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I want to discuss TPM… a lot of people did not like the film and have labeled it “a Bad movie”. Now there are some parts in the movie that I did not like but overall it was a “good movie”. I’m going to start off with the things I did not like though. First of Jar jar binks… yes he is annoying and not funny the movie could have done without him. My 5-year-old nephew didn’t even find him funny. Anakin has no father… stupid, this is Star Wars not the Bible and finally last but not least midi-chlorians. I don’t really see why it was necessary to break the force down to a science. Come on “the force” was a mystery power that only a select few could control but now it matters on how many midi-chlorians you have in your bloodstream… I don’t know, I’m I the only one who doesn’t like that? Oh yeah, and Jake loyld was a horrible actor, if you have the DVD of TPM go into the special features to see the other 2 kids who where shooting for the role… the like blonde kid would of made a much better Anakin. Now to all the things that TPM did right… Darth maul, introducing a different type of light saber was a great idea. The underwater scene added another aspect of Star wars that we have never seen and I thought that it was awesome to see those creatures, very well designed. The pod-racing scene was great to adding speed and intensity to the movie; of course I have always been a big fan of the speeders scene in ROTJ. The beginning of the movie was a good introduction for the Jedi. It was great to hear how fearful the neimoidians were of the Jedi even when they shut the blast doors one of them said “we will not survive this” or something to that effect. Why do I think it was a good beginning? Because in the original trilogy we never saw anything like that, no body feared the Jedi because they were all but dead. We never saw Luke use his light saber to cut through a blast door. Another great part was the astro-mechs fixing the ship in space. I don’t know why but just really liked seeing different astro-mechs fixing something other than just R2. The light saber dual between Qui-gon, Obi-wan and Darth Maul was awesome there is nothing else to say about it. And just to be a jerk I would like to say that ST fanatics wish they had a scene in their movies/shows that were as exciting as that . Anyway, is any of the stuff I have said valid? I hope that saying this will make you go back and re-examine it because I know a lot of people who don’t like it/ hate it. I’m not saying it’s the best movie but just that it is a good movie

just to let you know i have no idea why there are all those #'s in there. Thats what you get when you copy and paste. Sorry

The double bladed sabre was lifted lock stock and barrel from the EU.

Come on “the force” was a mystery power that only a select few could control but now it matters on how many midi-chlorians you have in your bloodstream… I don’t know, I’m I the only one who doesn’t like that

Midichlorians are okay if viewed as indicators of one's Force strength or potential, etc. rather than something that "causes" the Force, which I think is just silly.

I think that, had TPM not been a SW movie, it would have received better reviews. I think it was a good movie, but it was not a SW movie. Being a SW movie, it has some expectation it needs to live up to, and it did not do it. On the other hand, AotC did.

The Tatooine scenes spoiled it a little for me. Sooooo tedious and the pod race was urm anti climatic I thought. Apart from that and the obvious Jar Jar it wasn't half bad. It was no ANH but it wasn't a terrible film by any means.

Crazy_Vasey wrote:The double bladed sabre was lifted lock stock and barrel from the EU.

I dunno about that; if we look at this the way a well-run patent office would, we would have to conclude that a double-bladed lightsabre is an obvious iteration upon a single-bladed lightsabre, and does not qualify as sufficiently original that it can be "stolen" in any meaningful sense.

TPM didn't live up to expectations, but it wasn't awful. It didn't deserve the critical tarring it got. After a while, it became "cool" to berate TPM; by shouting loudly that you hated TPM (even more than the next guy), guys could prove their "serious sci-fi fan" credentials in front of their little geek buddies.

By the way, kids and mothers generally liked it more than sci-fi geeks did.

Midichlorians are fine in my opinion, especially since ATOC seem to show that they don’t give you force powers, but a merely indication them. Jar Jar was annoying as all hell, and I wish he had been replaced by just a normal everyday guy/Gungan who gets caught up in the invasion, rather then a comedy character who's a moron. The gungans really should get more credit though, after all, they where smart enough to exile him for his stupidity..

