StarDestroyer.Net BBS

The release of this book is just further proof of a point I've come to regard with the Legends/Disney split: it was only ever to provide a clean slate for post-Endor storytelling and everything before then would eventually be 're-canonized.' Case in point, this new Complete Locations, which includes the CLs of the previous six episodes plus Ep. VII. Except for minor editing everything is almost exactly as it was in the Legends Complete Locations. Perhaps the most notable changes was shrinking the DSII from 900km to 160km, but even then that changes was popping up in published material pre-split. Nevertheless, though much of the information is the same, it still has bearing on the new Disney canon involving debates, and some of this will be a refresher for people who have read it before. This initial post will focus on the Ep. VII material, of which I was a little disappointed (i.e. nothing about the destroyed Republic capital), but will update from the other episodes shortly.

Introduction, p. 8 wrote:Republic and Empire
With more than a million inhabited worlds, the galaxy is divided into varying alliances and power blocs, the most important of which is the Galactic Republic. The Republic endures, in one form or another, for millennia, but eventually collapses from internal corruption and Separatist movements. Adroitly manipulating this disorder, Supreme Chancellor Palpatine seizes emergency powers and converts the Republic into the Empire to achieve his Sith revenge. The Empire absorbs and controls many star systems but does not bother with small fringe worlds and alliances that represent no danger to it.

Sense of scale of the setting.

Planet Profiles, p. 10 wrote:There are hundreds of millions of worlds harboring intelligence life and countless millions more where intelligent life is now extinct or never arose.

Seems to be contradicting the line above, but it could be the previous statement was concerning worlds officially part of the Republic/Empire, not including colonies/outposts/etc.

Planet Profiles, p. 10 wrote:Coruscant
...
Population: 1 trillion (estimate)

Same low-ballish number, though again it's labeled an estimate so there are almost definitely more people living there.

Planet Profiles, p. 10 wrote:Kamino
Kamino is a stormy world in a system of 13 planets circling an aging star that straggles south of the Rishi Maze, an irregular dwarf galaxy in a close and decaying orbit about the Galactic Republic.

Reconfirmation that the Rishi Maze is a dwarf galaxy outside the GFFA galaxy proper, again indicating the type of speed and range of hyperdrives.

Planet Profiles, p. 11 wrote:Starkiller Base
During the height of the Galactic Empire, Palpatine demanded deep space exploration of the Unknown Region, using ancient navigational routes uncovered in the captured Jedi Temple as the backbone of such expeditions. It was in this moment that the Empire secured a small, frozen world with a natural abundance of energy-focusing kyber crystals. The Empire mined these crystals to create focusing arrays for the Death Stars' superlasers. When the First Order fled into the Unknown Regions, it turned this world into the heart of its secret holdings. A massive engineering project transformed it into Starkiller Base, a weapons platform of terrifying destructive power and range.
Galactic Region: Mobile
Diameter: 660 km
Principle Terrain: Forests, snow, mountains
Number of Moons: 0
Length of Year: Variable
Population: Unknown (classified)

Official information on SB, including confirmation that it can move, but the diameter really sticks out; this thing is smaller than Pluto's moon. It raises the question of how exactly something so small is able to support a seemingly natural ecosystem and exhibit a normal gravity The First Order doing it artificially seems unlikely: artificial gravity they can handle , but why waste time on landscaping? The other option is that the planet is dense enough to exhibit the characteristics of a larger planet, which I don't want to guess at the sort of physics that might be defying.

Jakku, p. 174 wrote:A forlorn world on the edge of settled space, Jakku is a bleak desert globe notable as the site of the Empire's last stand a year after its defeat at Endor. With the battle going against them, Imperial warships used tractor beams to lock onto New Republic foes, dragging them down to the surface.

Timeline of the fall of the Empire, and the strength of Imperial tractor beams. I know some people have criticize how quickly the Empire fell apart, but it seems somewhat plausible: arguably the only thing holding the Empire together in the first place was Palpatine, followed by Vader. The Legends canon made it explicit that he'd built the Empire to only function with him at its helm, but nothing in Disney canon has indicated Palpatine acted any differently.

Rey's Home, p. 176 wrote:Casualty of War
While in Imperial service, the AT-AT Rey now calls home was designated Hellhound 2, and formed part of the military compliment of the Star Destroyer Interrogator.
...
Rey has salvaged fuel cells from the AT-AT's laser-cannon energizer and from two wrecked speeder bikes, then wired them to scavenged TIE solar panels.

AT-ATs use fuel cells to power their weapons.

Rey's Home, p. 177 wrote:Scavenger's Work
...
Rey's work area also includes an old Y-wing computer that she uses to study ship schematics, run flight simulations, and practice alien languages and droidspeak.

An attempt to address some of the Mary Sue-ishness regarding Rey.

Rey's Home, p. 177 wrote:As well as its remote location, Rey chose Hellhound 2 as her home because its heat shielding has remained largely intact. This allows her to work within its interior without being cooked by the heat of a Jakku day.

Self-evident heat shielding.

Rey's Home, p. 177 wrote:Terrain sensors in foot have been removed and repurposed as motion sensors.

Example of AT-AT sensors.

First Order Military, p. 182 wrote:Legions Reborn
The First Order's stormtroopers are not the poorly trained garrison troops that made up large parts of the Imperial army.

I think it's somewhat unfortunate they keep harping on about how shitty classic Stormtroopers are, if only because it reinforces a bad stereotype and (in terms of storytelling) diminishes the various SW heroes' actions.

First Order Military, p. 183 wrote:Star Destroyers
The First Order made the construction of new shipyards within the Unknown Regions a priority, and within a relatively short time these yards were producing huge new capital ships. While the fleet does not rival the Old Empire in terms of numbers, the ships themselves are a significant improvement. The Resurgent-class, as they have been named, are much larger than an Imperial Star Destroyer, carry more starfighters and stormtroopers, have improved defenses, and utilize advanced kyber crystal-augmented weaponry. They outgun anything in the New Republic by a considerable margin.

First we get mention of kyber crystals in their weapons, and the statement of outgunning anything the NR has. In the Legends canon the NR managed to capture and repurpose a lot of former Imperial ships, including SSDs, so I'm curious if the same is true with Disney canon.

