A Couple Of Questions From A Newbie.

[cndnheel]

Please be gentle.

Did Chewie know what he was getting Han into after recognizing Ben was obviously a Jedi After the incident in the Cantina at Mos Eisley? Chewie was obviously a supporter of the Jedi during the clone wars, so did he have an idea who and maybe why he was getting Han to help Ben and the Rebel's?

How is it that Old Ben didn't recognize R2 after he rescued Luke from the Sand people? R2 was Anakin's droid right, and he and Ben were quite close so he must have been quite familiar with R2.

Thanks for any help with these questions I have after watching the original E1 this evening.

[Dalton]

My take is that Chewie never encountered Obi-Wan and thus did not recognize him. I could be wrong.

I did get the sense that Obi-Wan either knew R2 or recognized the model. Astromech droids were quite common.

[Batman]

I'm not sure how Chewie recognizing Ben figures into the equation. For starters, ANH Ben was significantly older (I'm inclined to say excessively older) than PT Ben so Chewie might simply not have recognized him, but as Chewie apparently guilt-tripped Han into going back and helping Luke saving the day wouldn't that work perfectly with him remembering Ben and simply not letting on?

[cndnheel]

I didn't mean that he recognized Ben at all, only that he was pretty tight with the Jedi's during the clone wars, and do you think after seeing Ben in action at the Cantina (obviously recognizing that Ben was a Jedi), it may have sealed the deal in him getting Han to help Ben and maybe push him to help the Rebel's?

[cndnheel]

As for the R2 recognizing, it bothers me when people say how powerful Jedi's are/were, yet he couldn't recall a VERY specific R2 unit that his own apprentice had by his side...really, is this believable???? ESPECIALLY when said droid comes looking specifically for Ben when pretty much NOBODY is supposed to know he's there and is a Jedi...you'd think that would prove to some fans that Ben does indeed know exactly whom R2 is.

[Kreller1]

Lots of astromech droids that look very similar, plus Ben is OLD at the time of ANH.
The Chewie thing I dunno, but if he was paying any kind of attention when Yoda was sitting in Council (albeit remotely) on Kashyyk he would have at least seen Obi-Wan and heard his name when he was chosen to go to Utapau. Granted, it would have been a hologram of Obi, but still.

[Captain Seafort]

For starters, ANH Ben was significantly older (I'm inclined to say excessively older) than PT Ben

He was. The gap's meant to be about 20 years, but Guinness was almost 30 years older in 1977 than McGregor was in 2005.

The Chewie thing I dunno, but if he was paying any kind of attention when Yoda was sitting in Council (albeit remotely) on Kashyyk he would have at least seen Obi-Wan and heard his name when he was chosen to go to Utapau. Granted, it would have been a hologram of Obi, but still.

He was also still calling himself Kenobi which, when combined with swinging a lightsaber around, is a bit of a giveaway.

[Lord Revan]

well Tatooine is a harsh place to live in, so Kenobi might have "aged" apprence wise more then his biological age would suggest.

As for not recognizing R2 how do we know he didn't recognize him, after all he "lied" about Vader's idenity, so why not dodge the question about R2 (note that he never outright says that "I don't recognize this droid", saying he knows R2-D2 might lead to some akward questions, questions Obi-wan would rather avoid if possible.

[cndnheel]

Good call Lord Reven, I believe he knew who R2 was as well and played dumb. He seemed to just have a sly look on his face when he claimed he didn't remember ever owning any droids.

To try and clear this Kenobi stuff up a bit, I never meant that Chewie ever saw him or knew him, just that since Chewie was a Jedi ally in the Clone Wars and helped to save Yoda, would that maybe have led him to try and make sure Han helped the old man once it was clear that he was a Jedi and maybe they were back to try and clean things up?

[Elfdart]

I didn't mean that he recognized Ben at all, only that he was pretty tight with the Jedi's during the clone wars, and do you think after seeing Ben in action at the Cantina (obviously recognizing that Ben was a Jedi), it may have sealed the deal in him getting Han to help Ben and maybe push him to help the Rebel's?

It's possible, given what you see in ROTS. After all, Han is desperate for cash to pay off Jabba and Ben and Luke look pretty poor even by Tattooine standards, so maybe Chewie either noticed the lightsaber before Ben used it, or sensed something about the old man that reminded him of Yoda.

[Elfdart]

As for the R2 recognizing, it bothers me when people say how powerful Jedi's are/were, yet he couldn't recall a VERY specific R2 unit that his own apprentice had by his side...really, is this believable???? ESPECIALLY when said droid comes looking specifically for Ben when pretty much NOBODY is supposed to know he's there and is a Jedi...you'd think that would prove to some fans that Ben does indeed know exactly whom R2 is.

He didn't say he didn't he didn't recognize R2, only that he couldn't remember owning a droid.

[Eternal_Freedom]

"I don't recall ever owning a droid" - which, funnily enough, he never did. So no lie there.

[cndnheel]

Yeah, I referenced that in my last post, he seemed to be playing sly somewhat when he said it.

It is hard to believe he wouldn't recognize R2 after hearing the message from Leia and putting everything together at that point, he is a Jedi after all...LOL.

"I don't recall ever owning a droid" - which, funnily enough, he never did. So no lie there.

[Batman]

Who says he didn't?

