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So, after seeing a recent post by the ever illustrious and prolific artist Ansel Hsiao (aka fractalspongue) concerning a scout/EW ship he created for a contest - it got me thinking. What examples do we have for electronic warfare in Star Wars? In todays, IRL, world Electronic Warfare is becoming more and more prevalent and vital to military success. What techniques or methods have we seen in Star Wars? What methods *could* they use in Star Wars, but do not appear to make use of? Does the advanced technological level of Star Wars simply make what we consider to be electronic warfare "useless"?

I'm interesting to hear everyone's thoughts.

Personally, I think that there are not enough visible uses of electronic warfare for Star Wars technology. They seem to have quite a bit of technology that would enable them to do some neat tricks (such as when Thrawn used a freighter to sneak a squadron of TIEs and Spacetroopers into Bilbringi shipyards), but nothing that could be considered SOP.

I think the only explicitly use of EW in the films that I recall was the Rebel fleet being rammed so they couldn't detect the DS2's shield in RotJ.

It's often assume to be happening all the time by fans though.

I believe the Death star had heavy sensor jammers in order to protect the exhaust port.

Crazedwraith wrote:I think the only explicitly use of EW in the films that I recall was the Rebel fleet being rammed so they couldn't detect the DS2's shield in RotJ.

It's often assume to be happening all the time by fans though.

It does. In RotJ, as the Rebel fleet approaches the Death Star, Lando and Nien Numb have a conversation to that effect, ending with Lando asking how the Imperials could be jamming them if they didn't know they were coming.

It raises an interesting point, because if the scene was playing out in real time, the Rebels had been out of hyperspace for less than a minute, yet Lando thought the presence of sensor jamming odd. This implies that it would take time, maybe several minutes, for jamming capability to be put into effect.

I admit this seemed odd to me when I first thought about it. I always thought of a jammer as something you just switched on; meaning that the Imperials should have been able to jam the Rebel fleet almost immediately, unless they were all running around like headless chickens. But it need not necessarily be that way. There are any number of reasons why it might take a little while, even if only a few minutes, to get some serious jamming underway. Even brute-force jamming - essentially overwhelming the recievers with 'white noise' to drown out the return signal - might need to be configured specifically to the system it is trying to jam in order to be effective; taking into account differing hardware and software. What might work on a Corellian Corvette might not work on a Mon Calamari Star Cruiser, or vice versa.

The process in question would involve the Imperials scanning the incoming fleet, running the data through their computers, and then configuring their jammers accordingly. This could easily take a few minutes, whereas at Endor they knew the Rebels were coming and could get this done beforehand. On the other hand, it implies that the Imperials had extensive intelligence on what they would be up against; at the very least what ship types and the technology they possess. This may seem a stretch, but Darth Vader mentioned reports of the Rebel fleet massing near Sullust, which could imply that the Imperials had at least some notion of what ships to keep an eye out for.

Or he just meant that they would have detected the shield at once upon exiting hyperspace unless jamming was already running before they ever got there. We don't need to add extra layers of complexity to it; all the observation requires is that there was no notable change in sensor function after they left hyperspace.

Rogue 9 wrote:Or he just meant that they would have detected the shield at once upon exiting hyperspace unless jamming was already running before they ever got there. We don't need to add extra layers of complexity to it; all the observation requires is that there was no notable change in sensor function after they left hyperspace.

That is what I assume it is. It also fits that this is how the Rebel fleet noticed the shield dropping, because there was a change in output that could be observed.

The other notable instance of sensor jamming was in the attack against the first Death Star. While explicit jamming was only mentioned in the novelization, the fact that Luke notes that his scope is useless as he and other pilots are ordered to pick up their visual scanning in the presence of incoming TIEs, indicates that the Death Star was jamming them at that point. One thing that is interesting in this case is that TIE fighters seem to have no problem finding their counterparts, meaning that they either have directional jamming or are vectored in by ground controllers.

There is also two mentions of communications jamming. Once when the Millenium Falcon is chasing a TIE fighter in A New Hope, and once in Return of the Jedi when Luke and Leia are chasing Scout Troopers on speeder bikes. Though we see absolutely no use of this in combat, which likely means it would affect both sides equally.

As to the general use, it would make sense that they see less use than in reality to some extent. To start with, the line of sight limitation of Star Wars weapons systems makes electronic warfare somewhat less useful, as indirect targeting is largely impossible. Deflector shields also both take up some of the slack and require the power that those would need. Running jammers is likely a lower priority than shields or weapons most of the time. Why run jammers when you can run stronger shields instead?

