StarDestroyer.Net BBS

Since no-one else posted. This is from Kotaku Aftermath

This seems that it will answer some major questions that our board had in recent weeks. No information on story has been released yet, but apparently a lot of EU ideas will make a comeback. I'm a little optimistic but I am a fan of the Truce at Bakura story

The Truce at Bakura was interesting, at least the parts covering the immediate aftermath of the fall of the Empire's leadership; the brain-sucking lizards (as much as I loved dinosaurs as a child) were pretty stupid. I will be fine with them covering some of the same ground, as long as they have a different take on specific (dumb) details.

I do agree (and now understand) why the post-RotJ EU was wiped. The mid '90s "Looking for (Padmé)" arcs had to go. They didn't fit with what "actually" happened. I'm holding out that the Thrawns, Maras and NJOs will be back, just with some tweaks .

Does anyone know who the author is? That cover art and synopsis does look somewhat interesting and suggests that it takes place immediately after ROTJ. I highly doubt anything of major significance takes place in terms of really leading to the new film given that the overwhelming majority of viewers will not have read it. I feel like I've heard rumors that the new film has major flashbacks(presumably the main elements involving the OT heroes) but I can't remember where that was.

Tychu wrote:I do agree (and now understand) why the post-RotJ EU was wiped. The mid '90s "Looking for (Padmé)" arcs had to go. They didn't fit with what "actually" happened. I'm holding out that the Thrawns, Maras and NJOs will be back, just with some tweaks .

The fundamental issue is that the Empire almost certainly still exists in some point for the new films(given the presence of TIE fighters and stormtroopers). Thus it is impossible for them to fall all the way as happened in the EU. We are thus also not likely to see the New Republic and all of the conflicts relating to their formation. Thrawn might actually fit for this era as an Imperial officer strong enough to keep things together.

I wonder just how much EU ideas will really be used of it that is simply something they are saying to appease fanboys. I seriously doubt that Mara Jade for one will make an appearance at this point in the story considering the direction of the new films. It would be odd for her to appear as a love interest with Luke seeming to take on the hermit role. Thrawn could easily have an appearance and Mara could retain her old role of serving the Empire, just without the redemption involving Luke. The events from the X-wing novels similarly are unlikely to make an appearance given the new movie that was just announced. I hope we don't see much else from the Bantam era and presumably(and hopefully) we won't see anything from the NJO and beyond, as that is the era that the new films presumably take place in.

Why does anyone like the NJO as a premise? The execution might have been somewhat good, but the ideas are terrible for Star Wars. Biotech as a replacement for blasters and lightsabers has no place in the setting. Especially if they are also severed from the Force. I understand why the EU went that way at the time, in their search for something different, but now that the new movies are coming out there is even less of a place for it than the "Luke looking for Padme" arcs. To the average audience, the NJO would sell terribly as it wouldn't feel like real Star Wars.

The Empire still existing does not mean the New Republic can't exist, just that the New Republic can't control the entire galaxy.

Some version of Thrawn would be nice to see. Ditto for Mara Jade.

The Romulan Republic wrote:The Empire still existing does not mean the New Republic can't exist, just that the New Republic can't control the entire galaxy.

The fact that stormtroopers exist on Tatooine of all places seems to indicate that the Empire might still be stronger. Though I agree that the New Republic will probably still exist on some level, but I was simply referring to the idea that they would likely not appear in the same fashion as in the earlier EU.

I had little problem with Truce of Bakura, but the Ssi-ruuk were a really stupid concept. Extragalactic lizard aliens that show up for one book... and then nobody mentions them ever after? (until they show up in the Yuuzhan Vong arc, apparently, according to Wookieepedia)

I mean, it makes sense from a storytelling perspective to have some little adventures here and there after a big climax. You can't have a continuous string of Huge Events (TM). But Truce at Bakura was just really poorly handled, I thought, and kind of just wandered a bit. Brought up some interesting potential in Dev Sibwarra... and then kills him off before he does much of anything other than helping gank the Ssi-ruuk invasion.

Adamskywalker007 wrote:

The Romulan Republic wrote:The Empire still existing does not mean the New Republic can't exist, just that the New Republic can't control the entire galaxy.