The final battles problems mostly relate to Anakins dialog, and the hand-to-hand Gungan fighting with the driod's. The first needed rewriting, and the second should have been replaced by something else, hopeful involving a lot more dead Gungans.

Really, all of this relates to atmosphere, not story line. Everyone, me included, expected a much darker movie, which we never got. In hindsight, the commercials and trailers never supported that assumption.

It would have been good if it wasnt' for that Jar Jar creep. He was only there to annoy 90% of the moviegoers. Only the little kids liked him. Other than that, it was an okay movie, IMO.

I think once critics and fans alike pull the stick out of their collective ass, The Phantom Menace will be accepted as a good movie, and a decent entry into the Star Wars saga. There's much to be liked: Qui-Gon Jinn is the best Jedi character so far, in my opinion, Darth Maul was cool as hell, and seeing Tatooine society in even greater detail than we previously had was very enjoyable.

And there is not one moment in Episode I that even vaguely recalls the stupidity of the song number in RoTJ: Special Edition. Sorry you reminding you.

Personally I loved TPM. In regards to something almost all Star Wars fans love, ANH, TPM had it's dragging parts, but then again, it had it's thrilling action. I think TPM was helped along by computers more than anything though. It always seemed to me that the flight from the Death Star was suspenseful, but then again, you see a camera fly by of a TIE and part of the Falcon. Whereas the flight from Naboo, the Royal Cruiser was not exactly performing barrel rolls, but the shots seemed more fluent. If...err when Lucas goes back and makes the Super Duper Street Fighter Alpha EX editions of Star Wars I hope they do something about that scene. Maybe take a cue from X-Wing Alliances opening scene, were you follow the TIE Fighter on it's attack run across the hull. Heh. Back to the point, TPM loved it. Jar Jar could have been removed in certain parts, but oh well, he's there. So are giant space slugs, wamp rats, ewoks and aliens. Oops. Probably would have to be #6 on my list of favorite Star Wars movies (Ewok adventure baby yeah. ahem, I mean, Ep 3 won't be last.) but it's well above many other movies....Even Lord of the Rings!!! ::runs away in fear of all others, himself included::

It certainly is so far the worst of all the Star Wars movies- and it is flawed, but no its not completely awful.

One review said it would be the greatest movie any under-12 year old had ever seen. Pretty true.

But I got the impression that George Lucas was out of practice. Look at Attack of the Clones in comparison to Phantom Menace.

TPM was also way too childish- Jar-Jar's physical comedy is the most glaring example.

Well of course TPM didn't do so well. I mean, it's a good movie, it's just not a good Star Wars movie. Star Wars movies have a reputation, and TPM failed to meet it.

What pissed me off about TPM wasn't the plot really, it wasn't Jar Jar. It was the Trade Federation and the Battledroids. What. The. Fuck! They had to rank among the stupidest army in existance. I mean, really! Look that the way the Battledroids were deployed. Their APCs rolled up to there the Gungans had formed a battleline. Then they slowly opened up, and the racks slowly unfolded and set the battledroids, who were all still not activated and curled up, into neat little rows. Then they were activated all at once and marched toward the gungan lines like the Trade Federation had received their military tactics from the British circa 1790. Had the Gungans had modern StarWars weapons and not waited for the Battledroids to unfold, the Battledroids would have been defeated in short order, as they;d be blasted to shreds while those silly racks were unfolding. Plus, they are all powered and controlled by a single parent computer, which if destroyed, makes the battledroids literally fall to pieces. Does this mean that the battledroids require power to prevent them from falling apart? Insane. Stupidly so. They honestly didn't deserve to win at all.

