StarDestroyer.Net BBS

What would logically happen after The Force Awakens. On the one hand, the New Republic has lost its capital, government, and a good part of its fleet. On the other hand, the First Order has lost Starkiller Base, which has to have been the overwhelming majority of its industry (1 trillion ISD masses). On the gripping hand, there may be an Imperial Remaent in the Core, ready to strike the New Republic. What happens? Does the First Order steamroll the leaderless New Republic? Does the New Republic take a mothballed fleet and destroy the FO?

Without known the political relationship between the First Order and the other imperial remnant forces and state of those non-FO imperial forces we can't really give any real answer to this. For all we know the Imperial Remnant see the Republic as lesser of 2 evils and will ally against the First Order (I wouldn't be the first or the last time when someone supports extremist for their own ends only to turn against those extremist when they become a viability).

This obviously won't happen in canon, but if I were the Empire I'd do both - get the Republic to bleed themselves dry taking out the First Order, then destroy whatever's left and retake the Rim Territories.

What would be sensible, IMO, would be to amass whatever New republic forces you can muster, track down the First Order, and decisively wipe them out. There really isn't any sort of rescue/disaster recovery that can be provided to the people on the planets that were destroyed, so that's a moot point. It would also make sense to chase after the First Order before the trail gets too cold...

The Databank implies there is still a rump Galactic Empire, seperate from the First Order, while the Episode 7 Visual Dictionary (or the ICS, I can't recall off the top of my head) seems to imply that it became the First Order. So its hard to know, at this stage, whether there is such a rump.

I will cynically assume the First Order will assume the role that the Empire possessed in previous films, somehow securing control of a large portion of the galaxy in order to hunt and harass Finn and Poe, while Rey and Luke are off training.

The decapitated republic will somehow become the underdogs in this scenario and will join up with Leia's resistance; instantly becoming ragtag.

The Knights of Ren, minus Kylo, will join the hunt as minibosses, and we will see snoke in person. Finn will probably kill one of these Minibosses through some kind of daring reversal while leading the obviously superior opponent on some kind of chase, either duping them into getting themselves killed, or leading them into a trap. -Either that or Rey will show up at the end of the movie to save him.

I'm sure the New Order will forget it was looking for Luke, too. Unless they somehow had the foresight to bug the Millennium Falcon; in which case I suggest the Wars characters do a sweep for those some time, it's got to have dozens of tracking devices on it by now.

I honestly think Starkiller base was just the monster of the week; like the Robocop Ship in Into Darkness. I seriously doubt its loss, or the ramifications of its existence, will even be factored in in the new movie. Luke certainly didn't come out of hiding when he sensed countless billions die in the Starkiller Base's firing, or when he sensed his good old friend Han Solo was killed. It existed for the purposes of Removing the New Republic from the scene and making our heroes the underdogs.

It's hard to say what would actually happen "realistically" in this scenario because we don't know a lot about this Era of the galaxy. We don't know the size of the Repub fleet or how much of the fleet was destroyed in the attack, just for instance. I'm sure, in canon, the entire republic fleet as been destroyed and all of its member worlds are now defenseless. In a more "realistic" approach, I suspect that the newly decapitated republic will still be able to scrounge together enough ships to hunt down the New Order and put them on the run.

As far as what TNO is capable of: Other than possessing the resources to convert an entire planet into a giant, allegedly hyperspace capable toy, one that makes the 'ultimate galaxy-controlling weapon' that would be the deathstar look like a joke( the one that was heavily referenced in AOTC and the ending of ROTS, and the Empire kept talking up in ANH ) we don't know a ton about their resources or numbers. We don't even know where all their nice ships and uniforms came from.

Since they heavily ape the Empire's look and MO, it would be weird to think there were still separate imperial remnants out there. It would be weird to have the muppet babies equivalent of the Empire co-existing with the remnants of the Empire.

biostem wrote:What would be sensible, IMO, would be to amass whatever New republic forces you can muster, track down the First Order, and decisively wipe them out. There really isn't any sort of rescue/disaster recovery that can be provided to the people on the planets that were destroyed, so that's a moot point. It would also make sense to chase after the First Order before the trail gets too cold...

You seem to be regarding the First Order as a guerrilla/insurgent group in hiding, as opposed to a force that actually holds territory and can't just disappear. Given that they were shown to control a planet in TFA (yes, apparently a mobile planet, but it presumably wasn't always), is their any reason to believe that?

One way they could do it would be as a Pacific War situation, with Hosnian having been a Pearl Harbor, and having a midway in the next movie.

I'll be interested to see one of those new First Order star destroyers in battle, especially given their armament (3,000 turbolasers) compared to the old ISD. Actually, I can no longer find any canon references to the ISD's armaments. Does it still have only 60 turbolasers or can we assume that the figure has been revised upward?

The new ICS may have simply revised the definition of 'turbolaser' to include all the guns aboard the ship rather than a specific class...