[Jim Raynor]

Jedi can sense some things, but they're not all-knowing. For example, Vader didn't even know that Leia was his own daughter. R2-D2 looks like any other R2 unit out there. And the simple explanation that can be added on top of everything is that ANH Obi-Wan is a many who is deliberately leaving out facts and whitewashing his past. It wouldn't serve him to complicate things by having to talk about his past with R2, and make up even more lies to hold up that house of cards.

[cndnheel]

Now that you bring it up, that was a question I forgot to ask about how it is that Vader can't sense Leia is his daughter. It seems strange that this is so when they are right there together, you'd think he would be able to sense this wouldn't you?

Again, i'm not very knowledgeable with the non movie parts of the SW universe, but this did bother me somewhat about Vader and Leia.

[Formless]

Perhaps it is because Leia didn't know at that time that he was her father? Mind reading is only as useful as the knowledge inside the other person's head, after all. Vader did figure out that Luke had a sister during the throne room duel because Luke was thinking of her. Even then, Vader gave no indication he knew who his daughter was, only that he had one.

[Batman]

Why in Valen's name would he? Him knowing Luke was his son is something of a 'D'uh'. The Skywalker surname was something of a giveaway. There's no indication it was The Force that told him Luke was his son.

[Elfdart]

Why in Valen's name would he? Him knowing Luke was his son is something of a 'D'uh'. The Skywalker surname was something of a giveaway. There's no indication it was The Force that told him Luke was his son.

The combination of "The Force is strong with this one" and the Skywalker name would have sealed it.

[cndnheel]

What good is the Force if you can't even sense a family member right next you though? It just seems far fetched seeing as how powerful the force is portrayed to be.

Perhaps it is because Leia didn't know at that time that he was her father? Mind reading is only as useful as the knowledge inside the other person's head, after all. Vader did figure out that Luke had a sister during the throne room duel because Luke was thinking of her. Even then, Vader gave no indication he knew who his daughter was, only that he had one.

[Formless]

Lets see. You can see the future. You can read minds. You can confuse minds with a wave of your hand. You can levitate objects with your mind. You can control lightning and life itself if you're of a certain disposition. You can increase your body's abilities enough to survive several story falls, stand next to hot lava without being burned, take a robot kick to the chest, jump three times your own height, and react fast enough to catch a blaster bolt in mid air with a tiny shaft of light. And this is presumably but a sampling of things the Jedi and Sith can do, seeing as they consider the Force to be so powerful that blowing up a planet is small potatoes in comparison to what it represents.

Yes, what good is the Force indeed.

[Terralthra]

Refresh my memory, did Anakin/Vader know Padme was carrying twins? Even when the Force tells you something, it's easy to see how if you know it's impossible, you can convince yourself that the Force isn't quite telling that, especially given that those sorts of feelings from the Force tend to be vague anyway.

Vader doesn't know his children survived Mustafar. When he confronts Leia, he feels something, but assumes he's feeling her hiding something or lying to him. When he encounters Luke and Ben on the Death Star near Alderaan, he feels something, but assumes when confronting Obi-Wan that that was it. When he attacks Luke over the Death Star, he feels something, but puts it down to Luke simply being strong in the Force.

When Palpatine (or whoever) clued Darth in, there was no doubt some helmet-slapping involved.

Some of the novels hypothesize that Obi-Wan didn't change Luke's name or anything specifically because he wanted to draw Vader's attention as some sort of trap. Go back to people Vader knows, on the planet he grew up on, with the same last name...problem is that the galaxy is huge, so Vader probably never even noticed. He assumed when Padme died, her children did too. This is only a hypothesis, and it makes as much sense as Obi-Wan closing himself off to Anakin/Vader at the climax of their duel, assuming that the dude he left immolated in lava died, and thus figuring he had no need to hide the kid that carefully; desert planet on the ass end of the galaxy ought to do.

Which is why I wonder about whether he knew she was carrying twins. If he didn't know, it'd be even easier to write off any strange feelings about Leia after he found out about Luke: "I already know who my kid is, shut up, Force!"

[Lord Revan]

nobody knew Padme was carrying twins not even Padme herself (she had ordered the med droids to not tell her such things) and since force gives more a vague sense that there's something familiar about a person (unless you've spent enough time to form a force bond and even then it's not 100%), for all we know Vader did sense something familiar about Leia but dismissed as simply sensing the influence of Bail Organa (Leia's (foster) father).

And as it's already said Jedi and Sith can dissmiss (or even not recive) visions/sensations they "know" to be impossible, that's why Darth Sidious got supriced by Vader's defection in ROTJ, the thought that Vader's love for his son would be greater then his "loyalty" to the Sith Order never occurded to Palpatine.

[cndnheel]

Wow, that was a great post Revan. It explains things more clearly about Leia now for me. The Emperor not realizing that Vader was about to turn on him was a great example.

[Lord Revan]

I dunno how old you are but you seem to have something of a "leaping blindly" problem with your conclutions, often there's a simple explanation why things are the way, like the limits of force users here.

You jumped to the conclution that the force must be useless since vader couldn't sense that Leia was his daughter, when there was in fact a perfectly reasonble explanation for it which people then explained to you, had you asked why he couldn't sense Leia people might have been less hostile with their responses.

and that's just one example, my advice would to "look before you leap", it'll save you from pointless flames (flames because a stupid point on the other hand your on your own with those).