An additional factor is the high speed of hyperdrive, which can allow some of the sorts of deception tactics that often require electronic warfare in reality. Instead of jamming the enemy's radar to allow a group to suddenly appear, they can jump out of hyperspace on top of the target while they are engaged with other forces. Notably Anakin does this in Clone Wars after Obi-Wan engages the enemy as a diversion.

As for the intelligence gathering side of electronic warfare, that seems to exist to some largely unspecified degree. It is likely that the probe droid used in TESB detected emissions from Hoth, given that it landed practically on top of the Rebel Base. When he captures her, Vader mentions that he traced transmissions that were beamed to Leia's ship(those containing the Death Star plans). We also see that Darth Maul was able to trace Queen Amidala to Tatooine based on her ship receiving transmissions from Naboo. In both of those cases it is interesting that they trace the receiver rather than the sender. Most comms in Star Wars are likely thus somewhat tight beam transmissions.

Jamming is one thing, but what else? What about the ability to mask the signature of a ship? Would it be possible to fool a Rebel's sensors that a friendly CR90 corvette is approaching, but once it gets to within eye-ball range, it's revealed to be an Imperial Star Destroyer? Or using such a mask to trick an Imperial ship that the rebel cruiser is not a rebel cruiser, but a minor transport?

We know that transponders are heavily used in Star Wars. It's mentioned dozens of times in the Hand of Judgement series, such as Allegiance, that the ISB had access to ships that were capable of broadcasting different transponder IDs. Only after a security force ran that ID through a database could they possibly know whether or not it was valid. Are there other ideas to using that transponder for other ideas?

On one hand, hyperdrive can substitute for this to some degree at the strategic scale. Something elaborate like Operation Mincemeat before D-day can be done with real forces, as they launch a series of false attacks before the real one.

One problem with the use of such tactics is that they almost always appear to be a one off event. There are plenty of those, tricks like what Wraith and Blue Squadrons pull off against a star destroyer, using pulsating shields to mimic the Millennium Falcon and divert a star destroyer away from friendly fighters. But it is something we only see once, rather than something that appears often.

That is the underlying issue with realistic and especially clever tactics in a setting like Star Wars. Things only occur if there are notable characters to do them.

Adam Reynolds wrote:On one hand, hyperdrive can substitute for this to some degree at the strategic scale. Something elaborate like Operation Mincemeat before D-day can be done with real forces, as they launch a series of false attacks before the real one.

I suspect you're thinking of Fortitude, not Mincemeat. Mincemeat was part of the deception plan for Sicily, and didn't involve simulated forces. I also doubt hyperdrive could enable that sort of deception operation, as the whole point of FUSAG and the British Fourth Army was that their positions meant that they couldn't redeploy to either invade or reinforce Normandy without the Germans knowing.

Abacus wrote:Jamming is one thing, but what else? What about the ability to mask the signature of a ship? Would it be possible to fool a Rebel's sensors that a friendly CR90 corvette is approaching, but once it gets to within eye-ball range, it's revealed to be an Imperial Star Destroyer? Or using such a mask to trick an Imperial ship that the rebel cruiser is not a rebel cruiser, but a minor transport?

We know that transponders are heavily used in Star Wars. It's mentioned dozens of times in the Hand of Judgement series, such as Allegiance, that the ISB had access to ships that were capable of broadcasting different transponder IDs. Only after a security force ran that ID through a database could they possibly know whether or not it was valid. Are there other ideas to using that transponder for other ideas?

The Ghost from Rebels frequently masks itself as other ships or even disappears from scanners (hence the name).

Well we know cloaking devices still exist (various cloaks from TCW, 'No ship that small has a cloaking device' from ESB) so there's that.

eMeM wrote:

Abacus wrote:Jamming is one thing, but what else? What about the ability to mask the signature of a ship? Would it be possible to fool a Rebel's sensors that a friendly CR90 corvette is approaching, but once it gets to within eye-ball range, it's revealed to be an Imperial Star Destroyer? Or using such a mask to trick an Imperial ship that the rebel cruiser is not a rebel cruiser, but a minor transport?

We know that transponders are heavily used in Star Wars. It's mentioned dozens of times in the Hand of Judgement series, such as Allegiance, that the ISB had access to ships that were capable of broadcasting different transponder IDs. Only after a security force ran that ID through a database could they possibly know whether or not it was valid. Are there other ideas to using that transponder for other ideas?

The Ghost from Rebels frequently masks itself as other ships or even disappears from scanners (hence the name).

