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I loved his turn and wouldnt change a thing.This is why I think Lucas nailed Anakin's character perfectly:
Episode 1:
Anakin is truly gifted, and more importantly, truly happy despite being a slave. He wants to help people, even strangers he just met. He views the Jedi as noble warriors and aspires to be one of them and protect the galaxy. He has a strong relationship with his mother, who in turn cares for him deeply. Qui-Gon becomes a sort of father figure to him as well. He thinks Padme is pretty and the two of them become friends(please note that this relationship isn't sexual or romantic and hence not creepy as some people say). Qui-Gon offers him the opportunity to become a Jedi, his dream. But he is still around ten years old and obviously has trouble parting with his mother. He vows to come back and free her from the life of slavery and has guilt due to leaving her behind. Padme cares for him deeply and takes care of him. Anakin cares too and gives her the carved ornament he made.
Things start to change as soon as they land, but he has Qui-Gon by his side and Padme gives him an assuring smile.
The council is cold towards him and even Yoda criticizes him for missing his mother. He starts to feel bad as he thinks he has become a problem but Qui-Gon assures him otherwise. But by the end, Qui-Gon, his father figure, is dead and also he is parted from Padme as well.

Episode 2:
In the time between episodes 1 & 2, Anakin has been having horrid nightmares of his mother dying but the council doesn't allow him to go and investigate as they think he has to let go of all emotional ties. Obi-Wan, is a by-the-book person and doesn't let him go either. Anakin tries to open up to him about his dreams but Obi-Wan waves it off by saying that they will pass in time. The council is still very cold towards him and doesn't even acknowledge that he is more gifted than the others(not to him anyway). He has been apart from Padme as well. He understands the bureaucracy and the corrupt administration and sees how democracy isn't functioning well. All of this, especially his nightmares about his mother, has altered his personality considerably.
He is finally happy at the prospect of meeting Padme after all these years, the one person he truly still cares about, but when he does meet her she is cold and distant towards him as well.
He is assigned to protect her even though Obi-Wan thinks its a bad idea.
Padme still cares about him and grows to see him in a romantic light as well but bottles up all of those feelings in a box out of fear of what it will do to them if everyone comes to know. Anakin, seeking nothing more than being with the person he loves, thinks it is a risk but backs off when Padme tells him otherwise. He also let's out how the galaxy would be better if a single person, but a good person, was in charge instead of a democracy. He truly does not want to rule mercilessly but instead wants peace and to rid the galaxy of corruption. We learn that he cares for Obi Wan and thinks of him as a father/brother but is disappointed at the fact that he doesn't understand what Anakin is feeling and even thinks that he is holding him back. Something which all of us at one point felt about our parents (teen angst, high school romances, 'I'm capable of handling myself dad" etc") .
His nightmares grow worse and is tortured by them. He goes to Tatooine but is too late. The guilt which he had earlier multiplies 1000x and so does his anger towards Obi Wan and the council as they didn't let him go. He kills the Tusken Raider in a fit of rage but feels incredibly bad about it and is deeply ashamed.Padme understands what he is growing through and comforts him.
Anakin vows to never let this happen again.
By the end, when they are about to die, Padme opens the bottle and lets all her feelings pour out.

