Can someone tell me the mass of the Executor?
Moderator: Vympel
-
- Padawan Learner
- Posts: 221
- Joined: 2007-11-18 08:54am
Can someone tell me the mass of the Executor?
I know it's 19 kilometers in length, but what is its mass? Is there a definitive answer? Just curious.
- Lord Revan
- Emperor's Hand
- Posts: 12235
- Joined: 2004-05-20 02:23pm
- Location: Zone:classified
Re: Can someone tell me the mass of the Executor?
no exact number is ever given as far as I can remember. We can speculate but that's about it.
I may be an idiot, but I'm a tolerated idiot
"I think you completely missed the point of sigs. They're supposed to be completely homegrown in the fertile hydroponics lab of your mind, dried in your closet, rolled, and smoked...
Oh wait, that's marijuana..."Einhander Sn0m4n
"I think you completely missed the point of sigs. They're supposed to be completely homegrown in the fertile hydroponics lab of your mind, dried in your closet, rolled, and smoked...
Oh wait, that's marijuana..."Einhander Sn0m4n
-
- Jedi Council Member
- Posts: 2354
- Joined: 2004-03-27 04:51am
Re: Can someone tell me the mass of the Executor?
Has anyone ever calculated the volume? I suppose one could approximate from that. Looking at Saxton's old pages, even he has never bothered. So I would assume the answer would be no.
Another problem is that the density of SW fuel sources is probably high enough that it would exceed the dry weight of the ship. Unless it is stored as complex mass(as in the mass of the fuel is a complex number). This would presumably mean that the mass is contained in hyperspace. It would explain why SW vessels don't explode catastrophically in many notable cases.
Another problem is that the density of SW fuel sources is probably high enough that it would exceed the dry weight of the ship. Unless it is stored as complex mass(as in the mass of the fuel is a complex number). This would presumably mean that the mass is contained in hyperspace. It would explain why SW vessels don't explode catastrophically in many notable cases.
- Batman
- Emperor's Hand
- Posts: 16423
- Joined: 2002-07-09 04:51am
- Location: Seriously thinking about moving to Marvel because so much of the DCEU stinks
Re: Can someone tell me the mass of the Executor?
The 'volume' should be doable enough, given one is willing to waste enough time and effort on it-there's plenty of pictures of the Executor to work with-but without knowing the average density of the ship (which we didn't even when the old EU was in far as I can recall) that gains you nothing except the volume of the ship. You'd essentially have to assume density to get a mass figure.
'Next time I let Superman take charge, just hit me. Real hard.'
'You're a princess from a society of immortal warriors. I'm a rich kid with issues. Lots of issues.'
'No. No dating for the Batman. It might cut into your brooding time.'
'Tactically we have multiple objectives. So we need to split into teams.'-'Dibs on the Amazon!'
'Hey, we both have a Martian's phone number on our speed dial. I think I deserve the benefit of the doubt.'
'You know, for a guy with like 50 different kinds of vision, you sure are blind.'
'You're a princess from a society of immortal warriors. I'm a rich kid with issues. Lots of issues.'
'No. No dating for the Batman. It might cut into your brooding time.'
'Tactically we have multiple objectives. So we need to split into teams.'-'Dibs on the Amazon!'
'Hey, we both have a Martian's phone number on our speed dial. I think I deserve the benefit of the doubt.'
'You know, for a guy with like 50 different kinds of vision, you sure are blind.'
- Lord Revan
- Emperor's Hand
- Posts: 12235
- Joined: 2004-05-20 02:23pm
- Location: Zone:classified
Re: Can someone tell me the mass of the Executor?
exactly the volume is "simple" enough you just have to use the correct integrals for the formula, however without the average density all this gives as is the volume, while using things like car or real life ship densities can give us an estimate we have no way of knowing how accurate that estimate is.