Starkiller Base, p. 184 wrote:Fierce Machine
The Starkiller weapon draws on decades of secret Imperial research into harnessing the potential of dark energy. A collector on one side of the planet gathers dark energy from a host star and redirects it into the planetary core. There, this energy is bound by a containment field created by a combination of the planet's magnetic field and unique crystal substructure, and artificial forces regulated by a thermal oscillator. A breach is then opened in the field, funneling the dark energy into a shaft on the planet's other side. This escaping energy takes a form as an astonishingly power beam that tunnels through hyperspace itself, its lethal force undiminished even after traveling halfway across the galaxy. A planet is a barely adequate vessel for containing such terrifying power; even the Starkiller's normal operations destabilize the crust of the host, breeding groundquakes and atmospheric disturbances that boil up into vicious storms.

Some technobable explanation of how the weapon works - I think dark energy was chosen because people wouldn't buy "quantum" or "unobtanium" - but we get an idea of the weapon's range.

Starkiller Base, p. 185 wrote:Resistance pilots have been told to expect at least 80% casualties.

One wonders what their normal casualty rate would be against standard targets.

Starkiller Base, p. 185 wrote:Stolen World
Starkiller Base was once a remote and mysterious world known only to a handful in the galaxy. During the time of the Empire it had been used as a source of kyber crystals for use in the Death Stars' superlasers. Before fleeing into the Unknown Regions, the founders of the First Order secured research logs from the secret Imperial labs that had tested these experimental weapons. Its location revealed, the world became the heart of a new secret empire, with the First Order harvesting its kyber crystals for use in its war machine before turning the planet itself into a mobile weapons platform.

If the planet's environment is a natural and not artificial construct, I wonder if it's due to the presence of the kyber crystals which were responsible for it.

Balrog wrote:

Planet Profiles, p. 11 wrote:Starkiller Base
During the height of the Galactic Empire, Palpatine demanded deep space exploration of the Unknown Region, using ancient navigational routes uncovered in the captured Jedi Temple as the backbone of such expeditions. It was in this moment that the Empire secured a small, frozen world with a natural abundance of energy-focusing kyber crystals. The Empire mined these crystals to create focusing arrays for the Death Stars' superlasers. When the First Order fled into the Unknown Regions, it turned this world into the heart of its secret holdings. A massive engineering project transformed it into Starkiller Base, a weapons platform of terrifying destructive power and range.
Galactic Region: Mobile
Diameter: 660 km
Principle Terrain: Forests, snow, mountains
Number of Moons: 0
Length of Year: Variable
Population: Unknown (classified)

Official information on SB, including confirmation that it can move, but the diameter really sticks out; this thing is smaller than Pluto's moon. It raises the question of how exactly something so small is able to support a seemingly natural ecosystem and exhibit a normal gravity The First Order doing it artificially seems unlikely: artificial gravity they can handle , but why waste time on landscaping? The other option is that the planet is dense enough to exhibit the characteristics of a larger planet, which I don't want to guess at the sort of physics that might be defying.

For that matter, is a diameter of 660km consistent with the visuals in the film? Is it small enough that it would produce visible curvature absent from what we see of the surface?

Captain Seafort wrote:For that matter, is a diameter of 660km consistent with the visuals in the film? Is it small enough that it would produce visible curvature absent from what we see of the surface?

Doubtful, although the Rebels Resistance were helpful enough to put up a size comparison display of the first Death Star with Starkiller Base. Assuming that display was to scale, I wonder if anyone could grab a pic and do a comparison?

Anyways, on to the Ep. I section. As I said, it basically includes all the same information from the first one, including the strange hollow/plasma-filled interior of the planet Naboo.

Droid Control Ship, p. 23 wrote:Conference Room
The control ship's centersphere contains 50 conference rooms. As these rooms are used for trade negotiations, they are specially adapted to place clients at a disadvantage. The adaptations include variable gas emitters and remote-operated "concentration deficit" chairs, which make it difficult for customers to think clearly.

Thought it was too funny to not mention, I'm curious what exactly such chairs would do to break one's concentration. Randomly vibrate? Heat up/cool down?

Theed Hanger, p. 25 wrote:Blast-proof roof plates.

Theed Hanger, p. 25 wrote:Brick sections of the hanger are embedded with high-tensile durasteel support webbing to protect the building from blast damage.

Even though they might look normal, the material used to build the hanger incorporates enhanced defensive technology. This would presumably apply to other normal-looking buildings too.

Theed Hanger, p. 25 wrote:Power transmitters degrade and burn out enemy radar systems.

Electronic warfare equipment stationed in the hanger's air traffic control attic.

Theed Hanger, p. 25 wrote:Detective the Invasion Force
Naboo's powerful sensor arrays immediately detected the arrival of the Trade Federation's landing ships, which did not even bother to use their stealth systems.

Curious what they mean by stealth systems, perhaps a type of cloaking shield? The landers certainly qualify as being large enough, larger at least than the Millennium Falcon which was stated to be too small for one.

Watto's Junkshop, p. 31 wrote:Staying Cool
The junkshop's plain adobe outer shell covers durasteel double walls with a layer of coolant flowing between them. Microelements embedded in the dome's power grid force by-product warm ait out through slots in the skirt and the top.

Another example of appearances being deceiving, in this case plain adobe material hiding more advanced structures underneath.

Mos Espa Arena, p. 37 wrote:Electrostatic repellers in walls to prevent buildup of sand inside.

Mos Espa Arena, p. 37 wrote:Magnetic suppressor fields dampen engine noise, dust, and sand.

Mos Espa Arena, p. 37 wrote:Magnetic suppressor field collection ducts.

Same as above, advanced technology hidden behind the facade of primitive exterior.

Coruscant I, p. 41 wrote:City Skyline
Coruscant's dazzling skyline is a potent symbol of the power and authority concentrated in the city. Many of its buildings reach 6,000 meters (20,000 feet) into the atmosphere, with sleek, transparisteel edifices standing next to older duracrete structures.

Height of Coruscant's buildings, but that doesn't tell the whole story:

Federal District, p. 42 wrote:Current surface level is designated Level 5217.

At the low end, even if each level defined as being 3m tall, that's 15+ km of construction covering the entirety of the planet. Never mind the above buildings which extend another 6km into the sky.

Jedi Temple I, p. 47 wrote:Holomap indicates galaxy-wide hotspots, including disturbances in the Force and areas of unusual Force concentrations.

Wanted to point out, because I think it gets lost sometimes in debates, that part of the Jedi's ability to keep the peace is sensing trouble spots through the Force.