Episode 3:
He has grown more mature and his bond with Obi-Wan has deepened. His is trying to get on the council's good side, but I'm vain. He is initially worried when he hears of Padme's pregnancy but then is really happy, as happy as he was in Episode 1.
But then history begins to repeat itself with the nightmares and Anakin is petrified at the thought of it happening again. Anakin goes to Yoda for help, but he instead tells him to rejoice if Padme dies. Padme wants to confide in Obi Wan but Anakin thinks it's a bad idea as he is a by-the-book person. Anakin is paranoid about Padme trusting Obi Wan behind his back.He is placed in a difficult position when asked to spy on the Chancellor, not knowing whom to trust. But when he does find out that the Chancellor is a sith lord, he is willing to kill him. But Mace still doesn't trust him and leaves him behind. Anakin is conflicted at what o do but decides to head to the Chancellor's office and see how things turn out. He doesn't decide anything at this point.he witnesses Mace trying to kill him and violating the Jedi Code (he is more sensitive to following this strictly ever since he killed the Tuskens) but also knows that Palpatine is his only chance of saving Padme and makes an impulse decision to cut off Mace's hand but regrets it soon afterwards. At this point , I feel that the Dark Side is clouding his judgement (notice the way Palpatine says 'gooooooood' and Anakin's sickly face). He is conflicted at killing the children but decides to do what is necessary to save his own wife and kid.
At mustafar, he is weeping and knows that what he has done has made him inhuman, he thinks his mother would disown him if she were alive, Padme would leave him and Obi Wan might kill him. Despite all that, there is his own guilt and the knowledge that he has gone against everything he ever believed in. He tries to assure himself that what he has done is for the good of the galaxy and promises himself to seek retribution by keeping peace and ending the war.

When Padme confronts him, she is willing to look past and turn a blind eye to what he must have done, as she still sees the kid from ep1 and knows that Anakin isn't a bad person. But when Anakin starts to go on about ruling the galaxy, she realises that he truly has changed but still says that she loves him and is willing to forgive all that.Anakin already feels guilty and his paranoia and fears about Padme leaving him for what he done begin to surface when Obi Wan arrives. In a fit of rage, guilt and shame, he chokes Padme. His earlier paranoia about Padme trusting Obi Wan also surfaces.He blames Obi Wan for everything - him not trusting Anakin since ep1, not allowing him to see his mother, not vouching for him at the council, holding him back, and now turning Padme against him. Obi Wan cares for anakin too and puts up a Dam holding back his personal feelings as he knows what has to be done for the good of the galaxy. But the moment he does that and sees the little boy he once knew and cares about (his 'son'/brother) mutilated, crawling on the bank and screaming in pain, his dam breaks down and his emotions overwhelm him. He cannot kill his own kin and leaves him there.
Anakin lives with the knowledge that he killed his own wife and kid and murdered the Jedi. He cannot cope with the guilt and what he has done and puts up a mental block of everything that happened ("that name no longer has any meaning for me" in ROTJ ) . He tries to do his best to maintain peace but his anger(mostly at himself) but is vented at others and his frustrations come out making him the 'evil' guy we know.
By the end, we learn that Obi-Wan and Yoda knew about Anakin's relationship but didn't expel him as they actually cared about him, contrary to what he thought. Even Padme still does by the very end. She doesn't die willingly but the trauma, shock and depression due to what happened coupled with the birthing process was too much for her to take. The thing is that anxiety and depression can reside in the subconscious and affect the body in a very nasty way despite the person fighting against it.
She believes in Anakin and holds on to the ornament he gave her when was a kid, as she and it are buried with Anakin's last bit of humanity.....to be resurrected by his son who cares for him as much as his Padme did.

This is why I feel that Anakin's turn was perfect and is truly a beautiful love story.
I love the imagery as well. The scene where Anakin is on the swoop bike with the two suns in the background(Anakin's light and dark side) and the first shot of the first person view from the bike is amazing. This is what kicks off his eventual turn and that shot signifies him racing towards his destiny. The music makes it even more epic.

@admins/mods
I'm not spamming. Please give me a chance.

Your first attempt at this thread was a one-liner. We disapprove of that sort of thing here, and you might as well learn that early. This thread is better than that, so I approved it. It's really that simple.

I enjoyed his turn as well, and consider him to be the most fleshed-out character in the movies. His attachment issues, simplistic morality, desire to control his own life, and Messiah complex are all rooted in his early years as a powerless slave boy. I really liked his relationship with Obi-Wan in Episode II, which really reflected how strained some father/son relationships can be when two people have very different views in life. Anakin wanted to do better for others, and actually could even if he was reckless at times. Obi-Wan was a close-minded conservative who was all about respect and taking care of business, without the best people skills. He didn't have faith in Anakin, and was always critical even when Anakin was saving his butt. The two of them were both wrong, and both right when they butted heads.

