Deconstructing the Seismic Charge--how exactly does it work?

[SpaceMarine93]

In Star Wars II Attack of the Clones, Jango Fett was chased to Geonosis by Obi-Wan Kenobi. While dodging the asteroids in the planet's dense ring system, Jango deploys a bomb, a "Seismic Charge" or "Sonic Mine", which works like this:

A few seconds after launch, a seismic charge would detonate into a blue ball-shaped explosion which had the unusual side-effect of drawing in all sound from a given area around it. This small explosion soon collapsed in upon itself before releasing a shock wave of energy that would obliterate material in its path. They were particularly effective in asteroid fields, enabling the pilot to clear an area of hazardous asteroids. Such seismic waves were even capable of penetrating thin durasteel plating, though the Void-7 seismic charge was much more powerful.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Seismic_charge

A few problems:

First, how exactly is a Seismic charge capable of 'drawing' all the sound in a given area around it when there's no sound? The battle occurred at the asteroid ring far from the planet's atmosphere. Without atmospheric gasses to conduct sound vibration, how does it draw in all the sound? How does go PING! When it detonates?

Of course, the Behind the Scene section addresses this problem:

The idea during the production of Episode II was that the charge would suck in and absorb all the sound around it (such as the sounds of Obi-Wan Kenobi and Jango Fett's ships during their fight in the Geonosis asteroid belt), and then release them in a sonic explosion, resulting in the shockwave effect heard in the explosion sound.

That still does not address the fact that there is no gaseous medium to generate sound. And how does it 'draw' sound from the two ships? Does it suck in gas from the cockpits of the spacecrafts so it could generate sound? Does the bomb achieve this by manipulating matter via something like Quantum Entanglement?

Second, what kind of bomb devise works by collapsing an explosion on itself, and then release its energy in a planar shockwave? For the implosion, there's only two possibilities where this could happen:

==> One, the bomb is basically a thermonuclear device, an implosion type weapon using nuclear materials similar to plutonium which is compressed by a sphere of explosives and increasing its density by twice to four times its original, causing them to go critical. All this occurs in less than a fraction of a second and it still does not explain how the original explosion could be seen falling into itself, or focusing a blast into a planar shockwave.

==> Two, the bomb works by creating a small miniature sun which immediately goes supernova, or more accurately a gravitational collapse. In this case, a sun or something similar created in an explosion in which the outer layers of the explosion-structure free falls inwards, counter balanced by the total outward pointing gravitational force from the core of the explosion-structure, followed the outer layer is pushed out by a more powerful outward pointing gravitational force from the core. (This was hinted to be the case, as quoted from Wookiepedia:

The detonation of this weapon and subsequent shockwave are similar to the process through which a massive star dies by becoming a supernova, albeit at a greatly enhanced rate and utilizing primarily energy instead of matter.

)

And both cases still doesn't explain how does the bomb focus the outward blast into a planar shockwave that could cut through asteroids and ships? Something like the bomb-pump laser set-up but works on shockwaves?

Third: Practicality. How practical is a bomb which the damaging vector is two dimensional? In the hilarious Star Wars parody webcomic Darths and Droids issue 294, D&D player Jim, the macho hotheaded hero who happens to be a Geophysics student suggests that by creating a shockwave that travels in a "inverse linear profile, rather than linear square," the planar shockwave created "increases range and energy density at the cost of solid angle coverage.", making it extremely destructive. Wookiepedia info states that it makes clearing asteroids and smashing through durasteel plating more effective. But then again, it means that you have to aim it right, and nowhere was a mechanism suggested in the bomb or the spacecraft in Wookiepedia that allows the bomb to adjust its direction towards the area and target Jango wants the bomb's planar shockwave to go through.

So, really, how does the Seismic Charge really work? I am not really sure...

[Eframepilot]

It's simple. There IS sound in space in Star Wars.

[SpaceMarine93]

It's simple. There IS sound in space in Star Wars.

You might as well call the whole thing fantasy then.

But this is Sci-Fi! We demand at least a plausible explanation! Isn't that right, Star Wars fans?

[Crazedwraith]

How does a seismic charge work? Very well. Thanks for asking.

[Batman]

How does a seismic charge work? Very well. Thanks for asking.