Jedi Temple I, p. 47 wrote:Eradictors scramble attempts to pinpoint location of Jedi in the field by locking on to their communications with the Temple.

The Jedi utilizing electronic warfare as well, these being built into the Temple's spires.

The Invasion of Naboo, p. 49 wrote:Landing Ships
...
Each landing ship carries 11 MTTs (Multi-Troop Transports), 114 AATs (Armored Assault Tanks), and legions of droid troops.

Capacity of a C-9979 landing ship.

The Invasion of Naboo, p. 49 wrote:Advance of Evil
The invasion force that advances upon Theed in the sharp light of a Naboo early morning comprises 33 large transports, each carrying 112 battle droids, and 342 battle tanks battle tanks, as well as droid starfighters and infantry.

The specific force which captured Theed itself - which given the information above is the compliment of three C-9979 landing ships - and MTT carrying capacity.

Grass Plains Battle, p. 52 wrote:A string of well-placed shield generators, carried by swamp lizards called fambaas, generate protection for troops as wide as a kilometer (0.6 miles).

Area-of-effect for Gungan shield generators.

Grass Plains Battle, p. 53 wrote:Gungan energy balls, filled with high-voltage plasma, burst open on impact, short-circuiting battle droids and droidekas.

Self-explanatory.

Generator Battle, p. 55 wrote:Laser doors lock into position in response to potentially lethal power outputs that occur intermittently during plasma activation process.

Explaining the odd break in the Duel of the Fates.

Ep. II

Speeder Chase I, p. 62 wrote:Kenobi struggles to hold on to the speeding assassin droid as it repeatedly sends defensive electrical shocks into his unprotected hands. Several skylanes below him, Anakin pilots his airspeeder, using the Force to seek his Master and hoping that the droid will lead him to the unknown assassin.

Reconfirming the defensive weapons the droid used, something which was mentioned in the novelization.

Speeder Chase I, p. 63 wrote:Window Shields
Many structures on Coruscant have defensive shields to protect windows from stray or out-of-control vehicles. Zam's assassin droid uses a short-range disruptor to "burn" through the window shield of Padme's suite.

An idea of the shield's strength if they can handle crashing vehicles (and those vehicles could be potentially quite big/fast) and what was used to get through them.

Speeder Chase I, p. 63 wrote:When the bounty hunter Zam Wesell spots an intruder handing from her droid, she reaches for projectile rifle. With Obi-Wan in her scopes, she fires at the droid rather than the Jedi - knowing that a Jedi who plunges to his death leaves fewer clues than one who dies with a traceable slug in him.

Stating the obvious I believe, but I've seen people argue this point before.

Speeder Chase II, p. 65 wrote:Bounty hunter Wesell fires a blaster bolt at the couplings of an on-surface power refinery, activating massive electrical bolts between the prongs. As the Jedi have no time to avoid them, they are enveloped in nerve-jarring lightning. The powerful shock would induce a heart attack in those not trained in the Force.

Proof Jedi can survive explicitly deadly electrical shocks thanks to their abilities.

Kamino, p. 73 wrote:Landing Platforms
...
Despite the severity of weather conditions on Kamino, landing platforms on the planet are generally uncovered. A shield generator array on the underside, however, can be activated to protect the ship from power overloads during electrical storms. Sensor masts provide electronic surveillance and warn of any accidental intrusions.

Level of protection provided by landing platforms.

Military Complex, p. 77 wrote:The clone military education complex, which dominates Tipoca City, is the biggest training center on Kamino. Its current production is dedicated to fulfilling the Republic contract, the largest cloning project the Kaminoan government has ever undertaken. When Obi-Wan arrives, Tipoca is already primed to deliver 200,000 clone troops, while facilities across the planet are equipped to produced millions more.

Reconfirming that the 200,000 "units" Lama Sui talked about in Ep. II refers to individual troopers, although it still maintains the existence of millions more "ready to go" and no limit on how many may be ultimately produced.

Military Complex, p. 77 wrote:The first batch of clones is ready for deployment; millions more are undergoing intensive performance evaluations.

Further proof the 'millions more' is in regards to clones which are ready to go now (relatively speaking), not millions more which still need time to grow/train.

Military Complex, p. 77 wrote:Knowing that the Jedi will be leading the troops, trainers El Les and Bric order the clones to march in double file so they can take shelter behind the commanding Jedi's lightsaber.

Clones lining up and advancing into battle are done on purpose to take advantage of the Jedi's unique abilities.

Execution Arena, p. 86 wrote:Not surprisingly, they scatter en mass at the unexpected arrival of 200 lightsaber-wielding Jedi at the coliseum.

Number of Jedi participating in the battle of Geonosis.

Execution Arena, p. 87 wrote:Klatooinian Master Sta-Den Eekin's power to cloud the minds of vast crowds does not affect battle droids' programming.

Proof Jedi mind tricks can work on multiple people at once, although obviously only if they have an organic mind.

Republic Army, p. 88 wrote:The clones use imaging systems in their helmet visors to see through dense smoke on the battlefield, allowing an unbroken advance on the Trade Federation battle droids.

Clonetrooper helmets can pierce through atmospheric obscurants.

Republic Army, p. 88 wrote:Republic Troopers
On Geonosis, the Republic deploys two full battle armies, with Yoda and Mace Windu commanding one each and other veteran Jedi Knights in charge of eight corps of 36,864 troops each. All other divisions are led by specially trained clones: Commanders head regiments of 2304 men; clone captains lead companies of 144; lieutenants head platoons of 36 men, and sergeants command squads, each made up of nine clone troopers. Separate ranks of specialized clones operate gunships, drop ships, AT-TEs, and SPHA-Ts.
Trooper/Sergeant/Lieutenant/Captain/Commander - 192,000 deployed in battle
LAAT/I Gunship - 1600 deployed
LAAT/C (AT-TE Carrier) - 400 deployed
AT-TE - 2160 deployed
SPHA-T - 100 deployed
Assault Ship - 12 deployed

Something of a TO&E, though it still leaves much to be desired. Presumably four corps per battle army, sixteen regiments to a corps and sixteen companies to a regiment, but then only four platoons to a company and four squads to a platoon. If there isn't already battalion and division-like units that simply aren't mentioned here, they will probably develop them shortly after the battle, if only to make the units more manageable (and maintain the divisible-by-four pattern). Also obvious that the clone count is not including each unit's CO in the total count, never mind support units (which likely are droids, if they want to make sense). Assuming the sergeant is part of the nine-clone squad and ignoring any sort of command/support structure, each platoon is 37 strong, each company 149 men, each regiment 2385, and each corps 38161. However with eight corps of 38161 you have an actual total of 305,288, which is significantly more than the explicit count of 200,000 available at this time. Of course the stated figure of eight corps with 36,864 troopers each also exceeds the stated figure to the tune of 294,912. Obviously there is a typo somewhere which wasn't caught in the editing, but regardless of the total it makes the distiction of how many were actually deployed, which is what matters in the big picture.

