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1. How numerous were the Vong and how many ships and of what types did they field?

2. It was revealed that Onimi had force powers and could manipulate the Supreme Overlord. Ok but aren't the Vong severed from the Force, essentially making them immune to direct force powers? How the hell did he succeed?

3. How did they do so well against the SW galaxy?

Given that apparently pretty much all of them could live on Zonama Sekot ie just one planet, how is it that they managed to threaten the SW galaxy with millions of inhabited worlds?

4. Those Vong devices which telepathically coordinate their attacks in a manner similar to Jedi Battle Meditation... are their telepathic powers based on the Force or something else?

3. This is the easiest to answer. The New Republic was so incompetent and divided against itself that it was unable to provide a united front against the invading force. That and Vong infiltrators also kept them from uniting.

There's a reason Thrawn joined the Empire and tried to unite the galaxy under it, he was preparing the galaxy for a brutal invasion and wanted to keep the galaxy as intact as possible, very much like how Revan was trying to do the same with the Republic a few thousand years earlier in preparation for the True Sith invasion.

1. I don't know the exact size, but here's a snippet from the wiki:

New Republic Intelligence noted that in the initial stages of the war, that the Yuuzhan Vong possessed thousands of capital ships that traveled in flotillas of up to seventy five vessels. Amongst their ranks were warships that were the equivalent of Super Star Destroyers with firepower levels that were the equivalent of the heaviest turbolasers and ion cannons. [10]

So had the Republic actually been united at the start, they probably could have crushed the invasion far easier.

The answer to 4. seems to be yes, because Onimi got his powers from injecting himself with part of their brain and they seemed to use a form of telepathy to break the first Jedi they captured.

The Essential Guide to Warfare also mentions that the Republic Fleet commanders kept waiting for an opportunity for a "decisive battle" and held back major portions of the fleet for this purpose. Sound similar to the Japanese "decisive battle" doctrine.

As to Question #2, yeah, that's always bugged me.

I thought it would have made more sense if they had just stuck with Vergere's theory -- that the Vong's absence in the Force was simply them being tuned into a different aspect of it.

mr friendly guy wrote:1. How numerous were the Vong and how many ships and of what types did they field?

I don't think we ever got any hard numerical value on their population (and given that the SW writers from Lucas on down tend to fuck those up anyway, I'm not sure I'd believe them if we did). However, they were few enough in number that by roughly Enemy Lines they'd blown enough troops on human wave tactics that they were starting to have trouble holding onto their conquests (by which point they'd basically only conquered a cylindrical swathe running from the Outer Rim to Coruscant). That, more than anything else, I think, is what allowed the GFFA to turn the tide.

What kinds of ships they had is easier to answer: They had analogs for basically everything in the GFFA arsenal, up to and including SSD-size ships like Shedao Shai's flagship Legacy of Torment. We can probably assume similar proportions in their fleet composition (i.e. more ships in the high hundreds of meters, fewer ISD-size ships, and only a very few SSD-size worldships and kor chokk like Shai's flagship).

2. It was revealed that Onimi had force powers and could manipulate the Supreme Overlord. Ok but aren't the Vong severed from the Force, essentially making them immune to direct force powers? How the hell did he succeed?

I forget the details but Onimi had somehow managed to reacquire Force powers.

3. How did they do so well against the SW galaxy?

Given that apparently pretty much all of them could live on Zonama Sekot ie just one planet, how is it that they managed to threaten the SW galaxy with millions of inhabited worlds?

As early as The Hand of Thrawn the central government of the New Republic was already pretty weak (supposedly because the controlling political party or similar was afraid a strong Coruscant would lead them down a slippery slope to turning into the Empire). The Vong had a lot of sympathizers and appeasers like the Peace Brigade and Viqi Shesh who were trying to divide the NR further, either because they were misguided Neville Chamberlain analogs or because they were on the invaders' payroll (or in some cases, were Vong in disguise).

There was also that rather stupid strawman-ridden schism in the Jedi Order over whether or not using leftover Imperial superweapons and WMDs was acceptable.

4. Those Vong devices which telepathically coordinate their attacks in a manner similar to Jedi Battle Meditation... are their telepathic powers based on the Force or something else?

