25 Years since Heir to the Empire Launched the EU

[MKSheppard]

I remember waiting for the final book in the Thrawn trilogy to hit the local public libraries.

God. I feel old.

Is this how people felt in 1991 with Star Trek VI and the 25th Anniversary of Trek?

Obligatory GADM Thrawn:



EDITED TO ADD: I also remember seeing Heir appearing in bookstores in hardcover format.

[Batman]

Heck at least you got to see that. You know what a PITA it was to get english language books (nevermind movies) in Germany in those years?

[Elheru Aran]

Recently I found the anniversary edition (edit: of Heir, if that was unclear) in the local bookstore. It's a nice hardcover, with annonations from Zahn and some of the publishing people associated with it, and a short story detailing one of Thrawn's exploits pre-TTT. Read through it in a few sittings. Not bad, hopefully they come out with similar for the other two.

Edit for clarification.

[U.P. Cinnabar]

I remember waiting for the final book in the Thrawn trilogy to hit the local public libraries.

God. I feel old.

Is this how people felt in 1991 with Star Trek VI and the 25th Anniversary of Trek?

Definitely for ST6, because it was the last hurrah for the original crew, and the end of the franchise's high-water mark.

The 25th anniverary, not so much.

That being said, I couldn't wait for The Last Command to hit the bookshelves either. The only EU novel I was more excited
about wanting to read than the final part of the Thrawn Trilogy was Shadows Of the Empire.

(Shatterpoint is my favorite Expanded Universe novel, but I wasn't expecting a whole lot from it when I'd bought it, other than reading material to break the boredom. Matthew Stover absolutely surprised the hell out of me with not that just that novel, but with his novelization of ROTS)

EDIT: That pic of Thrawn, Vader, Palpatine and Pellaeon(?!) would make a hell of a poster.

[Elheru Aran]

Shadows of the Empire was... mediocre. Not that that stopped me from snapping it up and a bunch of the toys. I had the Swoop micro-machines with a Dash Rendar figure...

Of course, I had zero taste in literature when I was younger. Children of the Jedi, Darksaber, Jedi Academy Trilogy, I Jedi... at least I never had to tolerate Crystal Star, and the Lando Calrissian Adventures-- if not very 'Star Wars' in feel-- was a fun enough romp.

Then, fifteen years later, I pick up the last volume of the Jedi Academy Trilogy (I only had the first two for some reason) and couldn't get more than a few chapters into that dreck. It's remarkable how one's taste can change...

[U.P. Cinnabar]

Shadows of the Empire was... mediocre.

Strip out everything Star Wars, and Shadows is your generic Steve Perry martial arts/sci-fi novel. Hence the anticipation, as I was impressed with his Matador series*, and some of his short story work for The Fleet anthologies, and was eager to see how well he could write a SW novel.

It wasn't a bad novel, but I was fairly disappointed by the effort.

I never really got into either the Jedi Academy or the Young Jedi Knights novels, especially when they started with that Emperor's son horseshit. And, I didn't much care for the Legacy of the Force, Fate of the Force, and Yuuzhan Vong books.

*Everything up to The Albino Knife at least. In retrospect, he could've stopped writing any more Matador books after the third one, as he told the story he needed to tell.

[Batman]

Hey! At least Shadows of the Empire came with a soundtrack!
I don't know why everybody hates Children of the Jedi-that book was merely not good, compared to the abominations that were the JAT, Darksaber, and Crystal Star (possibly the worst Star Wars story it is physically possible to write) and while I don't particularly like I, Jedi either I'm biased against it because I don't like a) first-person narratives and b) Corran Horn.
'Not liking', in the case of Corran Horn, meaning 'I want to purge it. With fire'.

[Elheru Aran]

The problem with Corran Horn was that he was Mike Stackpole's personal fuck-toy Mary Sue. Notice how in the Wraith Squadron books, even the one where they're working alongside Rogue Squadron, he appears for like... one scene, at the very end? I halfway think Allston wrote it that way to piss off Stackpole... Anyway, yeah, I, Jedi was pretty bad. Giant Jedi apparition made out of fire and smoke? Gag.

At least it gave Exar Kun a little more screentime and he smacked Corran around a bit, which I always appreciated.

[Crazedwraith]

I see the Mary Sue thing but really no-one notices that Corran constantly got himself nearly killed through arrogance and stupidity? I mean it's basically an intentional character flaw. He spends I,Jedi basically being entirely wrong about nearly everything and needs Luke to turn up bail him out and do the heavy lifting when they rescue Mirax.

[Darth Yan]

I admittedly lived under a rock and spent a long time believing that the vong had conquered coruscant and the jedi were still hated and hunted (Yeah I didn't learn that the series had ended with the jedi victorious in 03 until 200 and fucking 5.

But when I caught up certain vong books rocked my socks. Destiny's way traitor final prophecy and unifying force were sublime.

[NeoGoomba]

I remember buying a copy of Heir in a CVS I think. My parents noticed me reading it non-stop and that Christmas I got a hardcover Dark Force Rising. The series certainly rocked my socks as a kid. And yeah, I'm with Shep. Now I feel damn old.

[Galvatron]

I enjoyed Heir to the Empire and even accepted it as a surrogate sequel to the OT until Dark Empire #1 was published and turned the entire Thrawn campaign into a footnote. It essentially spoiled the fuck out of Zahn's two follow-up books and rendered them inconsequential filler stories.

God, I hate Dark Empire.

[NeoGoomba]

Dark Empire has gotten so much hate, that I've actually stayed away from it. Are there any decent qualities to it that make it deserve at least a cursory read?

[Galvatron]

Nope. It's the definition of 90s wank, Star Wars-style.