The fact that stormtroopers exist on Tatooine of all places seems to indicate that the Empire might still be stronger. Though I agree that the New Republic will probably still exist on some level, but I was simply referring to the idea that they would likely not appear in the same fashion as in the earlier EU.

Tatooine is a shit hole. Even if their are stormtroopers on Tatooine, that just means the Empire has troops on one of the most worthless pieces of territory in the galaxy.

And because its worthless, I doubt that the New Republic would make capturing it a priority. Even Luke probably doesn't have much attachment to it.

Although it occurs to me that it would be interesting if Tatooine wasn't a shit hole any more. I mean, I doubt they'll do that in the film because it looks like they're going for nostalgia and nothing having changed much (which may appease some of the less rabid fans but sucks), but it would be funny if Tatooine experienced a huge economic boom from tourism due to being the home of Luke Skywalker or something and was now a thriving planet.

Elheru Aran wrote:I had little problem with Truce of Bakura, but the Ssi-ruuk were a really stupid concept. Extragalactic lizard aliens that show up for one book... and then nobody mentions them ever after? (until they show up in the Yuuzhan Vong arc, apparently, according to Wookieepedia)

They mention them kind of off-hand in the Corellian Trilogy when the New Republic has to borrow warships from Bakura because they have hyperwave sustainers mounted to defeat the massive interdiction field that was the MacGuffin of choice for those books. Which is stupid in itself, that the navy of the galactic government has to go hat in hand to the militia of an outlying member world.

The Romulan Republic wrote:Tatooine is a shit hole. Even if their are stormtroopers on Tatooine, that just means the Empire has troops on one of the most worthless pieces of territory in the galaxy.

It could also have also been an operation to a planet that no one bothered to control.

And because its worthless, I doubt that the New Republic would make capturing it a priority. Even Luke probably doesn't have much attachment to it.

I almost wonder if it would be called the New Republic now? The various rumors around still refer to them as Rebels.

Although it occurs to me that it would be interesting if Tatooine wasn't a shit hole any more. I mean, I doubt they'll do that in the film because it looks like they're going for nostalgia and nothing having changed much (which may appease some of the less rabid fans but sucks), but it would be funny if Tatooine experienced a huge economic boom from tourism due to being the home of Luke Skywalker or something and was now a thriving planet.

That is certainly an interesting idea, though I seriously doubt that it would be because of tourism. The impression I get is that Luke is an outcast at the time of the new films, toruism to Tatooine is likely. The fact that we see wrecked podracers in the background gives even more of an impression than it is hardly a developed world. Though it is fenced, perhaps it is a tourist attraction.
Spoiler Though that could also be a tourist attraction.

Rogue 9 wrote:They mention them kind of off-hand in the Corellian Trilogy when the New Republic has to borrow warships from Bakura because they have hyperwave sustainers mounted to defeat the massive interdiction field that was the MacGuffin of choice for those books. Which is stupid in itself, that the navy of the galactic government has to go hat in hand to the militia of an outlying member world.

I had completely forgotten about how awful those books were. That would be the equivalent to the US needing to draw from the Rhode Island militia to defend New York.

Still, I'd like to see Tatooine become something less worthless. Clearing Jabba out might help, provided whoever runs Tatooine keeps another horrible criminal from taking his place. Unfortunately, I doubt any galactic government gives a shit about Tatooine. Its an impoverished backwater planet. And both the Rebels and the Empire will have bigger fish to fry right after Return of the Jedi.

The Romulan Republic wrote:Still, I'd like to see Tatooine become something less worthless. Clearing Jabba out might help, provided whoever runs Tatooine keeps another horrible criminal from taking his place. Unfortunately, I doubt any galactic government gives a shit about Tatooine. Its an impoverished backwater planet. And both the Rebels and the Empire will have bigger fish to fry right after Return of the Jedi.

I hadn't thought about the impact of Jabba's death. That likely would have some positive impact. It would be especially nice to see as it was Luke's first major act as a true Jedi.

Adamskywalker007 wrote:I had completely forgotten about how awful those books were. That would be the equivalent to the US needing to draw from the Rhode Island militia to defend New York.

The Republic seems to be far less centralized than america though. They seem to be no more centrally controlled than the EU.