I may be an idiot, but I'm a tolerated idiot
"I think you completely missed the point of sigs. They're supposed to be completely homegrown in the fertile hydroponics lab of your mind, dried in your closet, rolled, and smoked...
Oh wait, that's marijuana..."Einhander Sn0m4n
"I think you completely missed the point of sigs. They're supposed to be completely homegrown in the fertile hydroponics lab of your mind, dried in your closet, rolled, and smoked...
Oh wait, that's marijuana..."Einhander Sn0m4n
- Purple
- Sith Acolyte
- Posts: 5233
- Joined: 2010-04-20 08:31am
- Location: In a purple cube orbiting this planet. Hijacking satellites for an internet connection.
Re: Can someone tell me the mass of the Executor?
Aren't there cross section images out there? I know there are ones of the ISD. So you could presumably scale up. In fact I imagine that the most practical way to figure out a number would just be to scale up from an ISD (I am assuming we have a mass for those). Sure it won't be too accurate but it should suit his needs.
It has become clear to me in the previous days that any attempts at reconciliation and explanation with the community here has failed. I have tried my best. I really have. I pored my heart out trying. But it was all for nothing.
You win. There, I have said it.
Now there is only one thing left to do. Let us see if I can sum up the strength needed to end things once and for all.
You win. There, I have said it.
Now there is only one thing left to do. Let us see if I can sum up the strength needed to end things once and for all.
- Lord Revan
- Emperor's Hand
- Posts: 12235
- Joined: 2004-05-20 02:23pm
- Location: Zone:classified
Re: Can someone tell me the mass of the Executor?
the problem with that method is that density isn't just what's used and not used, mass on the materials the object in question matters as well, as long we don't exact mass or density numbers, a cross section would really give a a slightly more accurate guess as to the realm mass, however it doesn't mean that guess is anywhere close to being accurate.
I may be an idiot, but I'm a tolerated idiot
"I think you completely missed the point of sigs. They're supposed to be completely homegrown in the fertile hydroponics lab of your mind, dried in your closet, rolled, and smoked...
Oh wait, that's marijuana..."Einhander Sn0m4n
"I think you completely missed the point of sigs. They're supposed to be completely homegrown in the fertile hydroponics lab of your mind, dried in your closet, rolled, and smoked...
Oh wait, that's marijuana..."Einhander Sn0m4n
- Eternal_Freedom
- Castellan
- Posts: 10413
- Joined: 2010-03-09 02:16pm
- Location: CIC, Battlestar Temeraire
Re: Can someone tell me the mass of the Executor?
AFAIK there aren't any cross-section images of the Executor the way there are of ISDs or Venators. Add to that the fact that also AFAIK we do't have a mass for ISD's either.
Baltar: "I don't want to miss a moment of the last Battlestar's destruction!"
Centurion: "Sir, I really think you should look at the other Battlestar."
Baltar: "What are you babbling about other...it's impossible!"
Centurion: "No. It is a Battlestar."
Corrax Entry 7:17: So you walk eternally through the shadow realms, standing against evil where all others falter. May your thirst for retribution never quench, may the blood on your sword never dry, and may we never need you again.
Centurion: "Sir, I really think you should look at the other Battlestar."
Baltar: "What are you babbling about other...it's impossible!"
Centurion: "No. It is a Battlestar."
Corrax Entry 7:17: So you walk eternally through the shadow realms, standing against evil where all others falter. May your thirst for retribution never quench, may the blood on your sword never dry, and may we never need you again.
- Typhonis 1
- Rabid Monkey Scientist
- Posts: 5791
- Joined: 2002-07-06 12:07am
- Location: deep within a secret cloning lab hidden in the brotherhood of the monkey thread
Re: Can someone tell me the mass of the Executor?
Couldn't we use the rough density of a modern or WW2 Warship then multiply that number into the Volume of a pyramid roughly the size of the Executor and get a good ballpark eastimate?
