StarDestroyer.Net BBS

Alright here it is:
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=miVRaoR_8xQ[/youtube]

The first half of this review (roughly 50 minutes) revolves around the Disney acquisition, and refuting the "wave of prequel apologism" of the recent years (ring theory and "clickbait articles", in particular).

The second half is about TFA, first discussing its status as a "remake", then diving into actual critique/analysis from 1:12-1:26, and finally rounding it off with a discussion of "diversity" and lack of sexuality.





I've not seen TFA yet, but I watched this review in order to keep up with what RLM say about the previous 6 movies - however, I skipped the 1:12-1:26 section as it appeared to be the meat of the TFA discussion, and I wanted to avoid spoilers at least to some extent.


So here's my question(s):
a) Are there still any mentions, or discussion of 1-3 in this section?

b) Are 4-6 discussed in any way aside from being the template for TFA?
Is 6 in particular singled out as a bit of a black sheep among those three?

c) For that matter, are there mentions of or comparisons to other (non-SW) movies in this section?



So if anyone's got the time for that, or remembers from watching earlier, that'd be kind of cool.

A) Yes but not often as it used to be

B) Yes but not as often as it used to be, and no not that I have seen.

C) Not in this section that is the general Sci Fi section

In the 1:12:00-1:26:00 section of Plinkett's TFA review - not this section of this messsage board ; )

Plinkett is both dumb as shit and so irritating of voice that he makes me want to poke my own eardrums out, so I for one am not checking for you, and further advise that it doesn't matter because he's dumb as shit.

I agree with the dumb as shite part, but for all I know he may have said something smart in the 1:12:00-1:26:00 section - hence curious ; - )

Here's a stupid question, why not go watch TFA and then go watch the terrible nitpicky review that I'm sure ST haters will blow their loads all over and point to as to why they hate the Sequels rather then coming up with a coherent argument themselves because thinking is hard?

The movie ain't expensive to see, you can find the Blu-ray for like 20 and probably find it much cheaper from a RedBox or online video service.

Cause I don't feel like it right now? *shrug*

lGrand Anhoop wrote:I agree with the dumb as shite part, but for all I know he may have said something smart in the 1:12:00-1:26:00 section - hence curious ; - )

Did he say anything smart in the parts of his review that you did watch ?

If not, why do you expect one small segment to be any different ?

Well, if it was something dumb, I'd also like to know what it was ; - )

However, a good reason to expect something if not smart, then at least more substantial, is that this "small segment" appears to be where the meaty "analysis" is in - the rest is all build-up, summaries, or frivolous responses to clickbait articles etc.

Alright the issue's been resolved: someone posted a transcript on reddit, and relying on my text skipping skills that I've acquired over months of wasting time on forums, I've skipped through it.


So essentially it's not actually a review of TFA as I had assumed - rather, he suggests alternate pitches for the plot that wouldn't have been a "remake"; making the movie about the backstory of TFA, the Republic developing the superweapon and then the FO stealing it and shifting the balance of power etc.



Then there's a section criticizing the comedy, and this is where the dumb comes in:

Lastly, with the exception of C-3PO saying some comments here and there, I don’t recall too much comedy in the original trilogy - especially slapstick.
I said the original trilogy, not that [Prequel] crap!
Generally the Death Star was a scary place; it’s kind of tense when Obi-Wan is sneaking around. In this film it would seem that in order for the audience to actually like the characters, we needed to not take everything too seriously.

By no means am I saying that this was "Star Wars: The Farce Awakens”, but come on!
Rey [while Finn fumbles with tools]: “No. No! The one I’m pointing to! No. No! No!!”

Kylo Ren’s temper tantrums were within character, but went a little too far in a few places [Ren slicing up the room while guards turn and walk away].

Finn might be the worst in terms of not taking things seriously:

Now I've seen RLM fans try and justify this by saying "SW had more natural humor and here it was too forced" - but that's not what RLM are saying in this excerpt, so as it stands it's bullshite.

lGrand Anhoop wrote:So essentially it's not actually a review of TFA as I had assumed - rather, he suggests alternate pitches for the plot that wouldn't have been a "remake"; making the movie about the backstory of TFA, the Republic developing the superweapon and then the FO stealing it and shifting the balance of power etc.

...did he bother explaining why the New Republic, founded by the people who blew up the previous two superweapons, would be developing one of their own?

RogueIce wrote:

lGrand Anhoop wrote:So essentially it's not actually a review of TFA as I had assumed - rather, he suggests alternate pitches for the plot that wouldn't have been a "remake"; making the movie about the backstory of TFA, the Republic developing the superweapon and then the FO stealing it and shifting the balance of power etc.

