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The Hutts seem to be a rather large force in the Star Wars galaxy, with a full on empire called the Hutt Cartel, with Hutt Space marking the realm of their domain. Considering that this is an empire based on the backs of slavery, drugs, smuggling, and organized crime, it seems almost farcical that the Republic, and especially the Empire, never decided to deal with the space mafia, once and for all. So, just how much of a force are the Hutts, in that the Empire, huge war machine that it is, never put an end to the Hutts, once and for all?

Well the republic failed to deal with a flat out military invasion of one of its members. Thus I doubt it could deal its way out of a paper bag. And the empire probably did not care. Palpatine is an evil wizard. And in the old EU we see him practicing slavery and all the other things the Huts do. So why should he act against them?

Because the Hutts could/did corrupt his military, bribe his officials, extort money from his populace that they would give to him instead? If you're a fascist dictator, the last thing you want is for your own military to be incompetent because they're smuggling spice or on spice themselves instead of doing their jobs.

Purple wrote:Well the republic failed to deal with a flat out military invasion of one of its members. Thus I doubt it could deal its way out of a paper bag. And the empire probably did not care. Palpatine is an evil wizard. And in the old EU we see him practicing slavery and all the other things the Huts do. So why should he act against them?

I have little doubt the Republic could have bested the Hutts, had the authorities cared to do so. After all, they did resolve the Naboo invasion in the end (or rather, the Jedi assisted local partisans in doing so). Plus the Republica was a galactic government. However, the Republic was corrupt. I imagine the Hutts had the right people bribed and/or blackmailed.

From current canon:

Not much that I can tell (mind you, haven't watched Clone Wars, so can't comment on anything from that). All we can tell is they control Tattooine, Jabba is a powerful crime-lord with enough money to put an apparently sizeable bounty on Han Solo's head and be the guest of honour at the Pod Race... and that's about it.

From Legendaries canon: They obviously have some decent power, mainly in Hutt space but some apparently expanded outside of that area like Jabba. The majority stay in Hutt space (Nar Hutta, Nar Shaada, and so forth) and probably make their money from the Star Wars equivalent of cheap manufacturing, drug running and insider trading; one wonders what the general population of the Hutt species actually did, unless it's some freakish situation where there are only a few hundred actual Hutts living or something.

Think of American organized crime in the mid-20th century. Gangsters running little schemes here and there, a decent drug operation, police being either paid off or brutally killed if they try to interfere, courts being bought off, almost untouchable leaders and a host of cheap operatives connected by pure loyalty and blackmail. FBI mainly busted them in the late 70s through early 90s thanks to informants and other insiders, tax evasion, and careful investigations conducted over a long period.

The Romulan Republic wrote:

Purple wrote:Well the republic failed to deal with a flat out military invasion of one of its members. Thus I doubt it could deal its way out of a paper bag. And the empire probably did not care. Palpatine is an evil wizard. And in the old EU we see him practicing slavery and all the other things the Huts do. So why should he act against them?

I have little doubt the Republic could have bested the Hutts, had the authorities cared to do so. After all, they did resolve the Naboo invasion in the end (or rather, the Jedi assisted local partisans in doing so). Plus the Republica was a galactic government. However, the Republic was corrupt. I imagine the Hutts had the right people bribed and/or blackmailed.

Not to mention that it probably wasn't seen as worth the trouble. Look at the way that the third world is treated by Western powers. The reality is that the entire world or galaxy can't be prosperous. The Galactic Senate, for all their rhetoric about anti-slavery laws, as mentioned by Padme, probably saw the value in keeping worlds outside the Republic. It's the same way that in Mass Effect, all of the council races had a presence in the Terminus systems outside Council rule. Even the most apparently civilized of the council, the asari, have an entire world(Illium) devoted to milking the fruits of the Terminus systems.

Once the Clone Wars start it is even worse, going after the Hutts during a full scale war would be expensive when it is already difficult to hold the line against the CIS. The CIS likewise would benefit from worlds staying neutral as it would allow them additional trading partners, especially considering that the CIS was run by merchants.