Republic Army, p. 89 wrote:Gunships
...
Commandos are specially trained for high-risk covert work and wear a higher grade of armor with addtional weapons capacity.

Though they are part of the army, commandos aren't specified in the clone trooper count, whether they are part of the 192,000 or count as a separate force like the pilots and gunners.

Republic Army, p. 89 wrote:Deadly Juggernaut
Deployed in squads of four at the rear of the advancing AT-TEs, SPHA-Ts combine the devastating firepower of a permanent laser-cannon emplacement with the ability to literally walk into battle on powerful articulated legs.

Four-vehicle lances seem to be the base unit for Clone vehicles. Assuming it holds to what we see with the trooper units, that would be 16 to a platoon, 64 a company, and 1024 to a regiment. As it happens, it does directly match the deployed number of AT-TEs and SPHA-Ts, with 25 4-vehicle squads each.

Republic Army, p. 89 wrote:Assault Ships
...
Earlier, assault ships made preemptive strikes against Geonosian beak-wing facilities, leaving the fighters that remained unable to make headway against the Republic's orbital blockade.

The Republic fleet is larger than the 12 which landed on the planet, and explains why the Republic had air superiority during the battle.

Separatist Forces, p. 90 wrote:Separatist Hardware
Surprised by the Republic's assault, the Separatists mobilize all forces not already loaded onto their starships, supplementing droid contingents with battle droids direct from the factories. They have no airborne vehicles, although spider droids and hailfire droids carry ground-to-air weapons, which prove effective against Republic gunships. Techno Union starships and Trade Federation core ships carry no weapons, and rely on the defense of the droids. Droidekas were preferentially loaded into the escaping starships, and are mostly absent from battle.
Battle Droid - 1,000,000 deployed
Super Battle Droid - 100,000 deployed
Droideka - 3,000 deployed
Dwarf Spider Droid - 15,000 deployed
Sonic Cannon - 4 deployed (in arena)
Hailfire Droid - 4,100 deployed
Homing Spider Droid - 7,500 deployed
Techno Union Starship - 286 on battlefield (169 escape)
Commerce Guild Starship - 41 in battle (36 escape)
Trade Federation Core Ship - 60 on battlefield (46 escape)

The Separatist army on Geonosis. For those interested, the Techno Union escaped with 59% of their ships, the TF with 76% of theirs, and the Commerce Guild a whopping 87% of their fleet. The fact that a gunship can take out TU ship by itself but can't scratch TF core ships probably has something to do with it.

Battle of Geonosis, p. 92 wrote:Commerce Guilde starships launch more quickly than other Separatist craft.

That explains why so many escaped as mentioned above.

Battle of Geonosis, p. 93 wrote:[Hailfire droid] missiles are most effective at ranges of less than a kilometer, and follow deliberately swerving, evasive trajectories.

The looping missile flights aren't just SFX nonsense but deliberate, especially since (from the CW cartoon) even AT-TEs can shoot down missiles with their main cannons.. I would also infer that the short effective range is because they spend so much time (and fuel) dodging anti-missile systems rather than traveling a flat, straight trajectory.

Battle of Geonosis, p. 93 wrote:The SPHA-Ts can only be charged to a certain level; after these shots, they must be replaced with charged guns from the rear lines.

I can understand running out of batteries, but having to replace the entire gun seems like a rather tall order. Presumably the assault ships have special equipment designed to swap these out in a reasonable amount of time.

Battle of Geonosis, p. 93 wrote:Kenobi sees Dooku and his escort of beak-wings. The Geonosians are unable to deploy more of these fighters due to an aerial bombardment of their launch hives by assault ships commanded by Yoda, which took place simultaneously with the arena rescue; still others were neutralized by clone commando raids.

More on the preemptive strike by the assault ships, and more missions involving commandos; whether the commandos which launched these strikes are included in the 192,000 deployed or count separately is unknown, but since the hives aren't located on the battlefield map I would hazard they are in addition to that number.

Battle of Geonosis, p. 93 wrote:With powerful energy shields on their starships, neither side can overwhelm the other using their ship-mounted cannons; moreover, indiscriminate fire by Republic anti-starship weapons would endanger the droid facilities that it must capture to uncover the secrets of the Separatist conspiracy.

Reasons on why no WMDs were deployed.

So this book confirms that the Hyperspace Laser of Doom which can blow up multiple planets with a single shot is indeed the product of current SW technology and research, it's not some stupid "lost weapon of the Ancients that was found" that some people might try to play it off as. No, if the SW galaxy wants to build a Hyperspace Gun that blows up multiple planets in a single go, they can do it. Because they already did.

Also confirmed Starkiller Base was mobile. So not only can they convert a planet into a gun, they can make it move as well.

What tier does that put them up to in VS Debates?

Oh they will always come up with some excuse - "It's all the kyber crystals, they can't actually produce that much energy", "There's only one Starkiller Base-like planet in the whole galaxy, they can't find more" - but nevertheless for the smart people yeah, it still is amazing the FO managed to do something arguably more impressive than the first DS with even less resources.

Anyways Ep. III, lots of interesting information actually but not much relevant to the debates.

Coruscant Battle, p. 98 wrote:Space Armadas
Both the Separatist Alliance and the Republic have invested heavily in new ships for their space navies, though the former keeps most of its fleet in the Outer Rim. During the battle of Coruscant, the Republic fields a far greater number of heavy craft, such as the Venator-class Star Destroyers. The Separatists counter by deploying tens of thousands of vulture droids to supplement their adversary's crewed starfighters.

A sense of the scale of the battle in orbit of Coruscant.

Jedi Temple Complex, p. 101 wrote:Sith containment cells, constructed centuries ago to hold hostile Force-users and their creatures and servants.

