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ROTS left me with the impression that all Imperial forces had standing orders to terminate any Jedi with extreme prejudice and without hesitation. I can't imagine the circumstances under which any Jedi would survive long enough to surrender and allow themselves to be taken into custody, much less given a choice to succumb to the dark side of the Force and serve the Empire.

It's particularly confusing given what happened to Asajj Ventress, Darth Maul and his brother. They were all pawns of the Emperor during a time when they were actually useful against the thousands of Jedi who fought in the Clone Wars. After Order 66, what possible reason could the Emperor have to cultivate potential rivals? Even if they were denied the elite training of an actual Sith Lord, they were still well-trained.

Yeah, the Emperor admitted that Luke would be a great asset, but I always assumed that this was due to his exceptionally powerful lineage and that any other Jedi neophyte would be hunted down and bombarded by turbolasers, if necessary.

Well, not all Force users are Jedi. My guess is they pick up people who have potential but were never trained as Jedi and turn them into Inquisitors.

Edit: And no, none of them are in Palpatine or Vader's league, I gather. And even if they were, Palpatine would probably be too arrogant to admit it.

Let's see....
According to the Old EU....

The jedi were supposed to have 'wash-out corps' for younglings that were not taken as Padawans. Strictly speaking, they were not Jedi.
Supposedly, alot of Inquisitors and such came from there.

Also, there were numerous other Force orders that were 'laying low' prior to the Rise of the Empire. The Dark Force Religion and the Prophets of the Dark Side are both examples of such that Darth Sidious brought under his control.

Numerous Jedi fell to the Dark Side during the Clone Wars.

We also can't disqualify the possibility that post-ROTS, Order 66 was revised to 'Let Jedi surrender, but if they don't, kill them'.

Clone Wars indicates that there are more than one Force sensitive groups outside the authority of the Jedi. That is one potential source. Any Jedi that were captured rather than killed is another(though I suspect there are few of those). A final possibility is that they were recruited from the general population in much the same manner as Jedi. Though that would obviously be quite time consuming. But given that inquisitors had little training in the same fashion as Jedi, it would be faster to train them that Jedi.

As for the reason for using them after most Jedi were dead, it was because Force users are the most effective way to find other Force users given that they can detect each other at least somewhat(and Jedi, unlike Sith were not exactly trained to hide their presence). Clones might work quite well in a sudden surprise attack, but for the purpose of hunting down rouge Jedi, it is easier when your hunters are also Force sensitive. Bounty hunters also might do the job, but they would not be as effective at the tracking part given the abilities of Jedi.

Based on Tarkin's line in ANH about Vader being all that was left of that religion, I suspect that any inquisitors were themselves killed off by the time of the films after it was largely confirmed that the Jedi were hunted to extinction. Though it is also possible that a group like the inquisitors are connected to Kylo Ren and his group.

Out of universe it was obviously to have lightsaber duels that the characters could actually win rather than just survive.

I doubt these dark siders are really much of a threat to Palps or Vader. They are well trained but not Sith trained, the level involved between the two is probably substantial. Like the difference between a somewhat trained swordsman given a few pointers vs a master who has spent their whole life perfecting the art. Sure the somewhat trained guy is impressive against untrained but compared to the master he is no threat. Any dark sider who gets to big for his britches is probably taken out long before they can become an actual threat.

Though there ain't the legions of Jedi there was before there are still some around so having some guys who can wield a saber on staff is probably a good thing to deal with any lost padawans, rogue force users, or rival dark siders without getting the big cheeses off their asses to deal with every problem. Beyond that it gives them a fighter that is quite different and probably more effective then a squad of stormtroopers and more then likely can be more subtle. Like Mara Jade in the old EU, she was a dark sider but didn't go around flashing her saber. She was more like a secret agent performing assassinations and infiltrations aided by her force abilities. She was low key. Probably others are meant to be obvious, to draw in threats and to be used a blunt instrument.

Its probably also a bit of an insurance policy to have dark siders around. Having all those dark siders around gives the Sith a large potential pool of candidates with some prior knowledge should a master or apprentice kick the buck. It probably also gives them a smokescreen against enemies. Most people fighting a Sith, probably even alot of Jedi, aren't going to be able to tell the difference between a dark side adept and a full Sith. Someone fighting the dark sider could believe they got one the few in number Sith if they win thus allowing the real Sith to stay hidden even when striking. Plus the person would be woefully unprepared to face an actual Sith should the time come.

Where they came from, thats probably just "Sheev" cannibalizing them from other groups. Whatever the canon version of the old EUs AgriCorps, actual Jedi, various dark side cults, and just potential force users as identified by the Jedi. All could be enticed or forced into serving the Empire especially with the promise of power. I could see Vader and Palpatine going around after Jedi and dark siders not just to wipe them out but as a bit of a recruitment drive. Smack those bitches up with the power of the dark side, show them what real power is and then tempt them with it. Alot of force users would be lining up to have the potential to be as powerful as the Emperor or Vader.

