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I'm bored, so I've decided to chronicle the mistakes made by Jango Fett in AOTC. Critisisms welcome.

1.)Not seeing the long-term outcome of his actions
Fett makes a clone army using his template, knowing that it is for the Republic and would be used against the Seperatists. So what does he do? Becomes a bodyguard for Dooku, leader of the Seperatists? Smart move, buddy. Had he lived to see the Battle of Genosis, chances are he would've been gunned down by the armyhehelped create.

2.)The Rumble in the Rain
So Fett sees the Slave 1 coming about, guns rotating towards Obi-Wan, and he fires his missle? Wouldn't it have been smarter to wait until the lasers fired, and Obi-Wan was down to attack him? This is forgivable, but his next mistake makes zero sense.

Obi-Wan has just been blasted all to hell by missles and lasers, Fett has an advantage that A.) Kenobi may still be recovering, and B.) He still is out of Obi-Wans range. So, disregarding all common sense, he flysright downto Obi-Wan so he can kick him? Thats right he decided to do this instead of just standing up on the platform shooting at the tusseled up Obi-Wan.

Obi-Wan reaches for his lightsaber and Fett grapples his arms together with his whip-chord. So instead of actually shooting his carptured prey (his flamethrower wasn't broken of anything), he flys around for a while until Obi-Wan reaches the pole.

3.)Geonosis Arena
Mace Windu has just been knocked down by the Reek. Perfect chance for Fett to shoot him with his missle or blasters from a distance at his defensless enemy. Nope, too easy. He flysright downto Windu (inspiring a bewildered look from Dooku also, he knew it was stupid too )so that hes well within range should Windu attack. Maybe Windu could've dodged his shots from a range? Fine. So he flys right up to him and instead ofshootingthe bastard, he DIVES for Windu's lightsaber? Common sense is still zero. Jango does know Jedi can use TK, so that leaping for the blade could prove fruitless, so instead of killing his enemy he sets himself up for his eventual demise.

There you have it folks. Jango Fett is a nitwit. His son Boba (through tales of the EU) seems to be much better at what he does, as his father inteneded it to be.

Yep, Jango broke one of the golden rules:

"Don't fuck with a Jedi Master son!"

With regards to your first point, Jango was working specifically for Darth Tyranus, not the Seperatists. He was just a pawn used by Darth Sidious to play both sides against each other.

Obviously he's not only supremely overconfident, he also suffers from the "warrior code" syndrome that also infected the Predator in the movie of the same name... give your enemy a chance to make the fight last longer (even if it means your undoing) when simply doing one simple thing would kill him and win the fight... because you're too "honorable."

Of course somebody like the Predator or the Fetts are anything BUT honorable, but they still have this psychological complex about this thing in their own twisted way. Heh. ; )


'Course it makes for better drama if the combatants aren't TOO smart.

Darth Garden Gnome wrote:
1.)Not seeing the long-term outcome of his actions
Fett makes a clone army using his template, knowing that it is for the Republic and would be used against the Seperatists. So what does he do? Becomes a bodyguard for Dooku, leader of the Seperatists? Smart move, buddy. Had he lived to see the Battle of Genosis, chances are he would've been gunned down by the armyhehelped create.

Fett was a mercenary. He was more interested in getting paid not about the long-term outcome of his actions.

paladin wrote:

Darth Garden Gnome wrote:
1.)Not seeing the long-term outcome of his actions
Fett makes a clone army using his template, knowing that it is for the Republic and would be used against the Seperatists. So what does he do? Becomes a bodyguard for Dooku, leader of the Seperatists? Smart move, buddy. Had he lived to see the Battle of Genosis, chances are he would've been gunned down by the armyhehelped create.

Fett was a mercenary. He was more interested in getting paid not about the long-term outcome of his actions.

Yes, note when Lama Su or whatever the guy's name was said they "paid a considerable sum" to Jango Just bring money no questions ask.

Cyaround,
Jason

Kurgan wrote:Obviously he's not only supremely overconfident, he also suffers from the "warrior code" syndrome that also infected the Predator in the movie of the same name... give your enemy a chance to make the fight last longer (even if it means your undoing) when simply doing one simple thing would kill him and win the fight... because you're too "honorable."

Of course somebody like the Predator or the Fetts are anything BUT honorable, but they still have this psychological complex about this thing in their own twisted way. Heh. ; )


'Course it makes for better drama if the combatants aren't TOO smart.

Actually it's a bit different in Predator. It's not war, it's a hunt. So it makes sense to make it a bit easier for your prey. After all, you could hunt a deer with a rocket launcher, but where's the challenge in that?