"Centuries ago" implies they were still running into, if not Sith per se, then "dark siders" in sufficient numbers that they build a jail specifically for them.

Jedi Temple Complex, p. 101 wrote:Holographic training area used by Padawans and Knights, in which realistic battle scenarios can be generated for practice in lightsaber skills.

I wonder if their holodecks ever malfunction and try to kill them with bad Dr. Moriarty impersonators.

Palpatine's Office, p. 102 wrote:Chancellor's Chair of Office with ultra-dense lanthanide alloy armor. Equipped with a defensive shield, it also provides direct, secure communication with Palaptine's aides and includes a Red Guard summoner.

Palpatine's Office, p. 102 wrote:Duranium reinforced, blast-hardened ferrocrete exterior walls.

Palpatine's Office, p. 102 wrote:Lanthanide allow sheath isolating suite from rest of building. Provides added protection against fire and impact.

Palpatine's Office, p. 103 wrote:Ceiling areas reinforced with lanathanide alloy sheathing for fire and impact protection and electronic security.

Palpatine's Office, p. 103 wrote:Security "airlock." Visitors scanned here for concealed weapons, bugging devices, and other prohibited items.

Palpatine's Office, p. 103 wrote:Emergency escape turbolift.

Palpatine's Office, p. 103 wrote:Alderaanian relaxa-bed fitted with message circuits and sleep-inducing harmonics. Enables Chancellor to experience the equivalent of a full night's rest in a few hours.

Level of security for the Chancellor; also can get in a really nice power nap when he wants.

Kashyyyk, p. 109 wrote:Secrets of the Guild
Besides a strategic location, Kashyyyk offers another valuable prize of war: the lagoons and fjords of the tropical Wawaatt Archipelago shelter the settlements of the ancient Claatuvac Guild, Wookie cartographers and navigators legendary for their knowledge of secret hyperspace routes crisscrossing the galaxy. The Guild's chief settlement at Kachirho houses its data, which could help the Separatists reverse their declining fortunes in the Clone Wars.

The importance of knowing hyperspace routes in SW warfare.

Battlefronts, p. 113 wrote:Separatist Alliance landing ships deliver thousands of droid troops and vehicles to invasion points across Kashyyyk.

The battle for Kashyyyk was not just the little beach skirmish at which Yoda was involved.

Mustafar, p. 115 wrote:Hellhole Planet
...
Yet, at 800 C (1500 F), Mustafar's lave is "cooler" than normal lava due to unusual mineral allotropes that are molten at lower levels.

An odd thing, though it is no less impressive that Obi-Wan and Anakin were able to survive being so close to such hot material without being harmed (well, until the very end...)

Mustafar Duel, p. 119 wrote:Concealed weapons emplacement, with heavy defensive blaster-batteries. There is a ring of these emplacements around the mining complex.

The Separatist hiding place was not just counting on concealment to protect the leadership, though obviously did no good when Vader just walked right in.

Medcenter, p. 122 wrote:Medcenter Fortress
As a key treatment center for badly injured Republic personnel, the Grand Republic Medical Facility makes a tempting target for Separatist saboteurs. To guard against attacks, it is heavily armed and armored, with powerful defensive shields, its own independent power supply, and robust systems for life support. The facility is capable of withstanding a protracted siege - something that appeals to Sidious in remaking the tower for his own nefarious uses.

Medcenter, p. 123 wrote:VLD2261 long-range heavy blaster defense battery, controlled from Red Guard security station on level below.

Medcenter, p. 123 wrote:Exterior durasteel shell conceals building armor of lanthanide/duralium alloy.

Medcenter, p. 123 wrote:KDD2055 short-range turbolaser rapid-fire defense battery.

Defensive measures for the Medcenter.

Medcenter, p. 122 wrote:Operating suites. Entire floor exists in a bio-sterilization field to prevent infenction during surgical procedures.

"Bio-sterilization field," presumably good enough against your standard bacteria and viruses.

Medcenter, p. 123 wrote:But late in the conflict, the facility gains a new, secret purpose, with its benevolent face concealing a dark heart. The lower levels of the medcenter become Sidious' Sith retreat, a focus for meditation and a repository for his collection of secret Sith artifacts and lore.

Medcenter, p. 123 wrote:Dark-side reservoir, emanating from the many Sith crystals and artifacts. Darth Vader's recovery will be aided by an "immersion" in this wellspring of evil.

Medcenter, p. 122 wrote:Making of a Monster
...
Vader then benefits from the power of the Sith artifacts concealed on the lower levels, which are isolated from the main facility by bio-key access and Red Guards.

Medcenter, p. 123 wrote:Massive Sith-imbued kyber crystal, slivers from which will be used in Sith lightsabers.

An interesting revelation, that simple close proximity to items associated with the Sith/dark side can affect people. It makes sense why the Jedi would try to conceal/lock away such things. However Anakin had already "turned" at this point though, so no idea how strong an affect they could have on someone who wasn't already wearing red contacts and murdering children.

Balrog wrote: Official information on SB, including confirmation that it can move, but the diameter really sticks out; this thing is smaller than Pluto's moon. It raises the question of how exactly something so small is able to support a seemingly natural ecosystem and exhibit a normal gravity The First Order doing it artificially seems unlikely: artificial gravity they can handle , but why waste time on landscaping? The other option is that the planet is dense enough to exhibit the characteristics of a larger planet, which I don't want to guess at the sort of physics that might be defying.

So at 160km and 660km respectively, starkiller should be 4.125 Death Stars across for a diameter. This is obviously not the case given the image above even being very generous with the possible angles of the holograms. I also see no reason why this image would not have been to scale. Its brought up because someone says its just like another Death Star and the briefer wants to show just how much bigger Starkiller is.

So they fucked it up. The movies are the highest cannon, this book can go fuck itself. Its too late to backtrack the entire damn movie.

Actually Starkiller looks just about right according to my very rough comparison


I believe its only the second Death Star that is 160km wide, the first Death Star was 120kms
660/120=5.5

In the picture above it takes about 5 and 1/4 Death Stars to span Starkiller base, and I think that's mostly just due to my shoddy work, it should probably span it 5 and a half times, which results in Starkiller base being exactly the stated size.

As for whether the visuals are right for a planet being 660km in diameter, I can't speak for the ground scenes, but this shot does not seem to indicate an earth sized planet at all. This is when the X-wings are dogfighting with the ties about the the cannon, which is a good distance away from the Oscillator. If Starkiller were Earth sized or close, I doubt the Thermal Oscillator would be visible from that distance.