Are you sure there's nternal conflict over killing the younglings? I recall no such conflict but instead an immediate activation of the lightsaber after one asks him what they are going to do.

Jim Raynor wrote:I enjoyed his turn as well, and consider him to be the most fleshed-out character in the movies. His attachment issues, simplistic morality, desire to control his own life, and Messiah complex are all rooted in his early years as a powerless slave boy. I really liked his relationship with Obi-Wan in Episode II, which really reflected how strained some father/son relationships can be when two people have very different views in life. Anakin wanted to do better for others, and actually could even if he was reckless at times. Obi-Wan was a close-minded conservative who was all about respect and taking care of business, without the best people skills. He didn't have faith in Anakin, and was always critical even when Anakin was saving his butt. The two of them were both wrong, and both right when they butted heads.

If only Lucas had put that version in the cinemas.

It was in the movies. I picked up on all of that when I watched the movies for the first time, as a teenager.

Dude, did you grow up with the PT?

Maybe your just better at seeing themes or something but I don't see any of that. I see a happy kid in TPM who becomes a whiny shit and then a psychopath.

Those issues you mention may be there but they are explored so poorly that it doesn't seem to matter. Anikan didn't even seem effected in TPM by being a slave.

And its clear that both Obi-wan and Windu think the boy is dangerous and that Ben only trained him out of obligation to his master. Even Yoda thought it was bad ju-ju.

I saw, in Episode II, the "sullen teenager/upright older fella" stock relationship, which in Episode III has morphed to a "Lethal Weapon buddy-cop" relationship. Of course, nothing really happens to tell us why this happens to Anakin, even in the Tartarkovsky cartoon, apart from the implication that he finally got laid. No actual symbolism is attached to this, of course.

Yeah see, I could buy that Anikan became a nutjob because of slavery. It totally makes sense, but we never see anything besides a mention that he's property. There was no setup.

Like how we're told he and Obi are friends but they don't show us. At least the ot showed the evolution of luke and hans friendship.

As for his fall, the basic problem is that we aren't really sold on Anakin having any attachment to the Jedi Order, so there's not a huge amount of drama here- to go back to cop movies, it's like when the maverick decides to take the case over the objections of the police chief- there's no fucking drama in that. Of course the guy's going to pick his wife over some dudes he's pretty blatantly sullen about, barring Obi-Wan, and then he immediately gets all snarly at Obi-Wan when he turns evil anyways.

In fact, he doesn't fall in the sense of a tragic hero, he falls in the sense of an angel- he goes right to wife-choking, kid-murdering BLATANT EVIL as soon as he makes his choice, which retrospectively makes him seem like a psychotic douchebag all along. Actual drama would probably require his choice being made at the end of Ep II, so that we can devote a good hour and a half to his slide before the climactic duel over lava. But that would require more in media res for Ep I, which isn't really a bad thing, but something worth noting.

Aaron MkII wrote:Dude, did you grow up with the PT?

Maybe your just better at seeing themes or something but I don't see any of that. I see a happy kid in TPM who becomes a whiny shit and then a psychopath.

Those issues you mention may be there but they are explored so poorly that it doesn't seem to matter. Anikan didn't even seem effected in TPM by being a slave.

Haha, I love how you start with "did you grow up with the PT" (in fact I did, as did everyone in their twenties these days) as if that's some kind of insult...then admit that what I mentioned was there...then say that it was poorly done in your opinion which doesn't change the fact that it was there.

People tend to be happier and more carefree in early childhood, compared to their teenagers who are known for being angsty. Do you think that "happy" is a personality type, and that people don't act differently according to the situation? Of course, it's pretty apparent that you're just here to complain.