Though they've stopped doing that since season one. I doubt that's because they've lost the ability, but rather they've made the Empire so suspicious and become so high-profile that they'll stop and search any VCX-100 they see in the Lothal sector regardless.

Captain Seafort wrote:

Adam Reynolds wrote:On one hand, hyperdrive can substitute for this to some degree at the strategic scale. Something elaborate like Operation Mincemeat before D-day can be done with real forces, as they launch a series of false attacks before the real one.

I suspect you're thinking of Fortitude, not Mincemeat. Mincemeat was part of the deception plan for Sicily, and didn't involve simulated forces. I also doubt hyperdrive could enable that sort of deception operation, as the whole point of FUSAG and the British Fourth Army was that their positions meant that they couldn't redeploy to either invade or reinforce Normandy without the Germans knowing.

True, that was a misstatement. My point was also more that hyperspace travel allows forces to appear anywhere without warning. This was shown quite dramatically in ROTS over Coruscant, in which the CIS fleet was able to jump in system before the shields could be raised, as well as over Endor, in which the Rebel fleet thought they could appear and hit the Death Star before the Empire could react. While it was obviously a trap, in which the Emperor knew they were coming all along, the fact that the Rebel fleet thought it would work indicates it is a somewhat common tactic.

Rogue 9 wrote:Though they've stopped doing that since season one. I doubt that's because they've lost the ability, but rather they've made the Empire so suspicious and become so high-profile that they'll stop and search any VCX-100 they see in the Lothal sector regardless.

One wonders why they keep using the Ghost so extensively for what should be covert operations.

Adam Reynolds wrote:

Rogue 9 wrote:Though they've stopped doing that since season one. I doubt that's because they've lost the ability, but rather they've made the Empire so suspicious and become so high-profile that they'll stop and search any VCX-100 they see in the Lothal sector regardless.

One wonders why they keep using the Ghost so extensively for what should be covert operations.

They don't. The Ghost is currently used mainly as a strike craft; they used the Phantom for the Reclam Station operation and they've repeatedly taken public transport when they're really trying to sneak around.

The most significant thing about jamming in SW as per RTJ is that the targets of it don't know its happening (they only realized it in the movie because of the specific context). Jamming is an active attack, generally by either overwhelming a sensor with power or a particular signal you know the equipment is vulnerable too and thus you should realize its happening to you easily. You don't use jamming when you want someone to not realize there is anything there at all (ie the Ghost from that shitty cartoon). Jamming announces your pretense via a targets own EM detectors or by its effects on the system the jammer is targeting.

Patroklos wrote:The most significant thing about jamming in SW as per RTJ is that the targets of it don't know its happening (they only realized it in the movie because of the specific context). Jamming is an active attack, generally by either overwhelming a sensor with power or a particular signal you know the equipment is vulnerable too and thus you should realize its happening to you easily. You don't use jamming when you want someone to not realize there is anything there at all (ie the Ghost from that shitty cartoon). Jamming announces your pretense via a targets own EM detectors or by its effects on the system the jammer is targeting.

Lando's copilot could certainly tell that jamming was taking place. It is likely that X-wing sensors are significantly weaker than those of the Millennium Falcon, which allowed Lando to more easily determine that it was definitely jamming rather than that the shields are down.

Adam Reynolds wrote: Lando's copilot could certainly tell that jamming was taking place. It is likely that X-wing sensors are significantly weaker than those of the Millennium Falcon, which allowed Lando to more easily determine that it was definitely jamming rather than that the shields are down.

Maybe. The copilot tells Lando that there is no reading on the shield, not that they are being jammed. Its because Lando knew there was supposed to be a shield that he could infer there was jamming. If it was just a random system they were jumping into where Lando didn't know a shield was there one way or the other given his reaction they shouldn't have been able to infer jamming.

If the copilot really did know he was being jammed by instrumentation, and instead or reporting that just told his commander that he couldn't read the shield like he did, Lando should have slapped him across the face for incompetence. What if Lando hadn't asked the follow on and was just like " well, awesome, no shield!"?

Actually, that is probably what happened. We don't know what the copilot actually said but since Lando asked back "we should have gotten a reading up OR down" its possible he copilot told him he couldn't get a reading at all as if his instruments were not working. Which again means he is an incompetent idiot who could have gotten everyone smashed to pieces against a wall of energy.

You know that could be a good reason for why the Imperials conventional fleet didn't perform so well. If the DS was effectively jamming everything including things like firecontrols and it was doing it indiscriminately the capital ship knife fight makes a lot more sense. Yeah they should have been able to target visually but thats whatever.