Judging from various shots, and the schematic they pull up, the oscillator is also possible to see from orbit. In the ground scenes where we see it, its big, but its not so big that it should be visible from orbit if this were an Earth sized planet.
I felt the the movie's visuals were attempting to depict a planet of about the size stated, though it is strange that it seems to have normal gravity and life, but that's Star Wars for you.

Is it the first Death Star? It would seem rather silly to refer back to that when the more recent and most famous one would be the more relevant reference.

Given that the second Death Star was never completed, it makes a fair bit of sense.

You mean that "fully operational" not completed Death Star...

Fully armed, not fully operational.

Both:

"Now witness the firepower of this fully ARMED and OPERATIONAL battle station!"

'Operational' only necessarily means that the lights come on when you turn the switch though. AFAIK, the Death Star II never really moved apart from possibly turning around its axes. I wouldn't be surprised to hear that only the main reactor, gunnery, life support and station-keeping thrusters were working. Conceivably the main engines weren't functional, or the station in its incomplete state was too fragile to take heavy acceleration but could remain in orbit without too much stress. It certainly never went much of anywhere in ROTJ, anyway.

Indeed . 'Fully armed' and '(degree unspecified) operational'. And given about half the thing wasn't there yet I seriously doubt it could have been fully operational. Plus the 'fully armed' may well have only referred to the superlaser because I don't recall it ever firing anything else.

Elheru Aran wrote:'Operational' only necessarily means that the lights come on when you turn the switch though.

This might be true except he said he said "fully," and given it stared one shoting capital ships soon after its obviously not as limited as you suggest.

AFAIK, the Death Star II never really moved apart from possibly turning around its axes. I wouldn't be surprised to hear that only the main reactor, gunnery, life support and station-keeping thrusters were working. Conceivably the main engines weren't functional, or the station in its incomplete state was too fragile to take heavy acceleration but could remain in orbit without too much stress. It certainly never went much of anywhere in ROTJ, anyway.

It also had no reason to move for almost all of the movie either. It should be remembered that the heart of the ruse was to appear non-operational but actually be operational, so for all we know everything we see that appears incomplete was intentionally made to look that way or otherwise was not essential to the operation of the DS. There has always been speculation that much of these things were void space anyway.

There are of course good reasons to speculate that it was not operational of course. You brought up why it didn't just hyperspace or otherwise drive away when it was in danger. I would additionally bring up the fact that the DS didn't bring up its own shields the second the projected one from Endor went down. Both of those can be explained by the chaos of the situation, but most importantly that's not what the Emperor flat out told us. It should also be remembered that the Emperor had no reason to lie to Luke when he told him it was fully operational. In fact, the truth of it was what gave the quip its sting.

Batman wrote:Indeed . 'Fully armed' and '(degree unspecified) operational'. And given about half the thing wasn't there yet I seriously doubt it could have been fully operational. Plus the 'fully armed' may well have only referred to the superlaser because I don't recall it ever firing anything else.

1.) Its ridiculous to interpret the comment that way. If I said "I am 100% ready and willing!" would you interpret that as me being 100% ready but somewhat less willing? Of course not.

2.) If the DSII doesn't have more than a single super laser emplacement, and I hope you are not suggesting that, using the qualifier "fully" would make sense as you say. However, if you maintain it is a battlestation with all sorts of weaponry then fully has to mean more than just the super laser or saying so makes no sense. As it is I do believe we see surface fire from the DS as the fighters enter it. I also remember seeing TL batteries guarding the shuttle landing bays we see but I might be misremembering that and I can't confirm it at the moment (I know this is the case for the DSI).

All this is irrelevant of course. Unless someone can find a detail of the projected DS from the hologram that distinguishes it from the other it could be either one. No, it being projected as complete does not disqualify it from being the DSII. If I want to compare the size of the never completed USS United States to the USS Nimitz I would not use an image of its barely laid down keel to do so.

Well, for a fully armed and operational battle station, it certainly doubled-down on the exhaust-port flaw.... No longer did the rebels need to start a chain reaction, they could just fly right in and shoot the reactor right in the face!

It was always interesting to me that they stuck with the narrow straight shaft right to the reactor from the surface instead of flying into one of the far larger void areas. I assume it was an effects limitation/dramatic decision.

The turbolaser batteries guarding the shuttle bays never fire onscreen IIRC. If they do, it's in the scant second or so that you see Luke's Imperial shuttle escaping.

And the Emperor has every reason to lie to Luke-- he's trying to cut him down, weaken him emotionally, make him vulnerable to the Dark Side. The Dark Side doesn't require being truthful except when it's convenient. It wouldn't be the first time someone's broadly assigned a 'completed' value to a half-done project because it's still achieving the job they designed it for.

The fact of the matter is that onscreen evidence does not indicate that the Death Star II was a complete vessel, capable of travel and existing independently in space. It only indicates that it has life support, gravity, firing controls, and station-keeping (and perhaps not even that if it was in a high enough orbit). It does not indicate that it has powered engines or even that its surface guns were operational (though there could well be scenes of them firing when fighters pass by, I honestly haven't watched the movie in some time).

Regarding the 'narrow shaft right to the reactor'-- I always figured it was because that was an access shaft to maintain the reactor, and that in the rest of the exposed void areas the reactor was just a shielded bulb with no orifices. They used the shaft because it hadn't been covered up by armour yet (IIRC we only see them fly across a bit of surface and then enter the shaft, which has clear construction around it).

Accidental TRIPLE post? Seriously? Please delete.

Accidental double post.

Petroklos wrote:

Batman wrote:Indeed . 'Fully armed' and '(degree unspecified) operational'. And given about half the thing wasn't there yet I seriously doubt it could have been fully operational. Plus the 'fully armed' may well have only referred to the superlaser because I don't recall it ever firing anything else.

1.) Its ridiculous to interpret the comment that way. If I said "I am 100% ready and willing!" would you interpret that as me being 100% ready but somewhat less willing? Of course not.

Irrelevant. 'Willing' is a matter of 'intent'. 'Operational' is a matter of 'capability'. I would pretty damned doubt you being 100% ready when half your body is missing.