You know, I would have paid to see the dramatic battle with tens of thousand of Gungans forming their battle line and raising their shield on a hillside and then the Droid army coming over a hill already unfolded and running toward the Gungans with there tanks pouring fire on the wavering shield. The line of charging Battledroids causes stir in the Gungan warriors, but the General raises his hand and orders them unwavering to steady themselves... and throw! Thousands of bombas rain down one the rushing Battledroid army and the droids fall by the hundreds but with unwavering fearlessness of a robot the droids charge on. The Gungan general calls for the shield bearers to raise their shields and behind them the drilled ranks of the Gungan army continues to pound the droids as skilled slingsmen trade empty slings for ones with a bomba in it that their loaders work tirelessly to keep them throwing. The wall of rushing battledroids is not 30 meters from the shield barrier when suddenly silver spheres arc up from the wall of battledroids and enter the shield. Thermal detonators! All along the lines hundreds of brave Gungan shield bearers are atomized but the rest steel themselves as warriors rush forward with bombas and melee weapons to meet the unstoppable army that is already breeching their theatre shield. The battle quickly dissolves into brutal close quarters combat. Blaster bolts fell Gungans by the dozen. Bombas continue to be thrown from the bomba line 20 meters behind the Gungan melee line and the heavy clubs of the Gungans crash down upon robot skulls. But the line is breeched and the bomba throwers are falling as droidekas and battledroids pour through. The Gungan general, on his back and regarding the smoking stump that used to be his left leg, raises the horn to his lips and painfully blows the order for all gungans to retreat and save themselves before dying. The generals bombacarrier attempts to drag the general from the fray, but looks up in terror to see a battledroid looming over him. The battledroid raises his blaster to slay the Gungan, who covers his face... then nothing happens. Looking up the battle droid is frozen in place. Sounds of confusion come up over the field as the battledroids all cease their slaughter, some off balance and topple over. All is quiet over the battlefield except for the moans of some of the wounded. Then the general's bombacarrier lets out a cheer and all over the grounds the surviving Gungans cry victory, for over head, invisible to them in the daylight, a Naboo fighters pull away from the incandescant debris field of the Trade Federation control ship. The day has been won, and the sacrifice of the proud warrior people of the Gungans who lost their best youth to destract the Droid army while Queen Amidala and the Naboo defeated the Trade Federation in the capital and in space and free their world would live in Gungan song and Galactic legend for the next hundred generations.

*ahem*

At least, I'd gladly give my money to see that.

First time I watched TPM, it was so-so. The second time it was a lot more enjoyable. Why? Because I didn't have any expectations left (And here I thought I was objective from the start, but hell no), and because I had time now to pick up many details I didn't pay attention to the first time. I think TPM was good. I'd rate it higher without Jar-Jar who was just in it for the kids, though. I spent a bit of time hoping that he'd be crushed by an AAT or so.

Sea Skimmer wrote:Midichlorians are fine in my opinion, especially since ATOC seem to show that they don’t give you force powers, but a merely indication them. Jar Jar was annoying as all hell, and I wish he had been replaced by just a normal everyday guy/Gungan who gets caught up in the invasion, rather then a comedy character who's a moron. The gungans really should get more credit though, after all, they where smart enough to exile him for his stupidity..

Yes, that's true. And then they made him General.

What pissed me off about TPM wasn't the plot really, it wasn't Jar Jar. It was the Trade Federation and the Battledroids. What. The. Fuck! They had to rank among the stupidest army in existance. I mean, really! Look that the way the Battledroids were deployed. Their APCs rolled up to there the Gungans had formed a battleline. Then they slowly opened up, and the racks slowly unfolded and set the battledroids, who were all still not activated and curled up, into neat little rows. Then they were activated all at once and marched toward the gungan lines like the Trade Federation had received their military tactics from the British circa 1790. Had the Gungans had modern StarWars weapons and not waited for the Battledroids to unfold, the Battledroids would have been defeated in short order, as they;d be blasted to shreds while those silly racks were unfolding. Plus, they are all powered and controlled by a single parent computer, which if destroyed, makes the battledroids literally fall to pieces. Does this mean that the battledroids require power to prevent them from falling apart? Insane. Stupidly so. They honestly didn't deserve to win at all.