Whatever they're called the ICS should explicitly say that they're "powerful enough to easily penetrate even the strongest Star Trek shields."

And Gigatons should always be in all caps.

NeoGoomba wrote:And Teratons should always be in all caps.

FIFY

Esquire wrote:This obviously won't happen in canon, but if I were the Empire I'd do both - get the Republic to bleed themselves dry taking out the First Order, then destroy whatever's left and retake the Rim Territories.

The First Order is said to be cast from the Emperor's inner circle, likely 'other' remnant(s) of the Empire have become more secular and pragmatic.

Additionally the events of TFA would benefit other remnant(s) immensely to side with the Republic. Relaxation of the Concordance 'lend lease' arrangements for certain sectors the Republic can no longer police, etc.

The First Order does demonstrate that the Republic didn't effectively have the means to enforce the Concordance, in all likelihood the other Imperial faction(s) aren't as weak as one may presume. So the Empire can come to the rescue, 'lend lease' would be an avenue to ingratiate the Republic held portions of the galaxy, by providing needed support and protection. Then The Empire at a moment of it's desire can trounce the usurping First Order, being the hero. So much of the galaxy being so grateful that the remnants of the Republic have no other option but to repatriate into a restored Imperial Senate.

Elheru Aran wrote:The new ICS may have simply revised the definition of 'turbolaser' to include all the guns aboard the ship rather than a specific class...

The Resurgent class is 'twice the length' of an Imperator, scaling overall proportions, that's a lot of real estate for turbolaser batteries

2915.81 metres according to the TFA ICS and 3,000 seems excessive even for something the size of the old Sovereign or Excipse.

FedRebel wrote:

Esquire wrote:This obviously won't happen in canon, but if I were the Empire I'd do both - get the Republic to bleed themselves dry taking out the First Order, then destroy whatever's left and retake the Rim Territories.

The First Order is said to be cast from the Emperor's inner circle, likely 'other' remnant(s) of the Empire have become more secular and pragmatic.

Additionally the events of TFA would benefit other remnant(s) immensely to side with the Republic. Relaxation of the Concordance 'lend lease' arrangements for certain sectors the Republic can no longer police, etc.

The First Order does demonstrate that the Republic didn't effectively have the means to enforce the Concordance, in all likelihood the other Imperial faction(s) aren't as weak as one may presume. So the Empire can come to the rescue, 'lend lease' would be an avenue to ingratiate the Republic held portions of the galaxy, by providing needed support and protection. Then The Empire at a moment of it's desire can trounce the usurping First Order, being the hero. So much of the galaxy being so grateful that the remnants of the Republic have no other option but to repatriate into a restored Imperial Senate.

do we really know what state the non-FO imperial remnant factions (or faction) are? Why should we assume that the Imperial remnant was just holding back for the FO to make the first strike.

Personally I'd have the Imperial remnant be in essense defanged by internal issues, causing the First Order to be the face of the Empire because bulk of the imperial forces are too busy fighting over (possibly even literally) who is the boss (or in favor of the boss) that they're useless. This wouldn't make the Rebel victory at Endor totally pointless since the empire was serverly weakened while it wasn't outright destroyed.

Rhadamantus wrote:What would logically happen after The Force Awakens. On the one hand, the New Republic has lost its capital, government, and a good part of its fleet. On the other hand, the First Order has lost Starkiller Base, which has to have been the overwhelming majority of its industry (1 trillion ISD masses). On the gripping hand, there may be an Imperial Remaent in the Core, ready to strike the New Republic. What happens? Does the First Order steamroll the leaderless New Republic? Does the New Republic take a mothballed fleet and destroy the FO?

The latter.

There are two reasonably solid facts:

The New Republic is larger and more powerful than the First Order.

The First Order has lost the Starkiller weapon.

The idea that they'd keep their entire fleet around one world is illogical on its face, so the logical result is that the First Order would simply be crushed.

Not that I think the following films will be logical.

NecronLord wrote:

Rhadamantus wrote:What would logically happen after The Force Awakens. On the one hand, the New Republic has lost its capital, government, and a good part of its fleet. On the other hand, the First Order has lost Starkiller Base, which has to have been the overwhelming majority of its industry (1 trillion ISD masses). On the gripping hand, there may be an Imperial Remaent in the Core, ready to strike the New Republic. What happens? Does the First Order steamroll the leaderless New Republic? Does the New Republic take a mothballed fleet and destroy the FO?

The latter.

There are two reasonably solid facts:

The New Republic is larger and more powerful than the First Order.

The First Order has lost the Starkiller weapon.

The idea that they'd keep their entire fleet around one world is illogical on its face, so the logical result is that the First Order would simply be crushed.

Not that I think the following films will be logical.