Damn. I wanted to say that.

And at least for me personally, no I don't. I'm perfectly happy with the thing doing whatever it does somehow. What I do want is for any explanation that is presented to actually work.

[Eleventh Century Remnant]

Something semi- plausible, right, serious version first so cast rodinium hat on...

hm. The sound cancelling thing is a side effect of the operation of the bomb, and I think it makes more sense on the assumption that seismic charge is more of a statement of purpose than a strictly accurate technical descriptor, something along the lines of the several earth things called earthquake bombs, and not necessarily more accurate than "bangalore torpedo"- which is almost exactly what the thing actually is, a cutting and breaching charge.

How it works, hm- I think we're looking at the gravitational equivalent of a detonation pumped xaser. Analogy, this is. The first detonation, the spherical one, basically is a plasma bomb which effectively sets the gravitic side of the weapon, unseals the core and brings it up to operational speed.

The core of the thing (which would be hidden behind the blue flash, so never seen) is a gravitic turbine- attracts the high energy, still high density energised matter in the flare back in, and survives just long enough before being destroyed itself to impart the angular momentum of it's spin to the plasma sending it out in a more or less planar explosion.

Please bear in mind that all this is absolute bloody guesswork, and I have no confidence that if sensible numbers could be thrown at this they would add up.


The other option is to go with the old Lando Calrissian novels in which he's flying along in the middle of a dogfight, can't hear anything, wonder's what's happening, punches the environmental awareness module and the sound effects come back on.

[Panzersharkcat]

Darths and Droids to the rescue!

[SpaceMarine93]

I like that comic, but it was that which drove me to open this thread. By the way, what's the definition of rarefied? And how does the gas being ionized help conduct the blast?

[The Original Nex]

I don't know how it works, but it always struck me as something that ought to be used on land for demolitions or destroying armies or causing temblors, given the horizontal detonation. I figured Jango used them in space against Obi-wan for the "OMG" factor.

[Imperial528]

I always figured that the idea of the weapon was that when faced with large capital ships you can inflict heavy damage in a line along their hulls, and that it's most useful against smaller craft in debris field such as an asteroid belt so that you can magnify the amount of debris, making it harder to navigate and maneuver.

Of course, it could also be just a re-purposed mining charge.

How does it work? Fuck knows.

[JointStrikeFighter]

Maybe the eu is just fucking dumb.

[Connor MacLeod]

The charge goes boom and releases a slow moving glowy blue disk that chops through rock.

[Simon_Jester]

SM93, what kind of answer were you expecting to see here, anyway? Anything in Star Wars cannot be explained scientifically except on a speculative basis, since almost all of it features technology indistinguishable from magic. One explanation is as good as another if we stick to what people can generate with a few minutes' thought, and no one sane is going to spend more than a few minutes trying to answer a question like that.

[avatarxprime]

Well according to Wookieepedia, the Seismic Charge is just a giant sized thermal detonator that has been modified (with the addtion of Collapsium no less) to create a planar explosion rather than a spherical one. A thermal detonator already has the self-limiting *boom* size aspect, the Collapsium just forces that to be 2D rather than 3D, creating greater range at the cost of volume of *boom*.

As to real life, who knows. Few things work anything close to that way and they usually involve rather potent gravity wells, which clearly were not in play here.

[Shroom Man 777]

The sound comes from the music of the spheres humming in cosmic harmony. The seismic charge sounds like a guitar strumming, as it is like a ripple on the pond of that harmonious cosmic sphere-musics, a destructive wave consuming all in its path, a power of destructive creation subsuming them once more into the constituent matter of the cosmos - breaking down their forms into the basal phlogistons of creation. It is a cosmic symphony. The seismic charge is fueled by the power of rock.

[Nieztchean Uber-Amoeba]

Collapsium

oh

oh wow

collapsium

collapsium

[Shroom Man 777]

I'll stuff some prolapsium into my gigaton protoid turdpedoes.

[Dooey Jo]

And there you have it. It works by planarexplodium.

[Knife]

Does it have to be any more complex than a Sci Fi shaped charge? And I'll add on to the ad hoc nature of the weapon, it doesn't appear to have been a X34 MK 12 MOD 67 weapon system, rather more of a strapped on red neck weapon system Jango put together.