I don't know if this has been brought up yet, but in the Episode I Documentary that came with the DVD George Lucas explained the horrible inefficiency of the battle droids to Steven Spielberg, of all people, so at least it was the intent to make the battle droids clumsy and inefficient, not an accident.

It's a plot point in EpII that the clones are superior to Battle Droids. That indicates that Battle Droids are not preferred over clones, but that they are cheaper or have some other benefits (like the fact that they can be concealed as non-military or security droids). Obviously the droids were meant to be inefficient and relatively weak.

The only thing I find really annoying with TPM is Anakin. He has a few moments where he's okay but making him so young was a big mistake. (Wasn't Luke young enough in ANH?). If he wasn't so young they could have had a much better actor in the part which would have been a big help.

The elected Queen of the Naboo would have been of a more believable age (not that I want them to get rid of Natalie Portman but 14years old??? C'mon!).

It is just too much of a stretch to believe that a 9 year old kid could do ALL of what Anakin did. Good with technical things okay. A good pilot okay. A great pilot who could design and build his own pod racer in his spare time, and in his ultra spare time he put together a protocal droid!?! All this while being a slave.

Jar Jar did push things a bit too much but I feel the same way about the Threepio humor in ATOC. Cheesey forced humor was something that started in ROTJ and the less there is of that kind of humor the better.

I've noticed that I enjoy TPM more now that it is on DVD. The skip and FF functions really help get past the annoying parts and on to the cool parts..

[quote="Gil Hamilton"]What pissed me off about TPM wasn't the plot really, it wasn't Jar Jar. It was the Trade Federation and the Battledroids. What. The. Fuck! They had to rank among the stupidest army in existance. I mean, really! Look that the way the Battledroids were deployed. Their APCs rolled up to there the Gungans had formed a battleline. Then they slowly opened up, and the racks slowly unfolded and set the battledroids, who were all still not activated and curled up, into neat little rows. Then they were activated all at once and marched toward the gungan lines like the Trade Federation had received their military tactics from the British circa 1790. Had the Gungans had modern StarWars weapons and not waited for the Battledroids to unfold, the Battledroids would have been defeated in short order, as they;d be blasted to shreds while those silly racks were unfolding. Plus, they are all powered and controlled by a single parent computer, which if destroyed, makes the battledroids literally fall to pieces. Does this mean that the battledroids require power to prevent them from falling apart? Insane. Stupidly so. They honestly didn't deserve to win at all.
[quote]

If the Gungans had Modern Star Wars weapons, then to use them against the unfolding driod's they would have had to drop their protective shield. They would then be destroyed by the guns of the MTT's and tanks in short order.

As for tactics, what they did should have worked, and it did. Direct frontal attacks are sometimes the best option.

Sea Skimmer wrote:If the Gungans had Modern Star Wars weapons, then to use them against the unfolding driod's they would have had to drop their protective shield. They would then be destroyed by the guns of the MTT's and tanks in short order.

As for tactics, what they did should have worked, and it did. Direct frontal attacks are sometimes the best option.

The shield lets matter through. They could stick the business end of their blasters (or better let, an E-Web) through the shield and still hit the battledroid APCs. Besides, instead of a bomba, they could use their slings to throw a few thermal detonaters. With a sling you can throw an object suprisingly far, certainly far enough to reach the still unfolding Battledroid lines and tanks for that matter. Besides, those MTTs and tanks didn't appear to have too mobile tank turrets and unlike exploding rounds, they don't spray rock shards and shrapnel when they hit, so they couldn't kill more than a few Gungans at a time, if they were lucky. The Gungan catapults could have remained in the shield and destroyed the tanks while the Gungan infantry destroyed the battledroids.

ANd just because something turned out to work okay doesn't mean wasn't a stupid idea. I described a direct frontal assault too, only in my scenario, the battle droids unfolded before they meet the Gungan line and charged, rather than walking slowly forward like something out of the Revolutionary War. HAving your entire body of troops sitting their inactive in the face of the enemy is a BAD idea. Notice that the Gungans were on a plain and the Battledroids came down over the hill. They could have just as easily used their ponderous and inefficent unloading process behind the hill out of sight of the Gungan lines. What occur was just plain bad ground tactics.