[MKSheppard]

I enjoyed Heir to the Empire and even accepted it as a surrogate sequel to the OT until Dark Empire #1 was published and turned the entire Thrawn campaign into a footnote. It essentially spoiled the fuck out of Zahn's two follow-up books and rendered them inconsequential filler stories.

God, I hate Dark Empire.

Now you're making me feel old.

I ordered Dark Empire from AMZN on May 1, 1999 as part of a $42~ order that also included Vision of the Future Hardback; with some of teh money from my first job, because some people on ASVS were talking about how great it was, and how it was referenced in the SWTC etc.

So I wait and wait.

Then I get it, and art is horrible as fuck and the story's not really that great. It's massively underwhelming, tbh.

[Ralin]

Notice how in the Wraith Squadron books, even the one where they're working alongside Rogue Squadron, he appears for like... one scene, at the very end? I halfway think Allston wrote it that way to piss off Stackpole...

Or gee, maybe Allston knew that Han and Corran would be meeting for the first time years later in I, Jedi and he consciously avoided using Stackpole's character other than that one gag scene to make sure there weren't any plot holes?

Quick Google check says that I, Jedi was published three years before Wraith Squadron.

I see the Mary Sue thing but really no-one notices that Corran constantly got himself nearly killed through arrogance and stupidity? I mean it's basically an intentional character flaw. He spends I,Jedi basically being entirely wrong about nearly everything and needs Luke to turn up bail him out and do the heavy lifting when they rescue Mirax.

Seriously. He's a flawed character. His arrogance is not supposed to be likable. Never got the Stackpole hate around here.

[Eternal_Freedom]

Notice how in the Wraith Squadron books, even the one where they're working alongside Rogue Squadron, he appears for like... one scene, at the very end? I halfway think Allston wrote it that way to piss off Stackpole...

Or gee, maybe Allston knew that Han and Corran would be meeting for the first time years later in I, Jedi and he consciously avoided using Stackpole's character other than that one gag scene to make sure there weren't any plot holes?

I didn't know about the publishing dates but this does explain the in-universe joke in "Solo Command," that because Corran and Han are never seen in the same place, people begin assuming they're actually the same person, despite different age, size, weight, personality etc.

Suddenly that goes from being "mildly amusing side gag" to "that's actually pretty clever."

[Ralin]

I didn't know about the publishing dates but this does explain the in-universe joke in "Solo Command," that because Corran and Han are never seen in the same place, people begin assuming they're actually the same person, despite different age, size, weight, personality etc.

Suddenly that goes from being "mildly amusing side gag" to "that's actually pretty clever."

I never actually looked up the dates until now, but I always assumed that was it, yeah. Allston always seemed very respectful about other people's characters, and a good team player when working on arcs with multiple authors like in the NJO.

[Galvatron]

I ordered Dark Empire from AMZN on May 1, 1999 as part of a $42~ order that also included Vision of the Future Hardback; with some of teh money from my first job, because some people on ASVS were talking about how great it was, and how it was referenced in the SWTC etc.

So I wait and wait.

Then I get it, and art is horrible as fuck and the story's not really that great. It's massively underwhelming, tbh.

Yeah, you were misinformed. The people who thought it was great probably did so because it was anti-minimalist or provided ammo against the Trekkies back then. There was nothing else about it to like.

[Batman]

It was more Wars material at a time when such material was rare. At that time the EU meant TTT, the Han Solo/Lando Callrissian trilogies, and for those who wanted to admit its existence 'Splinter of the Mind's Eye' and that was it. The massive Legends EU we've come to know and loathe hadn't happened yet.

[biostem]

In many of these stories that take place after the fall of the Empire, do they ever address how the remnants are able to pool together enough funds to pay for all these fleets and personnel?

[Ralin]

In many of these stories that take place after the fall of the Empire, do they ever address how the remnants are able to pool together enough funds to pay for all these fleets and personnel?

I think it was just assumed they continued to draw from worlds like Carida and Kuat that were still loyal to whatever was the largest and most legit-looking Imperial leader that week. That and mass conscription, requisitioning from whatever private industry they could get their hands on, etc.

[biostem]

I suppose if some former Imperial commander/captain/admiral had even 1 star destroyer and crew still at their disposal, that'd be enough to confiscate/conscript enough equipment and personnel to keep them going for a while...

[The Romulan Republic]

A lot of the plot of The Thrawn Trilogy was about how Thrawn was supplying his war machine.

A combination of raiding, salvaging, cloning, and plundering old Imperial stores as I recall, in addition to having at least one major ship yard at his disposal (capable of manufacturing Star Destroyers).

Edit: Come to think of it, though its been a while since I read it, I believe multiple ship yards were referenced, though only one (Bilbrigi) was actually depicted in detail.

[Galvatron]

It was more Wars material at a time when such material was rare. At that time the EU meant TTT, the Han Solo/Lando Callrissian trilogies, and for those who wanted to admit its existence 'Splinter of the Mind's Eye' and that was it. The massive Legends EU we've come to know and loathe hadn't happened yet.

It wasn't long after TTT that both Bantam and Dark Horse started spewing out scads of KJA's horseshit too and all of it treated WEG's fucking RPG like holy writ. There were also the PC games, starting with X-wing.

In many of these stories that take place after the fall of the Empire, do they ever address how the remnants are able to pool together enough funds to pay for all these fleets and personnel?

Nope. It was retconned years later that Thrawn was supported by what was left of the Emperor's Ruling Council and the Moffs, but Zahn never addressed in TTT. In the Jedi Search trilogy, Admiral Daala outright stated that she was the highest ranking officer in the galaxy following Thrawn's death.