When Lando says "we should get a reading" doesn't the copilot say something that Lando follows with "but how could they be jamming us if..if they didn't know we were coming." From context I think it's reasonable to assume the copilot said "we're being jammed."

I suspect there's imprecise language involved, with a variety of different means of "spoofing" sensors being rolled up under the heading of "jamming."

Eternal_Freedom wrote:When Lando says "we should get a reading" doesn't the copilot say something that Lando follows with "but how could they be jamming us if..if they didn't know we were coming." From context I think it's reasonable to assume the copilot said "we're being jammed."

Nien Nunb: Imitubichu migama miu-tim

Lando: We've got to be able to get some kind of a reading on that shield, up
or down.

Nien Nunb: A-mutegeto uuhp

Lando: Well, how could they be jamming us if they don't know... if we're coming?

So the first Nien's line is about not getting any reading and in the second one he says something like "Maybe we are being jammed".

But I wouldn't say it's Nien's incompetence, note that none of the massive capital ships with supposedly much better sensors noticed that the shield is up nor that they are being jammed.

eMeM wrote:

Eternal_Freedom wrote:When Lando says "we should get a reading" doesn't the copilot say something that Lando follows with "but how could they be jamming us if..if they didn't know we were coming." From context I think it's reasonable to assume the copilot said "we're being jammed."

Nien Nunb: Imitubichu migama miu-tim

Lando: We've got to be able to get some kind of a reading on that shield, up
or down.

Nien Nunb: A-mutegeto uuhp

Lando: Well, how could they be jamming us if they don't know... if we're coming?

So the first Nien's line is about not getting any reading and in the second one he says something like "Maybe we are being jammed".

But I wouldn't say it's Nien's incompetence, note that none of the massive capital ships with supposedly much better sensors noticed that the shield is up nor that they are being jammed.

To add to this. When Lando tells the fighters to break off Wedge says he's not getting any reading, presumably from his x-wings sensors and Wedge asks Lando if he's sure about breaking off the run. One of the differences may be that Han, being the clever scoundrel he is, would most likely have the best sensors he could find possibly through Hutt contacts.

Lord Pounder wrote:

eMeM wrote:

Eternal_Freedom wrote:When Lando says "we should get a reading" doesn't the copilot say something that Lando follows with "but how could they be jamming us if..if they didn't know we were coming." From context I think it's reasonable to assume the copilot said "we're being jammed."

Nien Nunb: Imitubichu migama miu-tim

Lando: We've got to be able to get some kind of a reading on that shield, up
or down.

Nien Nunb: A-mutegeto uuhp

Lando: Well, how could they be jamming us if they don't know... if we're coming?

So the first Nien's line is about not getting any reading and in the second one he says something like "Maybe we are being jammed".

But I wouldn't say it's Nien's incompetence, note that none of the massive capital ships with supposedly much better sensors noticed that the shield is up nor that they are being jammed.

To add to this. When Lando tells the fighters to break off Wedge says he's not getting any reading, presumably from his x-wings sensors and Wedge asks Lando if he's sure about breaking off the run. One of the differences may be that Han, being the clever scoundrel he is, would most likely have the best sensors he could find possibly through Hutt contacts.

there's also that Lando having been involved in smuggling would be more vary of things that seemed "out of place" since your typical smuggler probably isn't as capable of fighting off imperials if ambushed not mention that a lot of rebel soldiers are ex-imperials who have defected so imperial doctrine would have strong influence on rebel alliance doctrine.

Then there's the thing that Imperial military seems to promote more based on loyality and connections (with few exceptions) so you get commanders that are less then compotent or inventive.

If I remember correctly, the jamming during the Endor space battle came from the "communications ship" Star Destroyer, at least according to the novelisation. Also, it seemed to me that DS2 was apparently able to jam the Rebel fighters within its superstructure, again according to my recollection of the novelisation.

That could be as simple as there being miles of durasteel between them and the outside.

I recalled participating in a discussion here regarding EW warfare (and other kinds of jamming, even aside from electromagnetic waves) in Star Wars.. notably, the "distortion fields" that restricted starfighter maneuverability over the first Death Star.
After searching for it, I was mildly shocked at how long ago the thread was. Anyway, here it is:
http://bbs.stardestroyer.net/viewtopic. ... 4&t=117058

EM "jamming" is clearly present in Star Wars, as our current discussion has shown, but there is very strong evidence that they also perform gravitic jamming. Likewise, their sensor systems quite possibly have detection methods aside from EM.