You thinking of the yammosk or the villip? Either way, probably either psi powers (those exist in SW independent of the Force), or quantum technobabble.

atg wrote:The Essential Guide to Warfare also mentions that the Republic Fleet commanders kept waiting for an opportunity for a "decisive battle" and held back major portions of the fleet for this purpose. Sound similar to the Japanese "decisive battle" doctrine.

And unlike the Japanese, it actually succeeded, eventually. See Ebaq 9 in Destiny's Way, which I point to as the real turning point of the Yuuzhan Vong War. The NR and Imperial Remnant managed to trap and destroy several Vong battle groups and kill Tsavong Lah.

I was thinking of the yammosk actually.

AS for estimating numbers/strength etc, well, Destiny's Way gives us two statements, one from each side. Admiral Ackbar estimates (based on New Republic intelligence) that the Vong had lost almsot a third of their warriors by that point in the war.

Shimmrra points out tot he Grand Council (or whatever it is called) that the destruction of Komm Karsh' fleet over Obra-Skai removed the last of their strategic reserves. "From this moment on, moving any warrior to strengthen one position means weakening another."

Also, every domain seems to have a worldship, and we hear many dozens of Domains being mentioned. Plus that huge new one they were building at Sernpidal, that apparently was big enough "to eat Death Stars for breakfast." But it was blown up by a couple of fighter squadrons and a single Bothan Assault Cruiser, so, yeah.

Eternal_Freedom wrote:Also, every domain seems to have a worldship, and we hear many dozens of Domains being mentioned. Plus that huge new one they were building at Sernpidal, that apparently was big enough "to eat Death Stars for breakfast." But it was blown up by a couple of fighter squadrons and a single Bothan Assault Cruiser, so, yeah.

Presumably it was geared towards dealing with large-scale threats but had weaknesses that could be exploited by smaller ships and fighters.

It's not exactly without precedent in Star Wars.

Note: Haven't read the NJO in a long time

I think the Sernipdal worldship was geared to housing Vong civilians (hence why Jaina was a bit teed off when she discovered that Kyp hadn't been exactly forthcoming on the matter).

Whilst that's certainly true, it's the sheer size disparity between the two forces. one one hand you have an enormous flying space city type thing which would probably be comparable to a small dwarf planet...and it's blown up (not wrecked, blown up by volleys of torpedoes from a ~1km cruiser. Unless Kre'fey had secretly purloined some planet-cracking warheads it seems silly that it coudl be done without exploiting some weakness a la the DS1. But no such weakness is ever mentioned, it's just brute force. Bah humbug.

Eternal_Freedom wrote:Whilst that's certainly true, it's the sheer size disparity between the two forces. one one hand you have an enormous flying space city type thing which would probably be comparable to a small dwarf planet...and it's blown up (not wrecked, blown up by volleys of torpedoes from a ~1km cruiser. Unless Kre'fey had secretly purloined some planet-cracking warheads it seems silly that it coudl be done without exploiting some weakness a la the DS1. But no such weakness is ever mentioned, it's just brute force. Bah humbug.

Yeah, well, NJO had an awful lot of other scale problems. My favorite part is where Sernpidal not only orbits its sun at the same distance Luna orbits Earth, but is also the third planet of the system.

That's...impossible. Just, pant's-on-head, pencils-in-nostrils insane.

While I hate the NJO with a passion and it's the reason I gave up on the Wars EU about halfway through this is so abominably stupid even by Wars EU standards that I feel required to ask for a quote. I mean seriously, this makes Qu'nos being slightly behind the Oort cloud thanks to the ENT opener look downright sensible by comparison.

Batman wrote:While I hate the NJO with a passion and it's the reason I gave up on the Wars EU about halfway through this is so abominably stupid even by Wars EU standards that I feel required to ask for a quote. I mean seriously, this makes Qu'nos being slightly behind the Oort cloud thanks to the ENT opener look downright sensible by comparison.

Unfortunately I don't have my copy of Vector Prime handy, but Wookieepedia sez its orbital distance is 115,000 km. Oh, and according to The Essential Atlas it's somehow the fifth planet of the system.

In the words of Tucker, "That doesn't seem physically possible."

115000 km is less than half Luna's distance. If there were four other planets in that system it would be incredibly fucked up. I don't think even the dimmest red dwarf star has a habitable zone that close in.