...did he bother explaining why the New Republic, founded by the people who blew up the previous two superweapons, would be developing one of their own?

Probably not, since he's dumb as shit. But to be strenuously fair, an early draft of the script did involve a Republic superweapon.

RogueIce wrote:...did he bother explaining why the New Republic, founded by the people who blew up the previous two superweapons, would be developing one of their own?

To echo and expand on what Rogue 9 said, the leaked script that was very close to the finished movie the NR did have a super weapon. The Resistance had the "Sledgehammer" to fight against the FO "Catapult" which was presumably the pre-production name for the Starkiller base.

So its not out of the question that they might develop one of their own. There is nothing inherently evil about tech like the Death Star except how you use it. The NR would more then likely only use their version of space nukes defensively.

Of course thats beside the point. RLM just wanted the NR to have superweapons because it'd be cool, because it would fit his vision of what the Sequels just like all the Prequel haters whined about how the Prequels should fit their vision. And as Rogue 9 put it, he is dumb as shit.

Joun_Lord wrote:

RogueIce wrote:...did he bother explaining why the New Republic, founded by the people who blew up the previous two superweapons, would be developing one of their own?

[...]

Of course thats beside the point. RLM just wanted the NR to have superweapons because it'd be cool, because it would fit his vision of what the Sequels just like all the Prequel haters whined about how the Prequels should fit their vision. And as Rogue 9 put it, he is dumb as shit.

Okay here's the relevant quote:

RLM wrote: Everyone in the new Republic is sitting pretty - maybe a nice role reversal. The New Republic builds the super weapon as the ultimate defense against any attack by the fledgling First Order, [...]

But then Leia says, “This weapon makes me nervous, and it’s against our values and morals. Let’s dismantle it!”

But then, a rebel group from the First Order steals the weapon – maybe blows up the Republic’s home planet, or does some kinda major damage.

This forces Han Solo out of his private life as a smuggler, you know, cause he wants to see if Leia is okay.
And then Leia has to flee from her cushy position of power and is forced back into the Rebel underground movement, for which she is unprepared.
The act of seeing this big attack by The First Order is what causes Finn to go AWOL.

This event causes a major shift in the Force; waves of the Dark Side are awoken! This wakes up the Gollum, or whatever his name was, which messes up Luke’s training and brings out the Dark Side in Kylo and his new followers.
There is now an imbalance of the Force! We discovered that Ren was really just looking for power, and now he sees that it’s more obtainable via Snoke and The First Order.

Maybe then we coulda seen Han and Luke on screen together before Luke ran away into hiding.

Maybe Han could've said, “You can’t run away from your problems, Luke.”
Then Luke could say, “Isn’t that what you did, Han?”
Han would half-smile and say, “Take care of yourself, kid.”
And Luke would say, “You too.”

You know, like a nice little callback to the scene in Empire?
Luke: “You too.”

We’d then later in the film find out this is the last time they see each other.

Oh well, I guess. Han’s dead now and Luke was just pissing off a cliff. Who cares?
But yea, instead we got a repeat of a story we’ve seen before:

The point wasn't "it sucked because it didn't match my vision", it was "they missed the opportunity to do something interesting like this, in favor of doing a remake" - i.e. an "actual sequel" based on the general backstory provided in TFA.

lGrand Anhoop wrote:The point wasn't "it sucked because it didn't match my vision", it was "they missed the opportunity to do something interesting like this, in favor of doing a remake" - i.e. an "actual sequel" based on the general backstory provided in TFA.

Thats still what it sounded like, it sucked because they didn't do what he wanted. Its not interesting because they didn't have the NR pumping out super weapons like they were led by a man in a bathrobe, they didn't do whatever bullshit with exploding planets that made Fluke's new Jedi order go kaput, because they didn't give them the backstory of Hand Solo's and Leia's intimate moments with Luke, because they didn't do callbacks and role reversals in a movie already lamented as too similar to what came before. Essentially complaining that the filmmakers dared to do their own thing rather then doing whatever some assholes on the internet wanted, daring to stick to their own vision. The same shit as the Prequels but a different decade.

The complaints about a remake are the same sort of complaints some Prequel haters had about TPM, that it was a shitty remake of ANH. And again, the same shit as the Prequels.

And this ain't me defending the Prequels or Sequels. I enjoyed the Prequels even though I'll never watch TPM again (personal reasons) and despite the fact TFA WAS a ANH remake I still enjoyed it. But they are flawed movies. But but they are certainly better then whatever some knobjobs on the internet could have made, far better then a designed by fan wank fest that we'd have gotten if fans were allowed to make the movies.