As for Fett, he probably is pretty confident in his abilities, perhaps overconfident.

It would seem like he could have wiped out a lot of Jedi had he played his cards right, with all his weaponry.

You do have a point about the whole "hunt" thing. Predator feels he's in control and his enemy has no chance against him, so he does stuff to avoid boring himself (to his undoing). He did this to Dutch, the last of the marines, so he wanted to make it extra special before he went home.

Then again, while I haven't read all of Fett's adventures in the EU, doesn't Boba view his "quarry" as something of a contest or "hunt" as well? This philosophy may have been something that his father shared as well.

Though you'd think such an overconfident bungler wouldn't last long in a galaxy full of dangerous characters... oh well. Maybe Jedi are something he hasn't faced before, and he gets too carried away. ; )

There's a difference between being incompetent and being overconfident, and being highly skilled and overconfident.

Keep in mind that even with his mistakes, Jengo would have flown out of range of Mace Windu, we see him activate his Jet Pack, but it only sparks due to the damage inflicted on it. Him and Boba seem to have back luck when it comes to those Jet packs....

Im guessing jango was informed to a limited degree, and paid hansomely to keep his mouth shut.

Yeah, it's been bothering me for a long time that Jango ignores half his armament throughout the movie. Obi-Wan could have been dispatched so much easier if he went to wrist rockets or darts or something. Same thing with Mace. (this is hypothetical. If they weren't able to avoid those attacks) But to dive for his lightsaber? That was just stupid. He could have at least shot it so it was useless.

At the very least, Jango gets a far better "death" than Boba (Yes, I know...he gets out of the Sarlacc).

neoolong wrote:After all, you could hunt a deer with a rocket launcher, but where's the challenge in that?

I dunno, it's not that easy to wield a rocket launcher in the forrest, quite large and clumsy and if your first shot miss, it takes time to reload.
Secondly you have to be a very good shot to hit the deer in such a way that you don't destroy most of the flesh on it, and/or so that you can take trophies.

I disagree; a HEAT round like a normal anti-tank rocket (I'm thinking Karl Gustav or RPG here) shouldn't have a great deal of collateral damage when fired into a soft target.

Darth Garden Gnome wrote:I'm bored, so I've decided to chronicle the mistakes made by Jango Fett in AOTC. Critisisms welcome.

1.)Not seeing the long-term outcome of his actions
Fett makes a clone army using his template, knowing that it is for the Republic and would be used against the Seperatists. So what does he do? Becomes a bodyguard for Dooku, leader of the Seperatists? Smart move, buddy. Had he lived to see the Battle of Genosis, chances are he would've been gunned down by the armyhehelped create.

2.)The Rumble in the Rain
So Fett sees the Slave 1 coming about, guns rotating towards Obi-Wan, and he fires his missle? Wouldn't it have been smarter to wait until the lasers fired, and Obi-Wan was down to attack him? This is forgivable, but his next mistake makes zero sense.

Obi-Wan has just been blasted all to hell by missles and lasers, Fett has an advantage that A.) Kenobi may still be recovering, and B.) He still is out of Obi-Wans range. So, disregarding all common sense, he flysright downto Obi-Wan so he can kick him? Thats right he decided to do this instead of just standing up on the platform shooting at the tusseled up Obi-Wan.

Obi-Wan reaches for his lightsaber and Fett grapples his arms together with his whip-chord. So instead of actually shooting his carptured prey (his flamethrower wasn't broken of anything), he flys around for a while until Obi-Wan reaches the pole.

3.)Geonosis Arena
Mace Windu has just been knocked down by the Reek. Perfect chance for Fett to shoot him with his missle or blasters from a distance at his defensless enemy. Nope, too easy. He flysright downto Windu (inspiring a bewildered look from Dooku also, he knew it was stupid too )so that hes well within range should Windu attack. Maybe Windu could've dodged his shots from a range? Fine. So he flys right up to him and instead ofshootingthe bastard, he DIVES for Windu's lightsaber? Common sense is still zero. Jango does know Jedi can use TK, so that leaping for the blade could prove fruitless, so instead of killing his enemy he sets himself up for his eventual demise.

There you have it folks. Jango Fett is a nitwit. His son Boba (through tales of the EU) seems to be much better at what he does, as his father inteneded it to be.

In order, then:

1. Jango probably didn't know that he was part of a larger conspiracy. All he's contracted to do is: provide some DNA, for cloning purposes, for which he's well paid; kick a little ass now and then, for which he's well paid; and hang around as a consultant, for which he's probably well paid. None of this requires any specific knowledge of the plans for the clone army.