Please leave the old EU out of this topic.

As of now, the new EU hasn't confirmed any survivors of Order 66 besides Obi-wan, Yoda, Ahsoka and Kanan. I get the feeling this is being done to de-trivialize the introduction of a new generation of Jedi-potential characters in the upcoming films.

Let's face it: the old EU just had too many damned Jedi running around the galaxy after their supposed extinction. And if there were any other living Jedi as of ROTJ, I doubt Yoda would have told Luke that he was the last. Yoda, if anyone, should have known.

So RIP Empatojayos Brand.

Adam Reynolds wrote:Based on Tarkin's line in ANH about Vader being all that was left of that religion, I suspect that any inquisitors were themselves killed off by the time of the films after it was largely confirmed that the Jedi were hunted to extinction. Though it is also possible that a group like the inquisitors are connected to Kylo Ren and his group.

I suspect that Tarkin knew that Vader was a Jedi and, until he heard about Obi-wan being on the Death Star, presumably the last. I doubt he was referring to Sith or Inquisitors that were never Jedi in the first place.

Well, Yoda is not omniscient.

He also might not consider Ashoka a Jedi, since she left the Order.

Yoda "watched" Luke for a long time, presumably via the Force. If there were others, yes, I'm assuming that Yoda would at least feel their presence in the Force. He and Obi-wan also had the benefit of Qui-gon's knowledge from the afterlife.

Perhaps. Or perhaps he paid special attention to Luke and/or was more able to sense him because, you know, he's a Skywalker.

In any case, the point about Ashoka is still valid, as far as I know.

Adam Reynolds wrote:Based on Tarkin's line in ANH about Vader being all that was left of that religion, I suspect that any inquisitors were themselves killed off by the time of the films after it was largely confirmed that the Jedi were hunted to extinction. Though it is also possible that a group like the inquisitors are connected to Kylo Ren and his group.

The old EU had a host of inquisitors and quite a few of them survived until after Endor, and that's on top of other Force-using servants of the Empire like the Emperor's Hands. Unless that is explicitly changed, I would assume it still holds- if there ever were Force-using inquisitors working for the Empire, then there's no reason to assume Palpatine kills them off just so that Tarkin can be right (as opposed to wrong, confused, or speaking specifically of the Jedi) when he talks to Vader in Episode IV.

If nothing else, new Force-using talent is going to continue to emerge for the foreseeable future. Palpatine would need to either coopt that rising talent, or suppress it, or some combination of the two. Even if the last trained Jedi is dead, that wouldn't be enough by itself.

Galvatron wrote:Please leave the old EU out of this topic.

As of now, the new EU hasn't confirmed any survivors of Order 66 besides Obi-wan, Yoda, Ahsoka and Kanan. I get the feeling this is being done to de-trivialize the introduction of a new generation of Jedi-potential characters in the upcoming films.

The "new EU" has existed for, what, a year or two? I'd bet money that we'll see survivors of Order 66 appearing in considerable numbers. Nothing about the new movies is going to create a new dynamic that wasn't already in play, and Jedi proliferation occurred there anyway.

Adam Reynolds wrote:Based on Tarkin's line in ANH about Vader being all that was left of that religion, I suspect that any inquisitors were themselves killed off by the time of the films after it was largely confirmed that the Jedi were hunted to extinction. Though it is also possible that a group like the inquisitors are connected to Kylo Ren and his group.

I suspect that Tarkin knew that Vader was a Jedi and, until he heard about Obi-wan being on the Death Star, presumably the last. I doubt he was referring to Sith or Inquisitors that were never Jedi in the first place.

Of course, Tarkin may simply NOT have known everything about the Force, the survivor status of any Jedi, or anything like that. So he might well be objectively wrong to say "you are the last of the Jedi."

Yoda would be more likely to remember or know, but even he is fallible- and moreover, he is speaking shortly before the destruction of the second Death Star. That's about... four or five years of the Rebellion era in which surviving Jedi might well be killed off.

The Romulan Republic wrote:Well, Yoda is not omniscient.

He also might not consider Ashoka a Jedi, since she left the Order.

There is still the problem that Rebels shows Ashoka in a leadership position in the rebellion. What would stop her from meeting the force sensitive that brought Obiwan out of hiding ?

Especially after she hears the name "Skywalker".

Yeah, Ashoka is a tricky issue. But then, she always was, what with their being no mention of Anakin's apprentice in Revenge of the Sith.

Has anyone ever calculated the odds of becoming a Jedi in a galaxy where there are only 10,000 of them out of countless trillions of sapient beings? I imagine such a thing would be even more rare without the infrastructure of the Jedi Order and Old Republic to help find them.

Is it ever stated in the films that there are only 10,000 Jedi? If not, then there being such a small number (compared to the galactic population) isn't such an issue. And if nothing else, that 10,000 figure may only refer to Masters, Knights and Padawans, and not the "washed out" Jedi who must be around somewhere (they can't all pass muster after all, no training program is 100% effective). Plus the other Force-users.