And its clear that both Obi-wan and Windu think the boy is dangerous and that Ben only trained him out of obligation to his master. Even Yoda thought it was bad ju-ju.

They were undecided on him and decided to honor Qui-Gon's wish at the end. The fact that they didn't fully trust him is kind of the point.

Bakustra wrote:I saw, in Episode II, the "sullen teenager/upright older fella" stock relationship, which in Episode III has morphed to a "Lethal Weapon buddy-cop" relationship. Of course, nothing really happens to tell us why this happens to Anakin, even in the Tartarkovsky cartoon, apart from the implication that he finally got laid. No actual symbolism is attached to this, of course.

The two were joking and buddying around by early Episode II, and Anakin is actually the one trying to keep positive during parts of the chase. But of course Obi-Wan criticized Anakin, so in black-and-white world that means they hated each other and weren't really friends or something. And of course no one should expect the relationship to grow in several years, when Anakin has matured a bit and the age gap was at the root of the problem to begin with.

I see that you don't understand how fiction works. Let me- you've demonstrated clear signs of troperism, so I can skip the introduction and merely pray that you have not yet been ruined, but there was a principle, enumerated by Anton Chekov, which merely says that if there is a gun on the wall in Act 1, it should be fired by the time the curtain closes, and if a gun fires in Act 5, it should have been on the wall in Act 1. This says, to summarize, that you shouldn't let plot threads dangle, and they shouldn't come from nowhere either. So what that means is that if you want to portray a relationship developing, this really ought to happen on camera, especially if it is important to the story, as the Obi-Wan/Anakin relationship is. So all your blubber is stupid as hell.

Actually I asked because it explains your interest, like how I grew up with the OT. If I wanted to insult you it would have contained foul language.

Jesus.

Edit: See this is why its not possible to have a constructive discussion about SW with you. You automatically assume people are against you.

Bakustra wrote:As for his fall, the basic problem is that we aren't really sold on Anakin having any attachment to the Jedi Order, so there's not a huge amount of drama here- to go back to cop movies, it's like when the maverick decides to take the case over the objections of the police chief- there's no fucking drama in that. Of course the guy's going to pick his wife over some dudes he's pretty blatantly sullen about, barring Obi-Wan, and then he immediately gets all snarly at Obi-Wan when he turns evil anyways.

Yeah, Anakin has no attachment to the Jedi, when he had boyhood dreams about becoming one and clearly had a close but brief relationship with Qui-Gon. He doesn't display any caring for Obi-Wan, whom he repeatedly saves and whom he says is like his "father." He didn't really mean it when he described his views of the Jedi to Padme, telling her that the Jedi are defined by compassion. He doesn't continually risk his life and try to take up more responsibilities, as a Jedi.

In fact, he doesn't fall in the sense of a tragic hero, he falls in the sense of an angel- he goes right to wife-choking, kid-murdering BLATANT EVIL as soon as he makes his choice, which retrospectively makes him seem like a psychotic douchebag all along. Actual drama would probably require his choice being made at the end of Ep II, so that we can devote a good hour and a half to his slide before the climactic duel over lava. But that would require more in media res for Ep I, which isn't really a bad thing, but something worth noting.

Funny that you complain about the suddeness of his fall, when it was in keeping with previous canon. ROTJ would have us believe that Luke was on the very verge of falling to the Dark Side after a few minutes of prodding. He was supposedly this close to following Palpatine, his enemy whom he has no relationship with or actual reason to follow. The movies were pretty clear that the Dark Side seizes control of you if you give in to it, and controls your actions.

Bakustra wrote:I see that you don't understand how fiction works. Let me- you've demonstrated clear signs of troperism, so I can skip the introduction and merely pray that you have not yet been ruined, but there was a principle, enumerated by Anton Chekov, which merely says that if there is a gun on the wall in Act 1, it should be fired by the time the curtain closes, and if a gun fires in Act 5, it should have been on the wall in Act 1. This says, to summarize, that you shouldn't let plot threads dangle, and they shouldn't come from nowhere either. So what that means is that if you want to portray a relationship developing, this really ought to happen on camera, especially if it is important to the story, as the Obi-Wan/Anakin relationship is. So all your blubber is stupid as hell.