The lady Ex is a pyramid of sorts,but her width is greater than height.
The lady Ex is a pyramid of sorts,but her width is greater than height.
Brotherhood of the Bear Monkey Clonemaster , Anti Care Bears League,
Bureaucrat and BOFH of the HAB,
Skunk Works director of the Mecha Maniacs,
Black Mage,
I AM BACK! let the SCIENCE commence!
Bureaucrat and BOFH of the HAB,
Skunk Works director of the Mecha Maniacs,
Black Mage,
I AM BACK! let the SCIENCE commence!
-
- Jedi Council Member
- Posts: 2354
- Joined: 2004-03-27 04:51am
Re: Can someone tell me the mass of the Executor?
The Executor can pull an acceleration of 30 km/s². And has shielding that are around 10^24 watts with a total reactor output of 10^26 watts. Given those levels, it would require a fuel source far more dense than what is currently used. With such a fuel source, we would have no real way of knowing exactly how much mass it requires. Regardless of what sort of exotic tricks are used.Typhonis 1 wrote:Couldn't we use the rough density of a modern or WW2 Warship then multiply that number into the Volume of a pyramid roughly the size of the Executor and get a good ballpark eastimate?
-
- Padawan Learner
- Posts: 221
- Joined: 2007-11-18 08:54am
Re: Can someone tell me the mass of the Executor?
Well, we know from ROTS deleted scenes that some ships do store fuel in liquid form. Perhaps they use a hypermatter reactor to convert the liquid fuel into vast amounts of energy that is then used by the ship? Just a thought.
- Lord Revan
- Emperor's Hand
- Posts: 12235
- Joined: 2004-05-20 02:23pm
- Location: Zone:classified
Re: Can someone tell me the mass of the Executor?
well a) we don't know what that fuel is used for b)what's the canon status of deleted scenes anyway?Chris Parr wrote:Well, we know from ROTS deleted scenes that some ships do store fuel in liquid form. Perhaps they use a hypermatter reactor to convert the liquid fuel into vast amounts of energy that is then used by the ship? Just a thought.
I may be an idiot, but I'm a tolerated idiot
"I think you completely missed the point of sigs. They're supposed to be completely homegrown in the fertile hydroponics lab of your mind, dried in your closet, rolled, and smoked...
Oh wait, that's marijuana..."Einhander Sn0m4n
"I think you completely missed the point of sigs. They're supposed to be completely homegrown in the fertile hydroponics lab of your mind, dried in your closet, rolled, and smoked...
Oh wait, that's marijuana..."Einhander Sn0m4n
-
- Jedi Council Member
- Posts: 1650
- Joined: 2006-04-30 08:04pm
- Contact:
Re: Can someone tell me the mass of the Executor?
I might be totally off base about this, but can't you can sort of estimate an upper bound for ISD mass through its estimated power and acceleration, which would not require an estimate for material density?
Upper bound defined by 100% reactor power for maximum acceleration (seems a bit bogus to me, given the need to also power shields and weapons). P=a*mv, so after 1s of burn m = P/av or 1e25W/[3000(m/s^2)*3000(m/s)], or ~1.1e18 kg, so 1.1e15 metric tons for the ISD. Power scales the number linearly, so if it takes 10% max reactor power for maximum acceleration, then it's 1.1e14 metric tons.
I'm sure there must be a math mistake somewhere.
Upper bound defined by 100% reactor power for maximum acceleration (seems a bit bogus to me, given the need to also power shields and weapons). P=a*mv, so after 1s of burn m = P/av or 1e25W/[3000(m/s^2)*3000(m/s)], or ~1.1e18 kg, so 1.1e15 metric tons for the ISD. Power scales the number linearly, so if it takes 10% max reactor power for maximum acceleration, then it's 1.1e14 metric tons.
I'm sure there must be a math mistake somewhere.
-
- Padawan Learner
- Posts: 221
- Joined: 2007-11-18 08:54am
Re: Can someone tell me the mass of the Executor?