As for the Empire they presumably saw even more mutual benefit from the survival of the Hutts. Official state bounty hunters(Boba Fett) were allowed to openly serve both the Hutts and the Empire at the same time, even as part of the same contract. Darth Vader even stated that the Empire would compensate Boba for the loss of Han's bounty if he died. A Hutt leader could thus post an open bounty legally.

It wasn't until Jedi returned without the shackles of the Old Republic that anyone did something about the Hutt clans.

Yeah, another good RW parallel for the Hutts would be a place like Sudan or Somalia or early 1900's China. Neo-feudal rulers controlling a brutalized population, with a certain degree of competition against each other, and the rest of the world doesn't much care as long as they don't spill over into the more powerful nations' business.

A note about the slaves in Hutt space: they were a luxury, not what the economy was based on. Kind of like modern slaves in first world countries.

Zixinus wrote:A note about the slaves in Hutt space: they were a luxury, not what the economy was based on. Kind of like modern slaves in first world countries.

True. It is clearly a status rather than a practical issue. Droids are obviously cheaper and more effective at providing similar services. As is poorly paid labor.

My point is that there must be an economic benefit to the core worlds from keeping the Outer Rim in poverty. Direct slavery is only part of that.

It might not be that the Core is deliberately keeping the Outer Rim poor. The government might simply not feel its worth it to upgrade the infrastructure of the Outer Rim, employ everyone their, crack down on the crime lords, etc.

So, did the Empire have Hutt infiltration into their borders? Did the Hutts corrupt local governors, workers, captains, admirals, etc? Or was it not a problem for the Empire? Did the Hutts have a fleet ready to fight the Empire if the Empire ever desired giving them a bloody nose? How close were ties, if at all, between the Hutts and say, the Rebellion?

During World War II, the Mafia stopped Nazi operations in the US, because of the Jewish ties in the mafia. Were there similar ties with the Hutts, who deemed the Empire's (now non-canon) xenophobic attitude towards aliens dangerous?

Is Hutt space part of the Republic in the new cannon? We know Tattoine wasn't.

Knife wrote:Is Hutt space part of the Republic in the new cannon? We know Tattoine wasn't.

I don't think so. The whole point of the Clone Wars movie was that the Hutts controlled some hyperlanes or whatever that the Republic needed, so that's why Jabba's kid was such a big deal. Had they not rescued him, the CIS would (presumably) have ransomed exclusive use of those hyperlanes. With the kid back safely, the Hutts would let the Republic use them.

I don't know how powerful the Cartels are, but I'm guessing at least powerful enough that simply forcing the issue through military action would have been an unnecessary drain for either side, which is why they resorted to the tactics that they did, at least for the CIS; the Republic may have not wished to force the issue out of morals/ideals or whatever, even if they technically had the ability to.

As to prior to the War, presumably it was just apathy, indifference, willful ignorance, etc. Padme was certainly shocked to learn about the slavery on Tatooine. Most likely, those who did know didn't care, and those who would care never really looked into it because of other, "more important" issues or just general 'ignorance' of galactic societies at large - something we see a lot of here with just one planet, never mind a whole galaxy of them.

As for the Empire, I'm not sure anything has been said in New Canon? Jabba is certainly still around but again, maybe the Empire just doesn't care, or decides they have their uses and put up with the occasional bribery (assuming the Hutts still meddle like that) as something they can live with, so long as it never gets out of hand. Again, plenty of real world parallels could be drawn to such indifference being in play when it comes to organized crime and the like.

If we gather up the scattered Legends information, the Hutts were a huge problem... twenty millenia before the events of the movies. There was a major ongoing conflict for control of the spacelanes and economy of colonized space, between the Hutt species and various human powers such as the early proto-Republic and random people like Xim the Despot. The net effect of these conflicts was to determine if humans or Hutts would become the dominant species of the galaxy- and humans won, in part due to Hutts fighting among themselves. The Hutts retained enough power that they couldn't have been exterminated even if the then proto-Republic had been inclined to try, but were effectively blocked from becoming a galaxy-dominating force as might otherwards have occurred.

Purple wrote:Well the republic failed to deal with a flat out military invasion of one of its members. Thus I doubt it could deal its way out of a paper bag.