I always figured that Jedi were simply the most active or prominent Force-using organisation, or the one that worked most with the Republic.

I thought it was stated in one of the prequel novelizations, but I'm not sure.

Simon_Jester wrote:The "new EU" has existed for, what, a year or two? I'd bet money that we'll see survivors of Order 66 appearing in considerable numbers. Nothing about the new movies is going to create a new dynamic that wasn't already in play, and Jedi proliferation occurred there anyway.

We'll see, but I doubt we'll see anywhere NEAR the number of survivors that were in the old EU.

I'm sure that we might see a training center for Sith Inquisitors during the show.

--There is no hard number on Jedi. As TRR said, no training program is 100% effective; there will be wash-outs and trainees who for one reason or another simply did not finish, as well as people who have retired (so to speak).

--There is also no hard number on how many Jedi were killed in Order 66. Certainly the majority were-- that's probably a safe assumption. We don't know if they extended it to include the wash-outs, though.

--Yoda and Obi-wan are more concerned with survival, warning the remaining Jedi of Palpatine's treachery, and saving Leia and Luke than they are with who's survived. After last-minute attacks to try and decapitate the Sith by tackling Palpatine and Vader, they retreat to hide. The possibility that there are other Force sensitives or wannabe Jedi out there is left up in the air.

So I have no issue with there being Jedi wash-outs and other Force sensitives who were picked up by Palpatine and turned into a small order of Inquisitors in order to help chase down any leftover Jedi.

Actually, the "no training program is 100% effective" point was mine, but whatever.

Also, whilst the ROTS scenes only show some of Order 66, it's immediate effectiveness seems to eb against Jedi commanding clones, i.e. the more powerful/better trained/senior Jedi (Yoda, Ki-Adi-Mundi, Obi-Wan, Aayla Secura, that poor sod whose speeder bike crashed messily, etc). Which makes sense and may explain where the Inquisitors came from - focus on wiping out the senior Jedi, destroy their Temple and trainees, and their data archives. That leaves a lot of lower-level Jedi probably still running around (Yoda and Obi-Wan certainly thought there would be other survivors when they reset the beacon telling them to hide) that are most likely not strong-willed enough to oppose Palpatine corrupting them via the Dark Side.

So he gains useful Inquisitors, none of whom are going to be powerful enough to seriously challenge him or Vader, and the Jedi as an organisation are gone.

Force sensitivity/ability is a trait found all across the Star Wars galaxy. It is, IMO, naive to think that the Jedi or Sith are the only ones who these people go to/work for. I wouldn't be surprised if tales of witches/demons/monsters or the like, weren't due to force-capable people who learned their own methods of focusing their powers...

Elheru Aran wrote:--There is no hard number on Jedi. As TRR said, no training program is 100% effective; there will be wash-outs and trainees who for one reason or another simply did not finish, as well as people who have retired (so to speak).

With that firmly in mind, does it matter that the title of the Kanan comic book series actually states that he's the last padawan?

That doesn't make him the only one still remaining. It merely means no others were trained after him.

Batman wrote:That doesn't make him the only one still remaining. It merely means no others were trained after him.

Can't forget that Ashoka also survived, even if she wasn't a Jedi at the time.

Also "Last Padawan" is a better sounding title then "one of dozens of surviving padawans".

It's quite likely that Kanaan is not in fact absolutely the only surviving Padawan from the Order 66, but I suspect he's more or less the only one to "stay" Jedi, with the rest either blending into the general populace or joined the Empire as Dark Jedi (either thru drafting or by their own will).

That said I suspect that there's only few dozen survivors of Order 66 at most and it's most likely that large chunk of those were neutralized in the 15 years between ROTS and Rebels.

Lord Revan wrote: That said I suspect that there's only few dozen survivors of Order 66 at most and it's most likely that large chunk of those were neutralized in the 15 years between ROTS and Rebels.

Especially since padawans would likely be easier targets than knights or masters, having even less knowledge of how to possibly blend in with normal galactic civilization.

Galvatron wrote:I thought it was stated in one of the prequel novelizations, but I'm not sure.

Simon_Jester wrote:The "new EU" has existed for, what, a year or two? I'd bet money that we'll see survivors of Order 66 appearing in considerable numbers. Nothing about the new movies is going to create a new dynamic that wasn't already in play, and Jedi proliferation occurred there anyway.

We'll see, but I doubt we'll see anywhere NEAR the number of survivors that were in the old EU.

The old EU existed for about thirty-five years; EU material started being produced around 1980 and was still being produced in 2013 or 2014 (I forget when Disney lowered the chopper on it). If one new survivor Jedi is introduced every year for that span of time... it adds up.

Check back with me in 2050 and we'll see how many new Jedi survivors Disney has chosen to allow its secondary content creators to portray.