2.) If the DSII doesn't have more than a single super laser emplacement, and I hope you are not suggesting that,

I can't recall any source mentioning a SECOND superlaser emplacement.

using the qualifier "fully" would make sense as you say. However, if you maintain it is a battlestation with all sorts of weaponry then fully has to mean more than just the super laser or saying so makes no sense.

Why? Because you think so? The only weapon that mattered was the superlaser.

All this is irrelevant of course. Unless someone can find a detail of the projected DS from the hologram that distinguishes it from the other it could be either one. No, it being projected as complete does not disqualify it from being the DSII. If I want to compare the size of the never completed USS United States to the USS Nimitz I would not use an image of its barely laid down keel to do so.

It's irrelevant anyway as the DS2 can't possibly have been that small thanks to the RotJ visuals, no matter what that book says.

Batman wrote:

Petroklos wrote:using the qualifier "fully" would make sense as you say. However, if you maintain it is a battlestation with all sorts of weaponry then fully has to mean more than just the super laser or saying so makes no sense.

Why? Because you think so? The only weapon that mattered was the superlaser.

This. The Alliance fleet wanted to destroy the Death Star before the superlaser was firing; Ackbar nearly called off the attack once ships started blowing up. They knew that without the superlaser, they had a decent chance of getting close enough to send small craft into the Death Star to destroy it (provided the shield was gone of course). The superlaser was what changed the balance of power there even without the Imperial fleet nearby.

Batman wrote: Irrelevant. 'Willing' is a matter of 'intent'. 'Operational' is a matter of 'capability'. I would pretty damned doubt you being 100% ready when half your body is missing.

Your distinction only resides in your imagination. Will can be measured in degrees, but you can replace it with whatever you want. The point stands that "fully" applies to armed and operational equally. You can rage over it all you want, Palpantine said it and movies trump everything else.

As for your doubts, that was exactly the point. The Rebels were supposed to think the station was not 100%, or even 1% ready (as if the DSs other weapons couldn't have made mince meat out of the Rebel fleet all by themselves) so they would think they had a chance, and since part of the plan was to lure the Rebels there where they would get a first had visual it was supposed to LOOK that way. Congratulations, you just fell victim to the same trap the Rebels did, only you did so with 100% knowledge and hindsight at your disposal.

I can't recall any source mentioning a SECOND superlaser emplacement.

Did I say anything about another superlaser emplacement? You do understand there are other weapons in SWs besides super lasers right? Weapons that it would be perfectly logical for a battlestation to have and indeed many sources tell us it does have.

Why? Because you think so? The only weapon that mattered was the superlaser.

Why, because you said so? If its the only weapon that matters then why did the Empire bother with all those turbolaser mounts (20,000 of them by some legends accounts), gobs of fighters and other craft, and millions of troops? It pretty obvious they, the in universe experts on such things, envisioned more out of the DSs other than using the superlaser.

The DS did have other weapons. This is again a fact that you will have to deal with. The DS did have other systems besides weapons as well that are all covered by "operational." If the DS only had a superlaser, and that was ALL Palpantine was talking about, why did he not say that? Why did he say "battlestation" in its entirety?

I'm fairly certain that they're referring specifically to the first Death Star, since they say "the Death Star" which I've always taken to imply the first one.

Anyways, getting the OT ones out of the way in one fell swoop. Besides the DSII shrinkage, as was noted in the other thread they've removed explicit numbers from these ones.

Mos Eisley, p. 133 wrote:Triple-hulled TIE Lander can deploy a stormtrooper company.

We don't get a clear view of it, but it appears to be the same type of TIE-like shuttle Captain Needa used in ESB.

The Cantina, p. 135 wrote:Cantina's communications jammer masquerades as vaporator.

Even a frickin' backwater bar has a comms jammer.

The Death Star, p. 136 wrote:Ancient Origins
The Rebel Alliance sees the Death Star as a technological terror emblematic of the Empire's new order, but the battle station actually has an ancient pedigree: long ago, the Sith had created similar superweapons powered by massive kyber crystals. In the Empire's secret weapons labs, scientists tasked with refining the Geonosis prototype choose a new approach: vast arrays of smaller kyber crystals focus and amplify eight laser beams, combining them into a single massive beam that can destroy a planet. But turning that concept into reality proves fiendishly complex - if the firing-chamber arrays are not precisely aligned, crystals will burn out and overload, sending dangerous levels of waste heat back into the Death Star's main reactor.

Undoubtedly some will latch on to the "amplify" part of this background to suggest the Empire can't build reactors with planet-busting output. I would note within this same passage that the use of eight focusing kyber crytals was decided after the Geonosians had built the prototype, which meant even the Geonosians believed they could build the thing without the help of kyber crystals.

The Death Star, p. 137 wrote:The Falcon docks in hanger bay 327 on the Death Star's equatorial trench. The detention cells in this sector are located 400 meters (1,300 feet) below the hanger.

In case people want to do a scenario about rescuing the princess.

The Great Temple, p. 138 wrote:Power Supply
The functioning of the base is reliant on a power-generating station located two kilometers (1.2 miles) away. Pieced together from turbines and a main reactor stolen from a wrecked Imperial Star Destroyer, the station supplies sufficient power for a protective shield, ion cannons, and other defenses that could hold off an assault from a single large battleship.

The Great Temple, p. 138 wrote:Anti-personnel cannons.

Defenses of the Temple on Yavin.

The Great Temple, p. 139 wrote:Turbolift to insulated, deep-crust survival bunkers for last refuge in event of bombardment of planet surface by Imperial Star Destroyers.

You don't need "deep-crust" bunkers to survive an explosion unless it's going to be a big explosion.

The Great Temple, p. 139 wrote:Original stone floors reinforced with ferrocrete.

Same as previous quotes on the subject.

Battle of Hoth, p. 142 wrote:Rebel Shield System
By dumping absorbed energy directly into the planet interior, the rebels' planet-based shield withstands bombardments that would overwhelm ship shields. Only slow-moving ground-contact vehicles, like Imperial walkers, can traverse its outer surface. With projector modules distributed throughout rebel territory, Veers targets the central power generator.

Confirmation regarding ground vehicles passing through the shield.