But if the Republic had always been that unwilling to deal with outside aggressors attacking its members, how did it ever exist for thousands of years in the first place? I can believe a Republic that is corrupt and gridlocked, but I cannot believe a Republic that is that corrupt and gridlocked for millenia without being chewed up by outsiders.

And the empire probably did not care. Palpatine is an evil wizard. And in the old EU we see him practicing slavery and all the other things the Huts do. So why should he act against them?

If the Hutts were an organized force with great resources at their command they would represent power not under Palpatine's control. Lots of it. This alone would motivate him to invade.

Plus, think of the propaganda value - an external war against slave-trading gangster slugs? Point all the potential Rebel recruits at them, expand Imperial power at the expense of its most likely internal enemies, retire to throne room for a well-deserved celebratory cackle.

Zixinus wrote:A note about the slaves in Hutt space: they were a luxury, not what the economy was based on. Kind of like modern slaves in first world countries.

Would that make Watto the exception to the rule? While he did have droids doing work, he seemed to lean on Anakin and Shmi a lot to get things done at his shop, with his business seemed to have gone to pot a decade later after Anakin had joined the Jedi and Shmi had been bought and freed by the Lars family.

FaxModem1 wrote:Because the Hutts could/did corrupt his military, bribe his officials, extort money from his populace that they would give to him instead? If you're a fascist dictator, the last thing you want is for your own military to be incompetent because they're smuggling spice or on spice themselves instead of doing their jobs.

But he isn't a fascist dictator. He is an evil wizard that thrives on being evil. I would not at all be surprised if he kept the Hutts around for the sake of amusement. Of knowing that someone, somewhere is oppressing people.

Elheru Aran wrote:From Legendaries canon: They obviously have some decent power, mainly in Hutt space but some apparently expanded outside of that area like Jabba. The majority stay in Hutt space (Nar Hutta, Nar Shaada, and so forth) and probably make their money from the Star Wars equivalent of cheap manufacturing, drug running and insider trading; one wonders what the general population of the Hutt species actually did, unless it's some freakish situation where there are only a few hundred actual Hutts living or something.

That would not really surprise me actually. I imagine that the Hutts are sort of like the wealthy leaders of the UAE or Catar. Most of them are either wealthy criminals or related to ones. And the regular population is mostly non hutt in nature.

While he did have droids doing work, he seemed to lean on Anakin and Shmi a lot to get things done at his shop, with his business seemed to have gone to pot a decade later after Anakin had joined the Jedi and Shmi had been bought and freed by the Lars family.

Anakin was probably the real breadwinner there. He was the one fixing all the droids. Without him, they broke down and Watto was unable to recover his gambling losses. I always figured he sold Shmi out of desperation, but it was really Anakin that was keeping things afloat.

FaxModem1 wrote:Would that make Watto the exception to the rule? While he did have droids doing work, he seemed to lean on Anakin and Shmi a lot to get things done at his shop, with his business seemed to have gone to pot a decade later after Anakin had joined the Jedi and Shmi had been bought and freed by the Lars family.

Slavery on Tatooine may well have been a very different thing from slavery 'on average' in the rest of the galaxy.

Among other things, very few people would willingly live on Tatooine. So it might well be hard to find technically adept employees on such a planet. Since Watto needs skilled repair and maintenance personnel to run his business, and can't afford to have them running off constantly, he might have more incentive than most to purchase a slave he can force to remain on a planet at the ass end of the universe.

Borgholio wrote:

While he did have droids doing work, he seemed to lean on Anakin and Shmi a lot to get things done at his shop, with his business seemed to have gone to pot a decade later after Anakin had joined the Jedi and Shmi had been bought and freed by the Lars family.

Anakin was probably the real breadwinner there. He was the one fixing all the droids. Without him, they broke down and Watto was unable to recover his gambling losses. I always figured he sold Shmi out of desperation, but it was really Anakin that was keeping things afloat.

On the other hand, what did Shmi really do for Watto? I don't recall her ever being shown doing anything for him. The most I recall may be a vague reference somewhere to her running the shop or something like that.