Okay, thanks a lot.
-
- Emperor's Hand
- Posts: 30165
- Joined: 2009-05-23 07:29pm
Re: Can someone tell me the mass of the Executor?
Note that if the ship is modeled as, oh, a triangular slab eighteen or so kilometers long, 1.5 kilometers thick, and six kilometers wide (which are plausible estimates, eyeballing the photos)... you end up with a total hull volume of around 160 cubic kilometers, or around 1.6*10^11 cubic meters.
If the hull actually did mass, oh, 5*10^14 metric tons, that would be roughly... hm... 3000 kilograms per cubic meter.
Which would allow the majority of the ship to be composed of substances as dense as normal metal, leaving roughly half the internal volume for open space or low-density things like water storage tanks or plastics. This is actually improbably dense packing if the ship is made of materials no denser than steel, because most of the steel would be formed into machines that have a considerable amount of internal empty space. Think about a car engine- it's not a solid hunk of iron and weighs a LOT less than a solid hunk of iron of equal mass would.
Alternatively, there could be ultra-dense, exotic and unknown materials that take up a disproportionate share of the mass budget while increasing the amount of empty space in the interior- both the crew spaces and the internal space for machinery's moving parts and for cable access runs and whatnot.
Of course, my estimates are rough, but they give us something like a clue- and they suggest that the Executor's estimated power figures are broadly in line with reasonable estimates for its mass and (insanely high) acceleration.
If the hull actually did mass, oh, 5*10^14 metric tons, that would be roughly... hm... 3000 kilograms per cubic meter.
Which would allow the majority of the ship to be composed of substances as dense as normal metal, leaving roughly half the internal volume for open space or low-density things like water storage tanks or plastics. This is actually improbably dense packing if the ship is made of materials no denser than steel, because most of the steel would be formed into machines that have a considerable amount of internal empty space. Think about a car engine- it's not a solid hunk of iron and weighs a LOT less than a solid hunk of iron of equal mass would.
Alternatively, there could be ultra-dense, exotic and unknown materials that take up a disproportionate share of the mass budget while increasing the amount of empty space in the interior- both the crew spaces and the internal space for machinery's moving parts and for cable access runs and whatnot.
Of course, my estimates are rough, but they give us something like a clue- and they suggest that the Executor's estimated power figures are broadly in line with reasonable estimates for its mass and (insanely high) acceleration.
This space dedicated to Vasily Arkhipov
- Batman
- Emperor's Hand
- Posts: 16423
- Joined: 2002-07-09 04:51am
- Location: Seriously thinking about moving to Marvel because so much of the DCEU stinks
Re: Can someone tell me the mass of the Executor?
I find 30 kps^2 pretty pitiful actually and I'm very much afraid a solid hunk of iron the same mass as a car engine would weigh the same, at least of they're both in the same gravity well.
'Next time I let Superman take charge, just hit me. Real hard.'
'You're a princess from a society of immortal warriors. I'm a rich kid with issues. Lots of issues.'
'No. No dating for the Batman. It might cut into your brooding time.'
'Tactically we have multiple objectives. So we need to split into teams.'-'Dibs on the Amazon!'
'Hey, we both have a Martian's phone number on our speed dial. I think I deserve the benefit of the doubt.'
'You know, for a guy with like 50 different kinds of vision, you sure are blind.'
'You're a princess from a society of immortal warriors. I'm a rich kid with issues. Lots of issues.'
'No. No dating for the Batman. It might cut into your brooding time.'
'Tactically we have multiple objectives. So we need to split into teams.'-'Dibs on the Amazon!'
'Hey, we both have a Martian's phone number on our speed dial. I think I deserve the benefit of the doubt.'
'You know, for a guy with like 50 different kinds of vision, you sure are blind.'