Eleas wrote:

Sea Skimmer wrote:Midichlorians are fine in my opinion, especially since ATOC seem to show that they don’t give you force powers, but a merely indication them. Jar Jar was annoying as all hell, and I wish he had been replaced by just a normal everyday guy/Gungan who gets caught up in the invasion, rather then a comedy character who's a moron. The gungans really should get more credit though, after all, they where smart enough to exile him for his stupidity..

Yes, that's true. And then they made him General.

Clearly the trauma of the invasion affect their logic and reasoning centers of their brains… Course, did he ever even give any orders?

Durran Korr wrote:

What pissed me off about TPM wasn't the plot really, it wasn't Jar Jar. It was the Trade Federation and the Battledroids. What. The. Fuck! They had to rank among the stupidest army in existance. I mean, really! Look that the way the Battledroids were deployed. Their APCs rolled up to there the Gungans had formed a battleline. Then they slowly opened up, and the racks slowly unfolded and set the battledroids, who were all still not activated and curled up, into neat little rows. Then they were activated all at once and marched toward the gungan lines like the Trade Federation had received their military tactics from the British circa 1790. Had the Gungans had modern StarWars weapons and not waited for the Battledroids to unfold, the Battledroids would have been defeated in short order, as they;d be blasted to shreds while those silly racks were unfolding. Plus, they are all powered and controlled by a single parent computer, which if destroyed, makes the battledroids literally fall to pieces. Does this mean that the battledroids require power to prevent them from falling apart? Insane. Stupidly so. They honestly didn't deserve to win at all.

I don't know if this has been brought up yet, but in the Episode I Documentary that came with the DVD George Lucas explained the horrible inefficiency of the battle droids to Steven Spielberg, of all people, so at least it was the intent to make the battle droids clumsy and inefficient, not an accident.

This makes scense. I believe and there is sufficient evidence that the Droids are able to think. 3PO in ANH says "I think" atleast five times, The Battle Droid says "Aaa...Errr....does not computer, Blast them." showing he was thinking about what to do. I believe the Nemodians used one computer to control all of the droids for a reason, and why they made them so flawed. As they may have some sense and seeing how cowardly the Nemodians are; the Nemodians tried to prevent them from creating an uprising. By having all the droids connected through one area, if an uprising was to start a shut down of all of the units could be done.

The TPM has a lot of horrible flaws which I don't want to list just now, I must build it, but my opinion is that it is trash, worthless garbage to my self that is. Ahh what Audience was Lucas trying to please(I almost vomited after watching that idiot Jar Jar yesterday). Georgie my pal WE ARE ALL GROWN UP were is the WARS in Star Wars, this stuff is Junk. GL should of started with the Clone Wars and had ANI and AMI fall in love during it, and have an assasination of a major leader in the senate and then have Palpi take his place and use the army to give him power. The plot I can think and write down in 5 minutes would blow TPM out of the water. I thought GL lost it when TPM came out but he got it back in AOTC, lets hope he brings his thoughts back full "force" in EP III.

One post in here summarized TPM nicely: It was a great sci-fi movie but an okay SW movie.

Another way to put it is this:

Original trilogy: "I'd see this movie dozens of times again!"

TPM: "I'd see this movie three times!"

As a transition movie to introduce new characters and motivations, TPM is a good movie.
I wish Maul would have lived and then died at Anakin's hands in EPII, but that was not to be.
Over all, the movie introduces a new set of parameters and sets the story for the next two movies. AOTC is a good movie but would not have been good if TPM was crap.

Point: TPM is a good movie. If you were expecting ROTJ or ESB then you were probably let down. But I expected an introduction film and was not let down. The only thing I disliked about TPM was the kid who played Anakin. They should have chosen a different boy. Jar Jar is dumb but he didn't make my stomach turn. Its a good film and the fight scene between Maul, Obi wan and Qui gon was well done.