Anakin is young enough-- 9 IIRC-- that it's unlikely that Watto bought him for his technological skills unless he was some sort of extraordinarily young prodigy. More likely, Watto bought Shmi either before she had her child or some time after, and Anakin only showed his aptitude once he started messing around in Watto's shop, which Watto then took advantage of.

On the other hand, what did Shmi really do for Watto?

I seem to remember her messing with some electronics on the desk when Anakin informs her they sold his pod. So she was probably general purpose hired enslaved help to run the shop, clean, fix various things, etc...

Simon_Jester wrote:If the Hutts were an organized force with great resources at their command they would represent power not under Palpatine's control. Lots of it. This alone would motivate him to invade.

That depends on just how powerful the Empire actually was in direct terms. If the Empire lacked the power to truly enforce the Emperor's will in every corner of the galaxy, then they could not just up and conquer groups like the Hutts without giving up things in other areas. Given how much they threw into their two Death Stars, perhaps the Empire never really had the manpower to control their populace. This also fit the sense of desperation of the Imperial fleet in hunting down the Rebels. They had to make an example of them after the loss of the first Death Star to stall until the second was created.

Given the relatively small numbers shown throughout essentially all of Clone Wars I would argue that most of the galaxy is extremely sparsely populated and that the Repulbic and Imperial forces were never really large enough to police the galaxy. Local forces had too much influence.

Elheru Aran wrote: On the other hand, what did Shmi really do for Watto? I don't recall her ever being shown doing anything for him. The most I recall may be a vague reference somewhere to her running the shop or something like that.

Anakin is young enough-- 9 IIRC-- that it's unlikely that Watto bought him for his technological skills unless he was some sort of extraordinarily young prodigy. More likely, Watto bought Shmi either before she had her child or some time after, and Anakin only showed his aptitude once he started messing around in Watto's shop, which Watto then took advantage of.

I think Watto hit the jackpot with Anakin. Before he came along, Watto was a relatively low level junk dealer who seemed to be doing much better for himself after winning Anakin in a bet.

And as for the chronology, Watto won Anakin from Gardulla the Hutt by gambling when he was young, three I think. Anakin mentioned this when he first meets Padme. I could be wrong in the details, it has been ages since I watched TPM.

Sparsely populated worlds do make a certain amount of... curiously minimalist... sense. It depends on what you would define as 'sparsely populated' though. With the technology level they have in the SW galaxy, they don't necessarily need a large population per planet to maintain a reasonably sized industrial base.

Elheru Aran wrote:On the other hand, what did Shmi really do for Watto? I don't recall her ever being shown doing anything for him. The most I recall may be a vague reference somewhere to her running the shop or something like that.

Anakin is young enough-- 9 IIRC-- that it's unlikely that Watto bought him for his technological skills unless he was some sort of extraordinarily young prodigy. More likely, Watto bought Shmi either before she had her child or some time after, and Anakin only showed his aptitude once he started messing around in Watto's shop, which Watto then took advantage of.

Maybe Shmi was herself a competent mechanic?

I mean, sure Anakin's some kind of legendary genius when it comes to tinkering, but he has to have gotten his first lessons from someone, if only because otherwise his three-year-old self would probably have gotten electrocuted playing with high voltage. And there's not a lot of evidence for Anakin having anyone else likely to teach him.

And correct me if I'm wrong, but my impression is that Anakin and Shmi were owned by Watto for a long time prior to the events of the movies. So much so that Watto wouldn't have known about Anakin's mechanical ability at the time he purchased the boy- for that matter, Anakin may not even have been born yet when Watto bought Shmi.

It seems much more likely that Watto deliberately bought an adequate mechanic and then her son turned out to be a freakishly good mechanic, than that Watto knowingly held onto a slave for several years who had no particularly useful skills applicable to his business. If that were the case he'd presumably have sold Shmi off years ago, before Anakin's talents revealed themselves, and used the proceeds to buy something (or someone) that would be useful to him.

Shmi being useful doesn't necessarily require her being a good 'mechanic'. She might have been really shrewd at creative bookkeeping while Ani actually learned the basics (like 'don't put your tongue in the power outlet') from Watto. Or maybe she made him some money by being really good at Calvinball.
Gourmet cook. Expert pickpocket. We simply know too little about her.