- Rogue 9
- Scrapping TIEs since 1997
- Posts: 18678
- Joined: 2003-11-12 01:10pm
- Location: Classified
- Contact:
Re: Can someone tell me the mass of the Executor?
He clearly meant volume and mistyped. It happens.
It's Rogue, not Rouge!
HAB | KotL | VRWC/ELC/CDA | TRotR | The Anti-Confederate | Sluggite | Gamer | Blogger | Staff Reporter | Student | Musician
HAB | KotL | VRWC/ELC/CDA | TRotR | The Anti-Confederate | Sluggite | Gamer | Blogger | Staff Reporter | Student | Musician
- Batman
- Emperor's Hand
- Posts: 16423
- Joined: 2002-07-09 04:51am
- Location: Seriously thinking about moving to Marvel because so much of the DCEU stinks
Re: Can someone tell me the mass of the Executor?
I forgot the damned smiley again didn't I.
'Next time I let Superman take charge, just hit me. Real hard.'
'You're a princess from a society of immortal warriors. I'm a rich kid with issues. Lots of issues.'
'No. No dating for the Batman. It might cut into your brooding time.'
'Tactically we have multiple objectives. So we need to split into teams.'-'Dibs on the Amazon!'
'Hey, we both have a Martian's phone number on our speed dial. I think I deserve the benefit of the doubt.'
'You know, for a guy with like 50 different kinds of vision, you sure are blind.'
'You're a princess from a society of immortal warriors. I'm a rich kid with issues. Lots of issues.'
'No. No dating for the Batman. It might cut into your brooding time.'
'Tactically we have multiple objectives. So we need to split into teams.'-'Dibs on the Amazon!'
'Hey, we both have a Martian's phone number on our speed dial. I think I deserve the benefit of the doubt.'
'You know, for a guy with like 50 different kinds of vision, you sure are blind.'
-
- Emperor's Hand
- Posts: 30165
- Joined: 2009-05-23 07:29pm
Re: Can someone tell me the mass of the Executor?
Three thousand gravities is 'pitiful?' Compared to what fantasy of non-Newtonian speediness?Batman wrote:I find 30 kps^2 pretty pitiful actually...
Or is this you forgetting the smiley again?
and I'm very much afraid a solid hunk of iron the same mass as a car engine would weigh the same, at least of they're both in the same gravity well.
Rogue 9 is correct- I did not catch the typo.Rogue 9 wrote:He clearly meant volume and mistyped. It happens.
This space dedicated to Vasily Arkhipov
-
- Jedi Council Member
- Posts: 1650
- Joined: 2006-04-30 08:04pm
- Contact:
Re: Can someone tell me the mass of the Executor?
I knew I made a math error - acceleration should be 3000*9.8 ms/s^2, so if an ISD uses ~10% power (1e24W) to accelerate to 3000g, then mass estimate is ~1.1e13 metric tons
-
- Emperor's Hand
- Posts: 30165
- Joined: 2009-05-23 07:29pm
Re: Can someone tell me the mass of the Executor?
Hm. That would actually be rather on the light and fluffy side, unless I'm greatly overestimating the volume of the ship.
This space dedicated to Vasily Arkhipov
- Lord Revan
- Emperor's Hand
- Posts: 12235
- Joined: 2004-05-20 02:23pm
- Location: Zone:classified
Re: Can someone tell me the mass of the Executor?
that said all SW ships have anti-grav tech so that might effect the calculations.
I may be an idiot, but I'm a tolerated idiot
"I think you completely missed the point of sigs. They're supposed to be completely homegrown in the fertile hydroponics lab of your mind, dried in your closet, rolled, and smoked...
Oh wait, that's marijuana..."Einhander Sn0m4n
"I think you completely missed the point of sigs. They're supposed to be completely homegrown in the fertile hydroponics lab of your mind, dried in your closet, rolled, and smoked...
