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Let's say that Jorus Cboath exposed to the Jedi Council as a madman, and is quickly expelled and punished as they see fit. Somehow, the inertia of the Outbound Flight project is funded, and continues to leave the galaxy, with or without Jedi. It continues on, missing Thrawn's flotilla and continues on its path. What happens from that point on?

I imagine that Palpatine would dispatch a fleet after them in RotS's aftermath (does the Outbound Flight regulary Coruscant on where it's going?), if he hadn't already gotten the Separatists to chase them down.

Wouldn't they be rather far out of the galaxy by that point?

Depends on what they actually find. Several fanfics postulate the idea that it goes through a wormhole into the Milky Way.

Or they run into the Vong and promptly get blown up.


Isn't that the justification that Palpy used to convince Thrawn and Co. to blow it up in the first place? Granted its been some time since I read that book.

That was the reason they gave. But you know the Sith...probably had his own reasons and he just "said" it was the Vong. I don't think we know if the galaxy Outbound was heading to was even the same galaxy the Vong came from.

Thrawn was aware of the Vong to begin with. Wookiepedia says that Palpatine wanted it destroyed because getting noticed by the Vong at that point would turn out poorly, and that's why he contacted Thrawn about it. For Thrawn's part, he wanted to convince them to not keep going like that but they wouldn't listen. Killing them all was a last resort.

Palpatine, of course, wanted to get rid of some Jedi, which is why he even sent them that way in the first place. He figured he could send them that way and get them killed. If his primary concern had been the Vong he wouldn't have even let Outbound Flight be a go to begin with.

Do people not understand how space works? Why the fuck did someone decide to place the Vong on the EXACT SAME OUT OF A TRILLION different trajectories as the Outbound flight? Which "writer" thought that would be cool and awesome?

Havok wrote:Do people not understand how space works? Why the fuck did someone decide to place the Vong on the EXACT SAME OUT OF A TRILLION different trajectories as the Outbound flight? Which "writer" thought that would be cool and awesome?

Perhaps it was just the closest major galaxy? Coincidence?

I'm not sure they would definitely run into the Vong, but I did think it warranted bringing up. Honestly, I think it just made a convenient excuse for stopping it. The odds of them running into the Vong are so slim as to not even be funny.


EDIT: They would run into the Vong a long time before they hit their home galaxy though wouldn't they? Didn't a Vong scout run into the Mando's back in the KOTOR time period?

As I recall, the Vong were already in-between galaxies due to their lack of hyperdrive. Their home galaxy would have been deserted.

Skywalker_T-65 wrote:EDIT: They would run into the Vong a long time before they hit their home galaxy though wouldn't they? Didn't a Vong scout run into the Mando's back in the KOTOR time period?

Yeah, Canderous said something about that in one of the Mandalorian Wars anecdotes you get from him in KOTOR1. They ran into a probe that looked like an asteroid, killed a bunch of Mandos, and then fled past the edge of the galaxy.

Borgholio wrote:As I recall, the Vong were already in-between galaxies due to their lack of hyperdrive. Their home galaxy would have been deserted.

Wat?

The Vong most certainly do have hyperdrive, and of comparable speeds to SW ships: Per NGVEV, an Imperial II-class mounts a Class 2 hyperdrive, while a Vong worldship is equivalent to a Class 1.5, half a factor faster. But even that's slow for intergalactic travel on basis of pure math (not even getting into the "hyperspace disturbance around the galaxy" thing that has been mentioned a couple of times, I once calculated that at speeds of IIRC 2.5 million c, roughly SW speed range, it would take six months to reach Andromeda from Earth).

Ok I guess this can be counted as one of the inconsistencies in the EU. Their backstory says it took them centuries to cross between galaxies after they ruined their home galaxy in a civil war. With hyperdrive speed at 1.5, it should not have taken nearly that long.

Havok wrote:Do people not understand how space works? Why the fuck did someone decide to place the Vong on the EXACT SAME OUT OF A TRILLION different trajectories as the Outbound flight? Which "writer" thought that would be cool and awesome?

Bullshit in-universe justification: Because the Force or something. Palpatine supposedly had a shitton of foresight (emphasis on supposedly) so he could have had the Force tell him "Go this way and you'll run into a group the galaxy isn't ready for." Or something. Who knows? What are the odds they'd cross into Chiss space, for that matter? Any time there's some sort of "What are the odds of this?" thing going on it can be bullshitted as the will of the Force or something. Doesn't mean it's a good excuse, though.

Bullshit out-of-universe justification: Because plot.

Borgholio wrote:Ok I guess this can be counted as one of the inconsistencies in the EU. Their backstory says it took them centuries to cross between galaxies after they ruined their home galaxy in a civil war. With hyperdrive speed at 1.5, it should not have taken nearly that long.

Maybe. We don't know where their home galaxy actually is relative to the GFFA, though. Wouldn't take much handwaving to put it on the other side of the galactic cluster from there.

Napoleon the Clown wrote:

Havok wrote:Do people not understand how space works? Why the fuck did someone decide to place the Vong on the EXACT SAME OUT OF A TRILLION different trajectories as the Outbound flight? Which "writer" thought that would be cool and awesome?

Bullshit in-universe justification: Because the Force or something. Palpatine supposedly had a shitton of foresight (emphasis on supposedly) so he could have had the Force tell him "Go this way and you'll run into a group the galaxy isn't ready for." Or something. Who knows? What are the odds they'd cross into Chiss space, for that matter? Any time there's some sort of "What are the odds of this?" thing going on it can be bullshitted as the will of the Force or something. Doesn't mean it's a good excuse, though.