2. We agree somewhat, that Jango was foolish to engage Kenobi in a melee. Ideally, he should have kept Boba firing at him using Slave-1's cannons. (I'm assuming that like most handguns, the pistol Fett uses isn't very accurate at the range we see in the film, and would therefore be inadequate for actually hitting Kenobi.) If such a tactic allows Kenobi a moment to retrieve his lightsabre (through TK), though, the Fett family is screwed. My analysis is that Jango tried to keep Obi-Wan distracted by engaging him up close, not permitting him an opportunity to retrieve his weapon.

Of course, with OBK relatively helpless once his hands were bound, you'd think that another ranged attack would be in order. Or better yet, dunk the Jedi in the ocean ten miles from the cloning facility, get back to the ship, and take off. I guess Jango's not a really clear thinker at times.

3. Yeah, you have to wonder about the decision to get down into the arena to mix it up with Windu. First of all, why bother? The droids had things well in hand, or they would soon enough. Sure, with Windu disarmed and (momentarily) incapacitated, the opportunity to take him out was there. But again, why bother?

The only reason I can think of is this: Jango felt that the lightsabre held to his throat earlier was a personal insult, and he wanted to handle it personally. Furthermore, if things get a little hairy, he can always rely on his jetpack to take him out of a Jedi's range.

In all, points 2 and 3 are suspect, but since these are decisions made in the heat of battle, I guess I can cut him a little slack. Not that it matters, he's still dead.

Howedar wrote:I disagree; a HEAT round like a normal anti-tank rocket (I'm thinking Karl Gustav or RPG here) shouldn't have a great deal of collateral damage when fired into a soft target.

Oh well, I was thinking nuclear.

His Divine Shadow wrote:

neoolong wrote:After all, you could hunt a deer with a rocket launcher, but where's the challenge in that?

I dunno, it's not that easy to wield a rocket launcher in the forrest, quite large and clumsy and if your first shot miss, it takes time to reload.
Secondly you have to be a very good shot to hit the deer in such a way that you don't destroy most of the flesh on it, and/or so that you can take trophies.

Fine, a nuke then.

neoolong wrote:Actually it's a bit different in Predator. It's not war, it's a hunt. So it makes sense to make it a bit easier for your prey. After all, you could hunt a deer with a rocket launcher, but where's the challenge in that?

As for Fett, he probably is pretty confident in his abilities, perhaps overconfident.

Actually "hunting" a deer with a rocket launcher or a rifle would be the same, now when you shoot it to kill it that is the difference. "Hunting" requires skill no matter what you are using to kill the animal. The rocket launcher would just make a big mess and not leave meat or a trophy, hence defeating most hunters purpose.

Death from the Sea wrote:

neoolong wrote:Actually it's a bit different in Predator. It's not war, it's a hunt. So it makes sense to make it a bit easier for your prey. After all, you could hunt a deer with a rocket launcher, but where's the challenge in that?

As for Fett, he probably is pretty confident in his abilities, perhaps overconfident.

Actually "hunting" a deer with a rocket launcher or a rifle would be the same, now when you shoot it to kill it that is the difference. "Hunting" requires skill no matter what you are using to kill the animal. The rocket launcher would just make a big mess and not leave meat or a trophy, hence defeating most hunters purpose.

Only if you're planning on taking a trophy.

And fine substitute rocket launcher with some other weapon that's really really easy to use and leaves a corpse.

Darth Garden Gnome wrote: 1.)Not seeing the long-term outcome of his actions
Fett makes a clone army using his template, knowing that it is for the Republic and would be used against the Seperatists. So what does he do? Becomes a bodyguard for Dooku, leader of the Seperatists? Smart move, buddy. Had he lived to see the Battle of Genosis, chances are he would've been gunned down by the armyhehelped create.

Fett is Count Dooku's personal bodyguard and errand boy, not a soldier. He's obviously aware that Dooku is playing both sides, and I doubt if he would ever have been assigned to combat duty against the clones.

Darth Garden Gnome wrote: 2.)The Rumble in the Rain
So Fett sees the Slave 1 coming about, guns rotating towards Obi-Wan, and he fires his missle? Wouldn't it have been smarter to wait until the lasers fired, and Obi-Wan was down to attack him? This is forgivable, but his next mistake makes zero sense.

Jango wasn't in direct communication with Boba, so they couldn't really coordinate their actions that well.

Darth Garden Gnome wrote: Obi-Wan has just been blasted all to hell by missles and lasers, Fett has an advantage that A.) Kenobi may still be recovering, and B.) He still is out of Obi-Wans range. So, disregarding all common sense, he flysright downto Obi-Wan so he can kick him? Thats right he decided to do this instead of just standing up on the platform shooting at the tusseled up Obi-Wan.