[Patroklos]

It makes far more sense as as an in atmpsphere surface weapon, basically a literal "daisy cutter."

I like the anti capital ship weapon angle too. I am not sure how capital ship structure works in SW (we know some are compartmental and have modular sections) but they would have to be built in specific ways to absorn tremendous and quick acceleration along various axis. Modern aircraft are build with this in mind. If this is the case, a concentrated cut along a specific plane causing very local damage but giving a slice effect that cuts through such structural elements might render a vessel unable to acceplerate or change direction of acceleration, basically immobalizing it. I can think of a few reason to go that route instead of slagging it outright, such as preping for bording operations or preserving material for capture.

Think of breaking a sea going ship's keel.

[Connor MacLeod]

The sound from the seismic charge mde me think it might be powered by noise Marines

[Shroom Man 777]

I have to admit, "its powered by collapsium lol" is a great answer to SpessMareen#'s question.

[Connor MacLeod]

I have to admit, "its powered by collapsium lol" is a great answer to SpessMareen#'s question.

Except that has the downside of being rthe canonical answer

A void-7 seismic charge consists of a large round container composed of an explosive blend of unstable liquid baradium and a volatile gas called collapsium. The core is framed by two electromagnetic exciter disks. When the charge is released into space the electromagnetic disks infuse the core with energized impulses that excite the blended explosives. Bhy the time the weapon collides with a hapless target, the core is supercharged. The resulting explosion creates a massive and rapidly expanding shock wave that can effortlessly slice through asteroids, enemy starships, and space stations.
...
The initial blast also causes a brief vaccuum in space that sucks victims toward the heard of the explosion.

Feel free to select your own jokes about excited gasses and creating vaccums. I maintain my theory of weapons powered by drugged up Slaaneshi rockers is far better.

(And if you think this is good I should post the bit where Storm trooper armour is made from the same plastic-like material car bumpers are made from.)

[Connor MacLeod]

New essential guide to weapons and technology for the seismic charge. The second edition encylopedia for the second one, although that one is so full of stupid shit that I try not to think about it if I can. I swear half the shit was ripped off the wiki.

[Shroom Man 777]

Anyway. SpessMareen#. Listen to me.

You keep on asking us details on this and that. Details on 40k and SW whatevers because you want to write something. Details on OWS because you wanna know more. Etc.

Anyway, in this particular thread, you are asking technical explanations for the seismic charge and definitions of what the hell "rarefied" means.

Presumably because you're interested in sci-fis and maybe you want to write stuff of your own.

Let me tell you that these technical explanations of seismic charges in these SW wikis and Inedible Colon Sections and whatnot are horrible.

If you write a story and describe something like a seismic charge with more than one paragraph, or with multiple boring paragraphs, getting too detailed on these kinds of description can also be horrible.

And if you fill it with useless technical jargon like "rarefied" because you want it to sound cool, and you yourself don't know what the hell these terms actually mean, and you're doing this seriously, then it might also end up being horrible.

It's hard to pull off a detailed technical-sounding description of sci-fi doohickeys without being horrible.

In fact, a "show not tell" approach is better.

See, how you are en-awesomed by watching the seismic charge's effects in that awesome action sequence in AOTC. It was holy shit woah cool radical groooovy maaaan. Right?

But notice when Connor MacLeod and other guys here in this thread actually post the SW EU ICS encyclopedia explanations of the seismic charge's mechanics, it's not holy shit woah cool radical groooovy maaaan.

It's actually pretty shit. The technical craps of the seismic charges were actually pretty lame. I dunno about you, but I think I could've gone on living without hearing shit like "rarefied collapsion ionized planar gasses". The seismic charge exploderization special effect awesomes would've still been awesome without that kind of lame.

Anyway. Not once in the original Star Wars movies did they even bother to explain how their crap works. They just did it, without anyone ever saying rarefied ionized inverse plane nonsense. We just had Nah Olso and Bluke Blarwalker and Brewbacca and Leela Organoid and Darth Dader do all sorts of awesome stuffs, and we were sucked into this great adventure and nobody cared how the proton torpedoes worked at all.