I know this because I'm a fan. I had my own headcanon of what the Prequels and Sequels should be. I thought they missed an opportunity to do something interesting when they didn't use my idea of lightsaber armed stormtroopers slaughtering the Jedi and Clones and Mand'ohs in the Prequels and having the actual Empire show up and be the good guys in the Sequels. While this shit would be interesting to me as part of my masturbatory fantasies of what I believe Star Wars should be, they aren't actually good ideas. Neither is Plinketts. Neither is the ideas of any of the other fatty fat nerds jerking their gerkins over their "interesting" ideas.

Alright you're not reading the posts you respond to, and you don't appear to be reasonable at all.

Joun_Lord wrote:
Of course thats beside the point. RLM just wanted the NR to have superweapons because it'd be cool, because it would fit his vision of what the Sequels just like all the Prequel haters whined about how the Prequels should fit their vision. And as Rogue 9 put it, he is dumb as shit.

As was pointed out in the release thread, the NR was the only entity in the post ROTJ timeline that could in any way have the resources to produce a super weapon of the likes of SK base. And no, I don't give a shit what the companion literature says just like 99% of the movie's audience that won't read any of that.

If you have to have a super weapon, which you don't and the movie shouldn't, the NR building it is the only way it makes sense in the world the movie shows us.

lGrand Anhoop wrote:Alright you're not reading the posts you respond to, and you don't appear to be reasonable at all.

Explain how exactly I'm not reading your post? I read it and replied. Sure I didn't give the reply you might have wanted and that might be "unreasonable" of me but I still read the bullshit.

Patroklos wrote:As was pointed out in the release thread, the NR was the only entity in the post ROTJ timeline that could in any way have the resources to produce a super weapon of the likes of SK base. And no, I don't give a shit what the companion literature says just like 99% of the movie's audience that won't read any of that.

If you have to have a super weapon, which you don't and the movie shouldn't, the NR building it is the only way it makes sense in the world the movie shows us.

The resources to build the Starkiller base, which was a converted planet, shouldn't be any where near as much as the Death Star. The first Death Star was built in secret over 20 years and the 2nd built in secret in like 3 they clearly couldn't have been having massive amounts of resource shipments or the Rebellion should have been able to track their locations that way.

On this very site the brainbug of the Death Star bankrupting the Empire was shot down, something that should have been apparent anyway for the fact they were both done in secret without anyone noticing. The First Order with 30 years and probably the backing of the Empire proper could and did build Starkiller base and did so without stealing it from the NR.

Besides them stealing the Starkiller base from the NR would have not worked with the story presented. The NR was supposed to be mostly non-militarized, only a token fleet because of how peaceful the galaxy was. They would not have been spending the space dollars building superweapons that would cost far more then fleets of ships. If they knew the FO had a super weapon they would have been far more pro-active in going after them rather then sitting on their asses to the point Leia had to create the Rebellion MK2 to deal with the Empire MK2.

Joun_Lord wrote: The resources to build the Starkiller base, which was a converted planet, shouldn't be any where near as much as the Death Star. The first Death Star was built in secret over 20 years and the 2nd built in secret in like 3 they clearly couldn't have been having massive amounts of resource shipments or the Rebellion should have been able to track their locations that way.

Actually, just the surface features alone, assuming a very minimal depth of the infrastructure, rival a Death Star. Hell, just the barrel of the damn thing can accommodate a significant portion of a Death Star. If it goes to the core it could literally hold two or three loaded grapeshot style in that thing.



You need to remember that while the SK should "only" be four+ DSs across, volume scales much faster. As a point of objective visual fact, SK is probably actually several dozen of times bigger in regards to artificial non planetary construction than a Death Star. At the lower end.

On this very site the brainbug of the Death Star bankrupting the Empire was shot down, something that should have been apparent anyway for the fact they were both done in secret without anyone noticing. The First Order with 30 years and probably the backing of the Empire proper could and did build Starkiller base and did so without stealing it from the NR.

Not bankrupt /= Not an extremely significant construction project only a galactic scale civilization can pull off.

Super carriers haven't bankrupted the US and each one is only .11% of annual revenues, yet even by our super power standards are considered extremely expensive and remain something only a very few countries can pull off. Generally not rump states inhabiting the backwaters of the planet.