Battle of Hoth, p. 143 wrote:Walker Dropship
The Executor carries Incom Y-85 Titan dropships, which can accommodate four AT-ATs as well as four AT-STs. Only the largest Imperial warships have hangers massive enough to accommodate Titans: smaller ships, such as Star Destroyers, deploy single-walker barges. General Veers decides against using the Titans at Hoth, wary that rebel starfighters will swarm them before Blizzard Force can land outside the shield perimeter. Instead, he calls on the task force's more agile Gozanti-class cruisers. Escorted by TIEs, these freighters carry two AT-ATs at a time, clasping the walker with their powerful ventral docking clamps.

Personally I think it a bit odd that the best way to deploy AT-ATs would be strapped to the underside of a starship rather than carried safely within the hold of a dedicated carrier, but who am I to question General Veers?

Battle of Hoth, p. 143 wrote:Veers orders the commanders of the remaining AT-ATs and the pilots of the All-Terrain scouts to overrun the trenches and capture as many rebels as possible.

Reason why they weren't just slaughtering Rebels as they ran.

Echo Base, p. 144 wrote:The command center is constructed over the course of two standard years, under brutal conditions.

Why Echo Base could possibly take so long to build, I can't honestly say. My best guess is their efforts to keep the base a secret is what contributed to its delay, but given how quickly more impressive engineering feats are accomplished this time period seems out of place.

Echo Base, p. 144 wrote:Emergency Care
The Rebel Alliance is careful to provide timely medical support for its valued troops. On Hoth, a well-equipped medical center provides first-rate response and triage for Echo Base's 7,500 combat personnel. Overseen by a medical command officer, the staff of 350 physicians and surgeons, augmented by some 120 specialized droids, remains on call to deal with any emergencies that might arise.

Personnel strength on Hoth. Also interested to hear from anyone with experience how the ratio of medical to combat personnel pans out vis-a-vie real life.

Echo Base, p. 147 wrote:Transports and X-wing escorts move toward South Ridge evacuation launch site; 17 of the fleet of 30 are destroyed by Imperial blockade.

Loss rate of the Rebel fleet from Hoth.

Echo Base, p. 147 wrote:Ion Blasts
Synchronized with a battle-theater shield generator, the Kuat Drive Yard v-150 ion cannon fires massive, charged-plasma shots powerful enough to penetrate the ray shielding of an Imperial Star Destroyer in orbit, neutralizing its weapons, shields, and engines - or, at the very least, disrupting control systems and ion drives. Drawbacks include a lengthy activation and targeting period, a low discharge rate of one volley per six seconds, and slow rotation as it aims.
...
Gap of 1km (0.0 miles)
...
Droid access tunnels to base main reactors; stolen parts from a derelict Praetor-class Star Battlecruiser.

Info on the ion cannon and its power supply.

Echo Base, p. 147 wrote:Medium Transport
Little more than armored shells, the 90 meter (300 feet)-long Gallofree Yards transports are perfectly suited to the needs of the Rebel Alliance...

Length of the GR-75 transports.

Jabba's Palace, p. 158 wrote:Dissipation grid works with deflector shields to absorb and dispose of energy from enemy fire.

Defenses built into the walls of Jabba's palace.

Battle of Endor, p. 162 wrote:The Aftermath of Victory
The explosion of the second Death Star sends a rain of meteoric debris toward the Forest Moon, but the rebel fleet is able to deploy shields and tractor beams to deflect debris away from the strike team on the surface.

Same answer as has been provided before. Given the new information about ISDs dragging rebel ships onto Jakku with their tractor beams, perhaps they're actually exploring some of the potential implications of this excuse.

Death Star II, p. 166 wrote:As had been confirmed during development of the original Death Star, construction advanced most efficiently when the working surface allowed sufficient space for the greatest possible number of self-replicating construction droids. This was Moff Jerjerrod's justification for filling the station's interior in a piecemeal manner.

Von Neumann machines!

Death Star II, p. 167 wrote:In place of the two meter (6.5 feet)-wide thermal exhaust port targeted by the rebels at Yavin 4, the second Death Star possesses millions of millimeter (0.04 inch)-sized heat-dispersion tubes extending over the entire surface, each equipped with emergency baffle mechanisms to block excess-power surges.

Fix for the original defect.

Emperor's Lair, p. 168 wrote:Transparisteel viewports equipped with magnification scanners that provide close-up views of deep-space battles.

Similar thing was mentioned in RotS novelization regarding seeing ships relatively close to each other.

Executor Command Tower, p. 170 wrote:Raised on a thick stalk above the Executor's dorsal technoscape, the 285 meter (935 feet)-wide command tower is practically a ship in its own right.

Size of the command tower.

Executor Command Tower, p. 170 wrote:Fatal Flaw
With its gleaming command walkway and two meter (seven feet)-tall transparisteel viewports, the Executor's bridge provides unobstructed views of quarries and kills. The ship's shielding - driven by the power of its massive reactor - makes such displays of Imperial arrogance possible. Yet the vessel is not impregnable. At Endor, pounded mercilessly by the capital ships of the Rebel Alliance flotilla, the ship's shields fails. At that moment, the rebels are able to strafe the command tower - and with the Executor's navigation suite in ruins and defensive guns losing coordination, a careening A-wing destroys the bridge.

Executor Command Tower, p. 170 wrote:Local-area shield projector vanes.
-
Hyprewave transceiver coils.
-
Long-range scanners feed targeting information to the ship's weapons systems.

Same answer to the same old argument, with the "shield dome"'s actual functions pointed out.

Executor Command Tower, p. 171 wrote:Inertial compensators protect crew and contents from effects of acceleration.

Existence of inertial compensators reaffirmed.

Executor Command Tower, p. 171 wrote:A Strategic Debate
Many in the Imperial military derided the Death Star project as "Tarkin's Folly," a self-indulgent engineering experiment that wasted credits, raw materials, and personnel. Emperor Palpatine, they argued, should have used those resources to create more giant dreadnoughts in the same class as the mighty Executor. Both rebels and Imperials refer to these command ships (as well as other classes of massive capital ships) as Super Star Destroyers. Nearly 12 times the size of a standard Star Destroyer, the Executor bristles with thousands of turbolasers and ion cannons, and carries starfigher wings and ground troops sufficient for a planetary invasion. More than a dozen ships of the class are thought to exist, with the roster including the Annihilator, the Ravager, and the Arbitrator. But the true number remains a subject of debate within Alliance Intelligence, as analysts struggle to make sense of Imperial propaganda and penetrate the black budgets designed to hide the extent of Palpatine's secret weapons programs.

Info on the Executor, including the old Golden Mean bone they threw out during the minimalist debates.