Darth Plagueis

[Eframepilot]

The novel was officially released over a week ago and I've been looking through the eBook version (my first eBook purchase). It's quite good and really fills in the last major gap in Star Wars backstory, that of the movies' main villain Darth Sidious. All the continuity references to so very many previous Sith Lords are actually almost stifling, but there are some intriguing new elements introduced (Darth Gravid's story, the only Dark Lord of the Sith seduced by the light side) that make it seem more natural. Plagueis himself is kept alive and active all the way to mid-Phantom Menace, but the retcon works for the most part and lets him keep a more active role in the Sith's Grand Plan to overthrow the Republic... which is more believable than Sidious doing it all on his own before even becoming Supreme Chancellor.

[JME2]

I'm waiting for my local library to get it in, but I'm really looking forward to it. It's my must-read book of 2012 so far.

[Scrib]

Just read this. Didn't like it at all.
Warning: Mild spoilers below.

Perhaps I expected too much. I wanted a Darth Bane-esque journey of discovery for Plagueis, showing how he came to be so good at manipulating the Force. Something akin to Luke discovering new techniques in the Fate of the Jedi. Nope. What I got instead was the story of Darth Sidious, something I'm sure I had a good idea about already. Then we got an anticlimatic confrontation between Palpatine and Plagueis, which was weird simply because Luceno wrote himself into a bit of a corner.

I liked some of the stuff about how Plagueis became influential and his experiments with midichlorians, that stuff was good. Although I think it suffered from an issue of scale; a single deposit of plasma throwing off Malastare's chokehold and supplying hundreds of worlds? Must be one hell of a deposit... But honestly I think the story was most interesting when Plagueis first started to interact with Palpatine, it should have continued from there. Hell I didn't even mind the overexplanation of some things, EUs has a tendency of filling in things, and it can be quite annoying at times. But here I didn't mind because there was always a pretty good reason for the Sith Lords to be interested in certain individuals early on, it never felt like they were forced into an action out of character.

Instead it skipped all of that in order to give us this already played-out story of Palpatine seizing control. I think it also retconned Maul's backstory and introduced in a pretty lazy way that I instantly disliked. And the Force philosophy... oh god. I switched off for about half of it. I'm not even sure what Luceno was trying to say. The Force should be bent to the will of the Sith not the other way around? Okay. But wait. The Sith actually follow the will of the Force? It just kept going on and on.

Seriously, there was a chance for some real conflict here. Two Sith Lords nearing the end, fighting for control? Instead we got a dumb-ass Plagueis relegated to the sidelines while Sidious did most of the heavy lifting.

I would have preferred Karpyshyn do the story. As much as he wanks his Sith Lords he's proven he can spin a good yarn about them and give them challenges when they have to stay hidden for a few thousand years from their canonical nemesis. He may not have been as in-depth into some of the financial and political dealings as Luceno but he probably would have put out a better overall story.

[Adam Reynolds]

I largely agreed with most of what you said about this book. Another element that bothered me was the fact that Luceno was too much of an inclusionist, that he spent too much time trying to tie in already existing elements of the EU at the expense of his own story. This was already something he had done in his earlier books, but in Labyrinth of Evil and Cloak of Deception it seemed much less jarring than its depiction here. As I was reading this, I felt like I had to always be checking Wookiepedia to see what he was talking about with different things. The best Star Wars books can be read without knowing the details of other parts of the EU in detail.

I do agree that Karpyshyn would have likely done a better job as well. He really did seem to have a good grasp of writing Sith conflicts well. As you said, I also think he did a much better job with writing Sith as in being in hiding.

[Scrib]

Yeah, just by setting the story so close to TPM Luceno guaranteed his story would be about the of Palpatine. There was no need to tie anything in with the movies, it just clogs that entire area for me. We don't need to retread that ground.

But I have to say, Luceno did do a good job of portraying the various alien races in the SWverse, as compared to some writers where it's very human-centric.

[Darth Yan]

I loved the bits where plagueis and anakin both find out about Anakin and have a collective "oh shit" moment. Plaguieis is satisfying because it's the first time he truly shows fear and distress. Before he was always smug even when things looked like they were heading up shit creek (I mean he only escaped Veruna's grab thanks to jabba)

[JME2]

2 months later and I still appreciate how Luceno answered the Anakin question.
Spoiler

I like the compromise Luceno presented, that Sith and Force directly and indirectly created Anakin. It preserves enough of the ambiguity of the films and the ultimate irony inherent in the Banite Sith's weapon ultimately turning on them.

[Ashka Boda]

I would have preferred Karpyshyn do the story. As much as he wanks his Sith Lords he's proven he can spin a good yarn about them and give them challenges when they have to stay hidden for a few thousand years from their canonical nemesis. He may not have been as in-depth into some of the financial and political dealings as Luceno but he probably would have put out a better overall story.

I do agree that Karpyshyn would have likely done a better job as well.

I can't believe you guys prefer Karpyshyn over Luceno. He should stick to video games imo.

Oh well. No disputing taste, I guess.

Luceno did do a good job of portraying the various alien races in the SWverse, as compared to some writers where it's very human-centric.