Two things: One, that would be a very boring story. Two, it is possible that the FO is insanely overmilitarized. It's been implied that they have parity or greater with the NR. Given time, the NR could build up fleets and smash them into dust. But Star Destroyer's take a while to make. The First Order will have an opportunity to win victories of the New Republic.

Rhadamantus wrote: Two things: One, that would be a very boring story. Two, it is possible that the FO is insanely overmilitarized. It's been implied that they have parity or greater with the NR. Given time, the NR could build up fleets and smash them into dust. But Star Destroyer's take a while to make. The First Order will have an opportunity to win victories of the New Republic.

Boring story? No more than the entirety of America's WW2 experience in the Pacific is a boring story after Pearl Harbour; the crushing can take quite some time and feature all manner of interesting stories while still being a crushing.

there's a limit how heavily you can militarize before you hit the limit of your logistical capabilities and the quality of your forces starts to suffer, it doesn't matter if you got 1000 start destroyers per system if bulk of them are held together with ducktape and prayers because you can make spare parts to fix them.

A logical way to keep the Republic out of the picture would be to say that loss of upper levels of Republic hierarchy has caused a political turmoil that is preventing the Republic for mounting an effective counter attack to the First Order. This doesn't assume that Republic fleet was destroyed at Hosnia but at same time does explain why they aren't crushing the First Order.

Here's how I see it.

According to the new canon material I've seen, the New Republic was as bad as the Old Republic was when Palpatine was Senator.

Rampant corruption and self-interest in the Senate and government.

It is supposed to be to the point Leia was seriously worried about being assassinated if she went to the captail looking for additional support.

And the First Order just destroyed that corrupt government.

We are probably going to see the New Republic start to crumple and fragment the way the 'Legends EU' Empire did after Endor. Break away states that might end up fighting each other.

This makes Luke training Rey and a new generation of Jedi even more important, to forge peace between them.

With the galaxy fragmented, the First Order's military may start conquering, or at least extorting systems for resources while they build up more.

Because democracies crumble under the first unprovoked atrocity, and certainly don't militarise and strike back hard.

I don't disagree Solauren, that this is likely the narrative that will come up, but in a 'logical' scenario, the Republic would not have had its fleet totally destroyed because they're all orbiting one planet and its moons, and would respond like any other nation that was attacked with a decapitating strike by an inferior opponent who now doesn't have the power to do it again.

The logical Scenario is that Hux, a "general" of staggering incompetence in battle as an admiral (his warship managed to have large numbers of its weapons destroyed by a fucking fighter with a non-proficient gunner) and a general (One guy escaped him after crashing in a desert when he had thousands of troops at his disposal) and quite probably literally-zero military experience, is exaggerating to his brainwashed child soldiers about the idea that the entire Republic Fleet will be destroyed, or he means to say that the Starkiller will fire again and again until the fleet is destroyed.

Yeah, General Hux seemed like the type of bumbling ass-clown that Vader would have Force-choked without hesitation. It'll be nice to see Ren do so if he grew a pair after TFA.

It might also occur to the good guys that reinstating the Republic as it used to be was never the right thing to do after toppling the Empire. Perhaps they need something more like a benevolent constitutional monarchy with someone like Princess Leia as its head of state.

Personally, I would be satisfied if Episode IX ends the saga with the galaxy finally united under the rule of a new government that both sides found acceptable.

The Republic endured for a thousand generations, it seemed to work very very well for a very very long time. I'd be inclined to give it a few more shots.

Also, checking the actual film, what suspisiously-young-for-a-general Hux says is "This great machine which you have build, upon which we stand will bring an end to the Senate, to their cherished fleet, all remaining systems will BOW TO THE FIRST ORDER!" Perhaps he just meant to keep on destroying Repulic fleet bases and fuel stations until there was no fleet capable of function.

(As an aside, I was initially disappointed that they didn't use Veers in that role, especially as he's still working {he's a regular in Game of Thrones for instance} and still looks credibly General-esque but now that I've had time to reflect how largely-ineffectual Hux is, I'm rather glad it's not Veers, given how he was easily the most effective Imperial in the original films)

NecronLord wrote:The Republic endured for a thousand generations, it seemed to work very very well for a very very long time. I'd be inclined to give it a few more shots.

The Old Republic, however, relied on the Jedi and their Order no longer exists. Besides, if galactic history in the new EU is anything like it was in the old EU, Jedi failures were responsible for some of the bloodiest wars during those thousand generations.

I'd love to see the story go in a new direction, wherein the good guys (including Luke) agree to establish a new government that no longer requires the Jedi for its endurance. It could be what the Empire should have been were it not secretly ruled by an evil Sith Lord and his fiendish cronies.

That doesn't mean the Jedi should disappear. Not at all. In fact, nothing would make me happier than to see them become an order of wandering heroes who maintain peace and order through good deeds irrespective of the whims of politicians. So instead of leaving slaves to their miserable existence on backwaters like Tatooine, the new Jedi would liberate them.