Yes, because you and one guy can define "how fiction works" for everyone else. The development in their relationship was not some big reversal. They were already caring toward each other and exchanging jokes, in early Episode II. They already saw each other as brothers or father/son. That Anakin and Obi-Wan seemed a bit more at ease with each other in the beginning of Episode III (even though Obi-Wan's still criticizing Anakin for his recklessness, as he had been doing before) is not some massive change. People have good and bad days. They are not narrow sets of emotions or behaviors.

Man, those time skips in the OT were just terrible. Luke goes from a teenage kid swept up in the craziest day of his life to the commander of a fighter squadron with far more refined Force powers. Han turns from a mercenary who had a change of heart to a caring friend who's stuck around for years. Princess Leia, who can't stand Han, suddenly starts making out with him in the course of a single movie, as movie romances tend to go. Han has an old friend Lando who's introduced out of nowhere. Luke is suddenly way more mature in ROTJ, and Han and Lando are suddenly generals who can command entire fleets.

It's not like we can't expect the audience to connect the dots and guess that maybe these characters did things, in the year(s) between movies.

And oh yeah, Leia is Luke's sister even though an attraction was clearly implied in the first two movies. Star Wars (and other movie series) have always operated like this, but of course developments during time jumps were a completely new thing that those sucky prequels made up.

Jim Raynor wrote:Man, those time skips in the OT were just terrible. Luke goes from a teenage kid swept up in the craziest day of his life to the commander of a fighter squadron with far more refined Force powers. Han turns from a mercenary who had a change of heart to a caring friend who's stuck around for years. Princess Leia, who can't stand Han, suddenly starts making out with him in the course of a single movie, as movie romances tend to go. Han has an old friend Lando who's introduced out of nowhere. Luke is suddenly way more mature in ROTJ, and Han and Lando are suddenly generals who can command entire fleets.

It's not like we can't expect the audience to connect the dots and guess that maybe these characters did things, in the year(s) between movies.

And oh yeah, Leia is Luke's sister even though an attraction was clearly implied in the first two movies. Star Wars (and other movie series) have always operated like this, but of course developments during time jumps were a completely new thing that those sucky prequels made up.

So let's see what happens to all of those characters in ANH.

Luke: Becomes pilot, blows up Death Star, learns how to use the Force, witnesses death.

Han: Becomes attracted to Leia, decides to put friendship over money.

Oh gee I wonder how you could develop the characters as seen in ESB from what we see at the end of ANH!

But continuing on through ESB:

Luke: Learns from Yoda, learns truth of parentage, makes rash decision for friends.

Han: Becomes part of Rebellion, acts on feelings towards Leia, gets frozen in carbonite.

Leia: Acts on feelings towards Han.

Also, if you don't get how the Leia/Han relationship in ANH has sexual tension, I'm sure someday someone will explain it to you.

But overall, [sexual reference][object] ... ... dickcake, the point I'm trying to bore into your lithic skull is that these developments are natural consequences of things that happen in the movie. If Luke got a sex-change in between ESB and ROTJ, that would legitimately come out of fucking nowhere because nothing in his character implies this up through ESB, but your moldy little mind would still be defending it.

Jim Raynor wrote:

Bakustra wrote:As for his fall, the basic problem is that we aren't really sold on Anakin having any attachment to the Jedi Order, so there's not a huge amount of drama here- to go back to cop movies, it's like when the maverick decides to take the case over the objections of the police chief- there's no fucking drama in that. Of course the guy's going to pick his wife over some dudes he's pretty blatantly sullen about, barring Obi-Wan, and then he immediately gets all snarly at Obi-Wan when he turns evil anyways.

