forms of research. Thrawn's the sort of person who would take misdirection to that high a level- deliberately misleading people about how he makes his decisions.

Simon_Jester wrote:

G1d3on wrote:

The_Romulan_Republic wrote:Not sure what you mean by "authorial vanity...".

I find his interpretation of Thrawn and his abilities to border on the ridiculous.

I personally always thought Thrawn's ability to perform tactical master-strokes by analyzing people's art is partly a mask for other, more conventional forms of research. Thrawn's the sort of person who would take misdirection to that high a level- deliberately misleading people about how he makes his decisions.

What you're saying is a charismatic rationalization of what I believe to be an incredibly dumb plot device involving an otherwise great character. I'd vote for that retcon.

and "Vaner" shan (revan's son) is a politician. Weird.

Darth Yan wrote:and "Vaner" shan (revan's son) is a politician. Weird.

That kid's name is testament to Karpyshyn's abilities as a writer. Behold and be amazed.

G1d3on wrote:What you're saying is a charismatic rationalization of what I believe to be an incredibly dumb plot device involving an otherwise great character. I'd vote for that retcon.

Frankly, since Thrawn seemed like a pretty damn good tactician without screwing around with artwork, I don't think that it's a critical plot device. He likes art, he studies his enemies closely and tries to defeat them. So far, so sensible.

Part of his study involves art, and he claims that doing this helps him to understand his enemies... so what? I don't let it worry me too much.

at least Vaner's spawn have more creative names (Bress and Ressa). For some reason I thought Revan would have a daughter.

G1d3on wrote:
What you're saying is a charismatic rationalization of what I believe to be an incredibly dumb plot device involving an otherwise great character. I'd vote for that retcon.

If you assume that literally all Thrawn is doing is spending time in an art gallery of his enemies then yes it sounds and looks like a dumb plot device. But if you read between the lines and don't take Thrawn as one hundred percent literally true it becomes clear that what Thrawn was doing was combing deep psychological profiles, SIGINT, ELINT and HUMINT and using art as a framing device for his decision making and explanation of his plans to subordinates. Art is his hobby and no one can bullshit better than a post modernist art critic on how a bunch of trashcan lids duck taped together under a raincoat describes mans struggle with humanity in a urban setting compared to his yearning for an agrarian back to roots spiritualism.

It's the difference between reading Heir to the Empire in 1993 when I was only 11 years old VS re-reading it when I was twenty three and being able to grasp the nuances that skipped right over my head at that age.

Darth Yan wrote:The retcon argument is horsecrap from a whiny fanboy. Spoiler

They don't claim nihilus's powers do not exist they do just not on Vitiate's level and my interpretaion was that the exile was tough because of her wound in the force.

That sounds even worse. The danger of Nihilus' power was that his hunger threatened to destroy everything, so that either requires redefining the nature of the power, or it's just a case of silly one-upmanship.

TC Pilot wrote:

Darth Yan wrote:The retcon argument is horsecrap from a whiny fanboy. Spoiler

They don't claim nihilus's powers do not exist they do just not on Vitiate's level and my interpretaion was that the exile was tough because of her wound in the force.

That sounds even worse. The danger of Nihilus' power was that his hunger threatened to destroy everything, so that either requires redefining the nature of the power, or it's just a case of silly one-upmanship.

Spoiler

Mr Bean wrote:It's the difference between reading Heir to the Empire in 1993 when I was only 11 years old VS re-reading it when I was twenty three and being able to grasp the nuances that skipped right over my head at that age.

Notably, the fact that Zahn's work typically has such nuances, while still being basically comprehensible, is one of the things that makes people respect him. If you look at what he's saying and think about it, it makes more sense, not less. That's the mark of a good author.

For a full recap
Spoiler Spoiler Spoiler

People who like Zahn generally like him for his writing style and stories... the theme and the flavor. people who hate him hate him because they find he is too minimalist for their tastes (like 25,000 Star destroyers.) ya can't really compare the two though.

25,000 Star Destroyers really isn't that minimalist. Certainly not in the same league as 3 million clones, or even Zahns' early concept of 200 outdated cruisers being a major factor in the Galactic Civil War.