Oh wait, that's marijuana..."Einhander Sn0m4n
- Batman
- Emperor's Hand
- Posts: 16423
- Joined: 2002-07-09 04:51am
- Location: Seriously thinking about moving to Marvel because so much of the DCEU stinks
Re: Can someone tell me the mass of the Executor?
Nope. Sci-Fi wise I grew up on the Perryverse. For me capital ship accelerations start at 500 kps^2. And those engines actually were Newtonian (not real world physics by any stretch of the imagination but definitely reaction engines).Simon_Jester wrote:Three thousand gravities is 'pitiful?' Compared to what fantasy of non-Newtonian speediness? Or is this you forgetting the smiley again?Batman wrote:I find 30 kps^2 pretty pitiful actually...
I don't see why. Mass manipulation technology would, but that's not necessarily thew same tech as anti/countergravity. Anti/countergrav wouldn't do much outside a significant gravity well.Lord Revan wrote: that said all SW ships have anti-grav tech so that might effect the calculations.
'Next time I let Superman take charge, just hit me. Real hard.'
'You're a princess from a society of immortal warriors. I'm a rich kid with issues. Lots of issues.'
'No. No dating for the Batman. It might cut into your brooding time.'
'Tactically we have multiple objectives. So we need to split into teams.'-'Dibs on the Amazon!'
'Hey, we both have a Martian's phone number on our speed dial. I think I deserve the benefit of the doubt.'
'You know, for a guy with like 50 different kinds of vision, you sure are blind.'
'You're a princess from a society of immortal warriors. I'm a rich kid with issues. Lots of issues.'
'No. No dating for the Batman. It might cut into your brooding time.'
'Tactically we have multiple objectives. So we need to split into teams.'-'Dibs on the Amazon!'
'Hey, we both have a Martian's phone number on our speed dial. I think I deserve the benefit of the doubt.'
'You know, for a guy with like 50 different kinds of vision, you sure are blind.'
-
- Jedi Council Member
- Posts: 1650
- Joined: 2006-04-30 08:04pm
- Contact:
Re: Can someone tell me the mass of the Executor?
That's an estimate for an ISD, since we have better power figures for that. I would use that to scale based on hull volume to get a figure for the Executor, plus some more scaling factors since density would probably increase as size expands.Simon_Jester wrote:Hm. That would actually be rather on the light and fluffy side, unless I'm greatly overestimating the volume of the ship.
-
- Emperor's Hand
- Posts: 30165
- Joined: 2009-05-23 07:29pm
Re: Can someone tell me the mass of the Executor?
[blinks]
How did I miss that... D'oh.
Well, we can get at least a crude approximation by saying Executor is ten times bigger in every dimension and a thousand times heavier...
Anyway, an ISD that masses ten trillion tons would be insanely dense, with well over ten thousand tons of mass per cubic meter of hull, since the ISD has considerably less than one cubic meter of volume to begin with.
This strongly suggests that the ISD's engines are not a major power requirement, and that the ship is designed to operate at full engine power while still having even greater energies available to run the guns and the shields (and the sensors?). Alternatively, it means ISDs contain large amounts of degenerate or collapsed matter, because nothing else is dense enough to explain a ship that weighs ten thousand tons per cubic meter.
How did I miss that... D'oh.
Well, we can get at least a crude approximation by saying Executor is ten times bigger in every dimension and a thousand times heavier...
Anyway, an ISD that masses ten trillion tons would be insanely dense, with well over ten thousand tons of mass per cubic meter of hull, since the ISD has considerably less than one cubic meter of volume to begin with.
This strongly suggests that the ISD's engines are not a major power requirement, and that the ship is designed to operate at full engine power while still having even greater energies available to run the guns and the shields (and the sensors?). Alternatively, it means ISDs contain large amounts of degenerate or collapsed matter, because nothing else is dense enough to explain a ship that weighs ten thousand tons per cubic meter.
This space dedicated to Vasily Arkhipov