Adamskywalker007 wrote:I hadn't thought about the impact of Jabba's death. That likely would have some positive impact. It would be especially nice to see as it was Luke's first major act as a true Jedi.

Or worse. A decently plausible alternative is that without Jabba on hand to control them local crime lords start a gang war to see who gets to replace him.

Rogue 9 wrote: They mention them kind of off-hand in the Corellian Trilogy when the New Republic has to borrow warships from Bakura because they have hyperwave sustainers mounted to defeat the massive interdiction field that was the MacGuffin of choice for those books. Which is stupid in itself, that the navy of the galactic government has to go hat in hand to the militia of an outlying member world.

Wasn't that a technology thing though as opposed to their usual sheer firepower thing in all the other books?

Purple wrote:Or worse. A decently plausible alternative is that without Jabba on hand to control them local crime lords start a gang war to see who gets to replace him.

I was thinking more thematically and less realistically. It would be better thematically if we saw a better Tatooine, especially if much of the rest of the galaxy is in less than ideal shape. It would be a good way to showcase the good that the Jedi can do.

In terms of the idea of bringing back Mara Jade, this left me with a thought based on a random character comparison. In the CBS TV series Person of Interest, which is an almost cyberpunk series involving a computer system(The Machine) that spits out the social security number of someone who will be involved in a violent crime, one of the more interesting antagonists of the first two seasons is Root a villainous computer hacker played by Amy Acker. For the first two seasons she was an excellent antagonist, at one point tricking The Machine by ordering a hit on one of her fake identities. However in the third season she switches sides and begins working with the heroes against a common enemy. I always felt that she was far more interesting in the first two seasons as an antagonist.

I wonder if the EU should do the same thing with Mara this time around, keep her a loyal follower of Palpatine who is never redeemed through Luke. While she eventually leaves the Empire after his death, she never works with Luke or loses her streak of darkness and possibly works with the new Sith.

Purple wrote:

Adamskywalker007 wrote:

Rogue 9 wrote:They mention them kind of off-hand in the Corellian Trilogy when the New Republic has to borrow warships from Bakura because they have hyperwave sustainers mounted to defeat the massive interdiction field that was the MacGuffin of choice for those books. Which is stupid in itself, that the navy of the galactic government has to go hat in hand to the militia of an outlying member world.

I had completely forgotten about how awful those books were. That would be the equivalent to the US needing to draw from the Rhode Island militia to defend New York.

The Republic seems to be far less centralized than america though. They seem to be no more centrally controlled than the EU.

It was pretty dumb though, because the reason was that most of the Republic Navy was in dry-dock. At the same time.

Because it's not like they have ever had an unexpected crisis happen, so let's shelve most of the military at once!

RogueIce wrote: It was pretty dumb though, because the reason was that most of the Republic Navy was in dry-dock. At the same time.

Because it's not like they have ever had an unexpected crisis happen, so let's shelve most of the military at once!

They had to shelve, because most of their military (which wasn't tied down elsewhere) was exhausted from responding to the previous crisises. And towards the end the NRDF did appear with a vast fleet to kick butt.

None of the blurb fills me with confidence, this screams "quick cash grab" to me.

I'm not really seeing what's wrong with the blurb. It actually fits what happens. And it fits the scale of the event, the government, and, well, the number of worlds. You really don't just conveniently get rid of the Empire(granted, nor did it in the previous EU), nor do many worlds just stay with the Empire(or just switch to the Rebels), AND some worlds now might openly join the rebels. It should basically make things a political mess.

Thanas wrote:None of the blurb fills me with confidence, this screams "quick cash grab" to me.

How is this any different than the old EU?

Though looking at Balrog's review for Heir to the Jedi doesn't make me very hopeful that the new EU will be any better than the old(some acceptable to good, some completely worthless).

Adamskywalker007 wrote:

Thanas wrote:None of the blurb fills me with confidence, this screams "quick cash grab" to me.

How is this any different than the old EU?

It really is not, but then again I never claimed that the old EU was better. IMO there are just about 14 books worth saving from the old EU.

Thanas wrote:It really is not, but then again I never claimed that the old EU was better. IMO there are just about 14 books worth saving from the old EU.