Yeah, Anakin has no attachment to the Jedi, when he had boyhood dreams about becoming one and clearly had a close but brief relationship with Qui-Gon. He doesn't display any caring for Obi-Wan, whom he repeatedly saves and whom he says is like his "father." He didn't really mean it when he described his views of the Jedi to Padme, telling her that the Jedi are defined by compassion. He doesn't continually risk his life and try to take up more responsibilities, as a Jedi.

Another one who doesn't understand tone of voice.

In fact, he doesn't fall in the sense of a tragic hero, he falls in the sense of an angel- he goes right to wife-choking, kid-murdering BLATANT EVIL as soon as he makes his choice, which retrospectively makes him seem like a psychotic douchebag all along. Actual drama would probably require his choice being made at the end of Ep II, so that we can devote a good hour and a half to his slide before the climactic duel over lava. But that would require more in media res for Ep I, which isn't really a bad thing, but something worth noting.

Funny that you complain about the suddeness of his fall, when it was in keeping with previous canon. ROTJ would have us believe that Luke was on the very verge of falling to the Dark Side after a few minutes of prodding. He was supposedly this close to following Palpatine, his enemy whom he has no relationship with or actual reason to follow. The movies were pretty clear that the Dark Side seizes control of you if you give in to it, and controls your actions.

No, they're not, because in ROTJ and ESB, you have to deliberately choose to do the wrong thing, to take wrong actions, to fall to the Dark Side, and we don't see what happens if you do, and it's implied to be something slow by Yoda. Luke nearly falls because of his rage at the possibility of Vader and Palpatine hurting Leia. Anakin falls because he doesn't want his wife to die. See the difference? PS Palpatine repeatedly fucks himself over in the course of ROTJ, using him as an authoritative source is hilarious.

Yes, Luke, the newbie kid literally hearing about the Jedi for the first time that day in ANH, is suddenly a telekinetic swordsman in TESB. You say that he learned to use the Force. When exactly? Oh yeah, in the several years between ANH and TESB. Who taught him? Why weren't we shown this training, and Luke's discover of Jedi teachings? Isn't this stuff important? We should've seen it! And all of a sudden, one year after we saw Luke crying like a baby while clutching his sliced off arm, he's suddenly the solemn, mature one in the group. The leader of the group, when in ANH he was the kid, and in TESB he didn't even get to do anything with Han and Leia. Way more powerful and skilled than he was before, enough to beat Vader even though Vader was pretty much toying with him in TESB.

Shouldn't we have seen this stuff? Seems like a way bigger change than Anakin and Obi-Wan being a bit more upbeat in ROTS. Man, that original trilogy just kept cutting corners. Movies can't cut corners while telling their stories for entertainment, not ever.

And as for sexual tension, I think I sensed some of that between Luke and Leia. I hope I don't have to explain that to you. Somehow in ROTJ, she's "always known" that she's his sister and the entire love triangle evaporates into thin air.

Bakustra wrote:dickcake

Keep it classy.

Bakustra wrote:Another one who doesn't understand tone of voice.

Your point, exactly? Expressing some dissatisfaction in the tone of your voice means you don't give a crap at all? Is that what you're saying? I heard a kid griping just today. Clearly he hates his family and doesn't care about them one bit.

No, they're not, because in ROTJ and ESB, you have to deliberately choose to do the wrong thing, to take wrong actions, to fall to the Dark Side, and we don't see what happens if you do, and it's implied to be something slow by Yoda.

"Once you go down the Dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny"

Luke nearly falls because of his rage at the possibility of Vader and Palpatine hurting Leia.

Yes, so slow. All one fight and several minutes of it. One line about Leia nearly sends Luke over the edge. Palpatine fully expected this to convert Luke into his servant.

Luke, BTW, doesn't have 1% of Anakin's issues or motivations to join the Dark Side.

PS Palpatine repeatedly fucks himself over in the course of ROTJ, using him as an authoritative source is hilarious.