1) Jango's a bounty hunter; he's probably used to being told to take opponents alive.
2) Why piss off the Jedi Order by killing one of their agents when all you really want to do is escape.
3) Force of habit; Jango may have been accustomed to engaging adversaries up close, so he was just following his usual methods.
4) "It seemed like a good idea at the time." I've had that happen to me in numerous SCA duels and battles; you don't really have as much time to consider your actions as you'd like, so you do the first thing you think of. Often enough, it turns out to be a bad idea, but then, of course, it's too late.

Darth Garden Gnome wrote: Obi-Wan reaches for his lightsaber and Fett grapples his arms together with his whip-chord. So instead of actually shooting his carptured prey (his flamethrower wasn't broken of anything), he flys around for a while until Obi-Wan reaches the pole.

Again, Fett's objective is just to get away, not to kill Obi-Wan. I can only guess he was trying to get onto Slave-1 so he could bug out.

Darth Garden Gnome wrote: 3.)Geonosis Arena
Mace Windu has just been knocked down by the Reek. Perfect chance for Fett to shoot him with his missle or blasters from a distance at his defensless enemy. Nope, too easy. He flysright downto Windu (inspiring a bewildered look from Dooku also, he knew it was stupid too )so that hes well within range should Windu attack. Maybe Windu could've dodged his shots from a range? Fine. So he flys right up to him and instead ofshootingthe bastard, he DIVES for Windu's lightsaber? Common sense is still zero. Jango does know Jedi can use TK, so that leaping for the blade could prove fruitless, so instead of killing his enemy he sets himself up for his eventual demise.

I can only guess that Jango Fett didn't habitually fight Jedi. Sure, he knows intellectually that he shouldn't treat them like ordinary "bounties", but habitual fighting patterns are hard to break.

If his rocket pack had not been damaged he would have flown away before being decapitated.

Montcalm wrote:If his rocket pack had not been damaged he would have flown away before being decapitated.

He's supposed to be far more verstile than that. Relying solely on the pack isn't all he's cut out for. He has far more equipment and weapons than just the damn pack. And using the broken pack as an excuse for his shortcommings is a pretty half-assed attempt to try and give him back some credibility.

And what was the point of him going into the melee in the first place? He could have taken pot-shots at people from the balcony. His honor? Apparently, it must not be to great if he threw his lot in with the Seperatists...which seems pretty clear, because he seems to have taken a role as Dooku's personal body guard. Mace baited the hook, and Jango fell for it. His mistakes were his own undoing.

SCRawl wrote: In order, then:

1. Jango probably didn't know that he was part of a larger conspiracy. All he's contracted to do is: provide some DNA, for cloning purposes, for which he's well paid; kick a little ass now and then, for which he's well paid; and hang around as a consultant, for which he's probably well paid. None of this requires any specific knowledge of the plans for the clone army.

He must knew some of the plans, he was sent to organize the assassination of Amidala. He was hired by Tyranus (so he knew Dooku's sith name).

2. We agree somewhat, that Jango was foolish to engage Kenobi in a melee. Ideally, he should have kept Boba firing at him using Slave-1's cannons. (I'm assuming that like most handguns, the pistol Fett uses isn't very accurate at the range we see in the film, and would therefore be inadequate for actually hitting Kenobi.) If such a tactic allows Kenobi a moment to retrieve his lightsabre (through TK), though, the Fett family is screwed. My analysis is that Jango tried to keep Obi-Wan distracted by engaging him up close, not permitting him an opportunity to retrieve his weapon.

Not very accurate at that range?

We're talking about not more than 20 meters...

3. Yeah, you have to wonder about the decision to get down into the arena to mix it up with Windu. First of all, why bother? The droids had things well in hand, or they would soon enough. Sure, with Windu disarmed and (momentarily) incapacitated, the opportunity to take him out was there. But again, why bother?

The only reason I can think of is this: Jango felt that the lightsabre held to his throat earlier was a personal insult, and he wanted to handle it personally. Furthermore, if things get a little hairy, he can always rely on his jetpack to take him out of a Jedi's range.

I second that! Beside that he killed another jedi on the balcony...that gave him some boost!

We're talking about not more than 20 meters...

You ever tried to shoot a moving target at a range of 20 meters with a pistol?

Smiling Bandit wrote:

We're talking about not more than 20 meters...

You ever tried to shoot a moving target at a range of 20 meters with a pistol?

Now, In Jango's defense...he does have all the targeting shit in his helmet. I'm not sure if it's patched into his blasters, but I'm pretty sure it is with some of his other gear. Stuff on his gauntlets and whatnot.