Which 14? I would probably have about the same number. In a way it would be nice if the original authors of some of the better ones could release updated versions of their books to fit the new continuity. Wraith Squadron could easily fit as the main characters were secondary and some of Zahn's ideas could fit, though his would have to be majorly tweaked to fit whatever the new films come up with given what we see. The strength of Zahn as a writer was his style more than his ideas, he has a way of writing action sequences that make it feel like a game of speed chess that is always enjoyable. That is what made Thrawn effective.

It would also be nice to see elements of Labyrinth of Evil retained, though it would have to be seriously rewritten to account for the Clone Wars series rather than the original mixed Clone Wars continuity. Cloak of Deception and Darth Plaigus might still be canon given the references from the new novel Tarkin.

Adamskywalker007 wrote:Which 14?

In chronological order from 0ABY:


Keep no matter what:

Books: (14)
- Labyrinth of Evil (Luceno)
- Outbound Flight (Zahn)
- Scoundrels (Zahn)
- Allegiance (Zahn)
- Choices of One (Zahn)
- Shadows of the Empire (Perry)
- Truce at Bakura (Tyers)
- Tatooine Ghost (Denning)
- Heir to the Empire (Zahn)
- Dark Force Rising (Zahn)
- The Last Command (Zahn)
- Specter of the Past (Zahn)
- Vision of the Future (Zahn)
- Survivor's Quest (Zahn)


Comics: (5)
Vos & Secura standalone series
Republic comic series
Shadows of the Empire: Evolution
By the Emperor's Hand
Union


These are the essential ones I would keep no matter what. I could give reasons for every one but I think one can see the main logic here - the Rise and Fall of Thrawn, Mara Jade and the Skywalker and Organa families. What's more, these are books that are fun and which I can reread without groaning.

If possible, I would order one final Zahn trilogy to wrap up the Survivior's Quest storylines and deal with the great evil Thrawn had prophesized without it turning into the sucky Vong. And then that would be all.


The second tier are ones I might keep (and leaning towards keeping):

Novels:
X-wing, Rogue Squadron&Wraith Squadron etc. (Stackpole, Allston etc.) (Problems: Minimalism, sometimes boring and illogical, but some are pretty good. The character work in general is quite okay).

Comics:
Crimson Empire I-III (great description of the falling empire and the chaos within the Imperial circle in II, III is rather questionable)
X-wing Rogue Squadron comics



Very questionable but might have a chance:
The works by KJA (generally bad logic and bad plot, only redeeming feature is how some of his works build into later Zahn works, like having Pellaeon take over in Darksaber etc.)
Dark Empire I&II (I don't like it, I think the art is lazy the plot is one-upmanship of one side pulling out one crazy hat followed by the other one etc. Only reason I would keep it is because of it leading into Crimson Empire.)
NJO (some books are decent. But overall trash)
Legacy comic series (the one 125 ABY or so - started great, ended up sucking.)

I would chuck them save for having a few of the story elements present. Like, Daala doesn't have to be a researcher somewhere, just scrub the KJA trilogy and have her appear as a frustrated career admiral in Darksaber. Special treatment to Legacy, which worked really great in the beginning and had a horrible ending. Order someone to rewrite the last parts to make sense.

Everything else: chuck it completely. From horrible (Dark Swarm/Nest/whatever by Denning) to more boring or horrible (Traviss) etc. Not worth it. Short stories to be handled according to who wrote them and how they fit.

Looks like Alfred owes me 5 bucks
My 14 would have been the Thrawn Trilogy, the Hand of Thrawn duology, the Wraith Squadron books, and the original Han Solo/Lando Calrissian trilogies.

Thanas wrote:- Outbound Flight (Zahn)
- Scoundrels (Zahn)
- Allegiance (Zahn)
- Choices of One (Zahn)
- Shadows of the Empire (Perry)

Fun part is that, these books at least, could pretty easily be kept without any real major changes being necessary - well, that we know of, anyway. Even Mara's not quite meeting Luke in CoO wouldn't be an issue anymore since their whole relationship is allegedly gone. And I can't remember any overt post-RotJ EU that any of those books really relied on or even referenced.

Of course I'm sure they'll do stuff in the OT timeframe at some point so that will probably alter things, but for now these are still pretty solid.