Bullshit out-of-universe justification: Because plot.

You know, there's a joke over on TV Tropes that the Force is the plot. Funny how a lot of things start to make more sense if you switch the two words.

May the plot be with you.

So the Force told Palpatine all about the one group of people in the universe that the Force can't see and has no connection to...

Yes, because fuck logic. Apparently the Vong (or mention of them, whodafuqknows) were retconned into the Thrawn trilogy and Zahn was trying to figure out a way to make it tie together. Or something. I don't know. I'm not gonna pretend it's a good excuse.

I hate shit like that. It's the EXPANDED universe yet everyone of importance in this huge fucking galaxy seems to know one another and all events are somehow connected no matter how random. It's why I can't wait for JJ to take a huge wet dump on it all like he did with Star Trek. Only this time he doesn't have to worry about Paramount being terrified of angry fans and their precious continuity because it's all shitty books and comics.

StarSword wrote:

Borgholio wrote:Ok I guess this can be counted as one of the inconsistencies in the EU. Their backstory says it took them centuries to cross between galaxies after they ruined their home galaxy in a civil war. With hyperdrive speed at 1.5, it should not have taken nearly that long.

Maybe. We don't know where their home galaxy actually is relative to the GFFA, though. Wouldn't take much handwaving to put it on the other side of the galactic cluster from there.

It was explicitly stated in the NJO series that the Vong were travelling at sublight because their worldships were mostly too weak to make a hyperspace jump of that length. This is why they were building a new one at Sernpidal which then got blown away. That should have seriously screwed things up but apparently it got forgotten about.

They were relatively close to the GFFA 50 years before their invasion, when their scouts first encountered Zonama Sekot. Supreme Overlord Quoreal learned of this and decided to steer the convoy to a new galaxy rather than face this relic of their abandoned home. Shimmra promptly eposed him and the invasion proceeded as planned.

Napoleon the Clown wrote:Thrawn was aware of the Vong to begin with. Wookiepedia says that Palpatine wanted it destroyed because getting noticed by the Vong at that point would turn out poorly, and that's why he contacted Thrawn about it. For Thrawn's part, he wanted to convince them to not keep going like that but they wouldn't listen. Killing them all was a last resort.

Palpatine, of course, wanted to get rid of some Jedi, which is why he even sent them that way in the first place. He figured he could send them that way and get them killed. If his primary concern had been the Vong he wouldn't have even let Outbound Flight be a go to begin with.

I interpreted it as being that Palpatine (or Kinman) was quick enough on the take to know how to press Thrawn's buttons.

I know zero about the Vong or Outbound Flight and whatnot... but would it be possible that if one ship was heading towards the galaxy the Vong were leaving that at least one of the two groups might have sensors strong enough to detect the other group?

I mean, space is freaking huge and the odds of even getting within a few parsecs of eachother would be highly unlikely, but Star Wars has some crazy FTL travel, the Vong were obviously equipped to embark on their inter-galactic journey, and the space between galaxies would be pretty sparse relatively speaking. Would it be possible that at least one of them would get a "ping" on the presence of the other (even with force powers) and move to investigate?

Rossum wrote:I know zero about the Vong or Outbound Flight and whatnot... but would it be possible that if one ship was heading towards the galaxy the Vong were leaving that at least one of the two groups might have sensors strong enough to detect the other group?

I mean, space is freaking huge and the odds of even getting within a few parsecs of eachother would be highly unlikely, but Star Wars has some crazy FTL travel, the Vong were obviously equipped to embark on their inter-galactic journey, and the space between galaxies would be pretty sparse relatively speaking. Would it be possible that at least one of them would get a "ping" on the presence of the other (even with force powers) and move to investigate?

The Vong have no presence in the Force so the Jedi can't sense them. Now, on a populated planet (or anything with life on it0 they can sense the absence of life, but why would they be surprised by an absence of life in intergalactic space?

As for bumping into each other, well, there are a shitload of galaxies other than the SW one. The Vong came from one (unspecified) galaxy, Outbound Flight is heading for another (unspecified) one. The odds of he two being the same are, literally, astronomical. Granted, in the Outbound Flight book Sidious told Thrawn that the mission would encounter the Vong before the galaxy was ready, but I question whether that's true. Outbound Flight was aiming to leave the galaxy through the Chiss territory having left Yaga Minor, the Vong arrived near Helska and Sernpidal, which according to the maps, is something like a quarter of the way around the galaxies' edge from the Chiss territory. which means its a good 85,000 light years away. I think it was just Sidious playing Thrawn after some Force-intuition (or his own spies/reconnaissance) told him the Chiss had met the Vong already.

Yeah, its fairly likely that good old Palps was just manipulating Thrawn like he does with anyone else. More likely than him being honest I would think.

The question then becomes, WHY would he manipulate Thrawn? He pretty much has his loyalty 100%. It's not like Anakin who he has to turn to his way of thinking.

Palpatine is still the leader or the galaxy and honesty probably suits his goals better at higher levels than manipulation.

Havok wrote:The question then becomes, WHY would he manipulate Thrawn? He pretty much has his loyalty 100%. It's not like Anakin who he has to turn to his way of thinking.

Palpatine is still the leader or the galaxy and honesty probably suits his goals better at higher levels than manipulation.

Uh, Hav? We're talking about Outbound Flight. This was before the Clone Wars. Thrawn wasn't an Imp yet.