Oh, Palpatine's a stupid movie villain in ROTJ. It's a pretty sad indictment of the movie's plot to jump from that, to saying that he's completely clueless and about how the Dark Side works.

Jim Raynor wrote:Yes, Luke, the newbie kid literally hearing about the Jedi for the first time that day in ANH, is suddenly a telekinetic swordsman in TESB. You say that he learned to use the Force. When exactly? Oh yeah, in the several years between ANH and TESB. Who taught him? Why weren't we shown this training, and Luke's discover of Jedi teachings? Isn't this stuff important? We should've seen it! And all of a sudden, one year after we saw Luke crying like a baby while clutching his sliced off arm, he's suddenly the solemn, mature one in the group. The leader of the group, when in ANH he was the kid, and in TESB he didn't even get to do anything with Han and Leia. Way more powerful and skilled than he was before, enough to beat Vader even though Vader was pretty much toying with him in TESB.

Shouldn't we have seen this stuff? Seems like a way bigger change than Anakin and Obi-Wan being a bit more upbeat in ROTS. Man, that original trilogy just kept cutting corners. Movies can't cut corners while telling their stories for entertainment, not ever.

And as for sexual tension, I think I sensed some of that between Luke and Leia. I hope I don't have to explain that to you. Somehow in ROTJ, she's "always known" that she's his sister and the entire love triangle evaporates into thin air.

He learns to use the Force when he uses it to blow up the Death Star, you hyperventilating little toad. That's what that scene represents. I mean, I know you have problems with looking at movies beyond your own misinterpretations of the surface, but in that case you should shut the hell up before typing, fucko. In fact, you missed the entire point of my post, so you should keep hopping till it hits you, toady. If it ever will.

Bakustra wrote:dickcake

Keep it classy.

I do not think that word means what you think it means.

Bakustra wrote:He learns to use the Force when he uses it to blow up the Death Star, you hyperventilating little toad. That's what that scene represents.

Because clearly, using the Force to time one momentary torpedo shot is the same thing as swordsmanship, telekinesis, Force jumps, and commanding a fighter squadron. I saw a video on proper free throw shooting technique the other day, and tried it at the park. A movie about my pro basketball career should end on that. The sequel should pick up with me tearing it up in the big leagues.

you should shut the hell up before typing, fucko.

You're clearly mad.

In fact, you missed the entire point of my post, so you should keep hopping till it hits you, toady.

And misunderstood, in your mind.

I do not think that word means what you think it means.

Yeah, not weird or trying to expand the flame war at all, by running a search on somebody else's posts. I wonder what will come up if I did that with you?

You already did it and couldn't find anything juicy enough, but you miss that I was pointing out hypocrisy where you complain about sexual insults while using them yourself. Unless you don't know what "douche" means, my hopping little amphibian.

PS: The entire point of the Yoda sequence and Luke trying several times to get his lightsaber in the cave is that Luke is still playing in the minor leagues. You still have no fucking clue about the movies themselves. Please stop embarrassing yourself.

Bakustra wrote:You already did it and couldn't find anything juicy enough,

HAHAHA, you just made my day.

PS: The entire point of the Yoda sequence and Luke trying several times to get his lightsaber in the cave is that Luke is still playing in the minor leagues. You still have no fucking clue about the movies themselves. Please stop embarrassing yourself.

What's embarassing is that you won't acknowledge that Luke acquires entire new skillsets (and a new attitude) denoting years of training and maturation between movies. But of course, his limitations in TESB show that he was just as noob as when he first heard of the Jedi in ANH.

Just admit it. OT Star Wars is just a set of movies, not a sacred cow that's beyond criticism (if you can even call what I'm saying in this thread about it "criticism"). Movie sequels set years apart will show changes in the characters, as a norm. Because few people want a sequel set immediately after the previous movie, with the character still not changed yet because everything needs to be tediously spelled out onscreen as if the audience is too stupid to fill in the blanks.