I agree with this a lot. Darth Plagueis as a whole has many excellent qualities, but as a whole, it amounts to little more than well-researched retcon written in good prose. I'm thankful for that, especially when so much retcon is so hackneyed and shitty (I can't stand Abel Pena's horseshit), but I didn't find it to be a terribly well-put-together novel.
Spoiler

Also, it didn't make much sense to me to keep Plagueis alive for so long; I thought Luceno would never kill him off, even when the last section of the book could just as easily have been titled "Darth Sidious." In the end, he dies at the same time as Maul, meaning Maul was never a true Sith.

[Darth Fanboy]

*deleted by author*

[atg]

Spoiler

In the end, he dies at the same time as Maul, meaning Maul was never a true Sith.

Spoiler

And Maul never knew he was getting played. Does that mean we can have 'The Tragedy of Darth Maul the stupid'? :3
Seriously though it just really means that the Rule of Two had ended - which Plagueis mentioned quite a few times in the book. The 'ending' of the Rule of Two just ended up taking a different meaning to what Plagueis originally intended.

[JME2]

Actually, I'd read the short story "Endgame" from the TPN novelization re-release.
Spoiler

It re-tells the second half of TPM from Maul's perspective. While on Naboo, he uncovers evidence that makes him wonder if Sidious is playing him.

[atg]

Actually, I'd read the short story "Endgame" from the TPN novelization re-release.
Spoiler

It re-tells the second half of TPM from Maul's perspective. While on Naboo, he uncovers evidence that makes him wonder if Sidious is playing him.

Thanks for that info - I'll have to go read that.

[Lord Falcon]

Bah, I personally disliked the idea of Plagueis surviving so long. The way Palpatine describes it in ROTS - the book, of course, not the movie - he killed him years before even finding Maul, or thereabouts. And even if this wasn't the case, it really seems to diminish Palpatine's badass status to have his Master holding his hand while he puts into place the events leading to the Republic's fall. I also think they butchered the way he killed his Master. The way Palpatine describes it in ROTS, one night Plagueis went to bed and was killed by Palpatine, totally random and out of nowhere, though it seems implied that Palps had been patiently waiting for this opportunity to present itself. No, in DP, Sidious plastered Plagueis and then blasted him with Sith lightning. This is not canon; this is practically a retcon. The way it's implied, Palpatine either Force choked Plagueis or he cut off his head or stabbed him in the heart. I love James Luceno, but personally, this book was a big letdown. My opinion, though.

[atg]

IIRC the way Palpatine's thought process goes in that scene it seems that he hadn't planned to kill Plagueis at that time, but the realisation of the opportunity he had suddenly hit him.

[Ire]

Bah, I personally disliked the idea of Plagueis surviving so long. The way Palpatine describes it in ROTS - the book, of course, not the movie - he killed him years before even finding Maul, or thereabouts. And even if this wasn't the case, it really seems to diminish Palpatine's badass status to have his Master holding his hand while he puts into place the events leading to the Republic's fall. I also think they butchered the way he killed his Master. The way Palpatine describes it in ROTS, one night Plagueis went to bed and was killed by Palpatine, totally random and out of nowhere, though it seems implied that Palps had been patiently waiting for this opportunity to present itself. No, in DP, Sidious plastered Plagueis and then blasted him with Sith lightning. This is not canon; this is practically a retcon. The way it's implied, Palpatine either Force choked Plagueis or he cut off his head or stabbed him in the heart. I love James Luceno, but personally, this book was a big letdown. My opinion, though.

He wan't holding his hand. Sidious was playing him like a fiddle and milking him for all he was worth while he was playing loyal Aprentence and killed him off when he outlived his usefulness

[Arawn Fenn]

Bah, I personally disliked the idea of Plagueis surviving so long. The way Palpatine describes it in ROTS - the book, of course, not the movie - he killed him years before even finding Maul, or thereabouts.

The book says nothing about the timing of the incident, other than the initial claim that it was an "old legend", just as it was called a "legend" in the film - but that is completely undercut by Palpatine's implication, and later revelation, that he lived through the events in question.

[JME2]

Bah, I personally disliked the idea of Plagueis surviving so long. The way Palpatine describes it in ROTS - the book, of course, not the movie - he killed him years before even finding Maul, or thereabouts. And even if this wasn't the case, it really seems to diminish Palpatine's badass status to have his Master holding his hand while he puts into place the events leading to the Republic's fall. I also think they butchered the way he killed his Master. The way Palpatine describes it in ROTS, one night Plagueis went to bed and was killed by Palpatine, totally random and out of nowhere, though it seems implied that Palps had been patiently waiting for this opportunity to present itself. No, in DP, Sidious plastered Plagueis and then blasted him with Sith lightning. This is not canon; this is practically a retcon. The way it's implied, Palpatine either Force choked Plagueis or he cut off his head or stabbed him in the heart. I love James Luceno, but personally, this book was a big letdown. My opinion, though.

He wan't holding his hand. Sidious was playing him like a fiddle and milking him for all he was worth while he was playing loyal Aprentence and killed him off when he outlived his usefulness

Yeah, he was going to kill him eventually; the Dark Side was merely confirming this was an appropriate venue to do so.