The fact is that whatever percentage of the overall Imperial budget the Death Stars were there are many sources that state it was far from non trivial. Even the new cannon supplementary sources about the First Order (and the New Republic) point to states only a shadow of the Empire at its height when the DSII was built in the time frame you are talking. Like sub single percentage points in territory and armament and industry (thank you very much nu-minimalism). A non trivial Death Star budget line item of the Empire is to the First Order what a non-trivial Nimitz aircraft carrier budget line item of the United States is to Fiji. x1000.

Besides them stealing the Starkiller base from the NR would have not worked with the story presented. The NR was supposed to be mostly non-militarized, only a token fleet because of how peaceful the galaxy was. They would not have been spending the space dollars building superweapons that would cost far more then fleets of ships. If they knew the FO had a super weapon they would have been far more pro-active in going after them rather then sitting on their asses to the point Leia had to create the Rebellion MK2 to deal with the Empire MK2.

Of course not. If they went this route the yawn inducing existing "story as presented" wouldn't exist. Hopefully if they went that route they would craft a world that supported it, unlike the actual story we have and its hilariously stupid Starkiller Base and basically everything else we see in the movie that makes no sense and nobody cares about because the story tellers don't care about it either.

Patroklos wrote:Actually, just the surface features alone, assuming a very minimal depth of the infrastructure, rival a Death Star. Hell, just the barrel of the damn thing can accommodate a significant portion of a Death Star. If it goes to the core it could literally hold two or three loaded grapeshot style in that thing.

You need to remember that while the SK should "only" be four+ DSs across, volume scales much faster. As a point of objective visual fact, SK is probably actually several dozen of times bigger in regards to artificial non planetary construction than a Death Star. At the lower end.

Seems like mostly its just surface installations other then the barrel and the trenches and the barrel should mostly be empty. Hell the material take from the midline trench could probably have been used to construct everything. And they could use mostly traditional building methods considering the construction is on a planet, is the planet.

The Death Star is a completely artificial construct built in space. Not only do they have to get the resources but they have to ship them there from a planet or whatever. Then they have to build the giant disco ball which should be harder to do considering its being built in a harsh vacuum. Can't exactly just send in dudes with hammers and pick-axes to build it despite the old EU saying slave Wookiees built the thing because making god knows how many space suits for strong hard to control creatures to build something in an environment where their strength means jack is just smart.

Super carriers haven't bankrupted the US and each one is only .11% of annual revenues, yet even by our super power standards are considered extremely expensive and remain something only a very few countries can pull off. Generally not rump states inhabiting the backwaters of the planet.

The fact is that whatever percentage of the overall Imperial budget the Death Stars were there are many sources that state it was far from non trivial. Even the new cannon supplementary sources about the First Order (and the New Republic) point to states only a shadow of the Empire at its height when the DSII was built in the time frame you are talking. Like sub single percentage points in territory and armament and industry (thank you very much nu-minimalism). A non trivial Death Star budget line item of the Empire is to the First Order what a non-trivial Nimitz aircraft carrier budget line item of the United States is to Fiji. x1000.

Whats left of the Empire is supposed to be a rump state, the First Order is something else. They probably aren't really a state but just like a poltical group, they don't have the trappings of a normal country with like citizens and shit, they have some territory they control and people within that territory they force to work for them. The best real world equivalent is probably like current Taliban. Like the Taliban they make money colluding with criminal gangs and cartels as Wookieepedia says the FO was. Also according to Wookieepedia, so take a it with a grain of salt depending on your view of being a movie purist or not, the FO had control or partnerships of alot of corporations and even got money from corrupt elements in the NR government. The FO was flush with cash and the only place it needed to put it was into their military.

The FO building Starkiller base would be like Fiji secretly building a Nimitz if they could put all their budget toward it and had their budget boosted by cash from the Sinoloa cartel, from Boeing and General Dynamics, and from the US and they had 30 years to do it. It would be hard but possible.

Of course not. If they went this route the yawn inducing existing "story as presented" wouldn't exist. Hopefully if they went that route they would craft a world that supported it, unlike the actual story we have and its hilariously stupid Starkiller Base and basically everything else we see in the movie that makes no sense and nobody cares about because the story tellers don't care about it either.

Changing the story they wanted to make, yawn inducing or not, to fit what is at most a minor technical annoyance seems really foolish. Especially foolish when that minor annoyance is only something we fatty nerds on the internet would give a shit about while 99% of the viewing audience won't.

That said I do agree Starkiller base was stupid. Not stupid because it was built by the space Argentinian Nazis but because it was built at all. Because of its stupid multi projectile firing method that only seems to exist to one up the Death Star. Its really fucking stupid technobabble justifying it like how its power by dark energy quintessence contained in a thermal oscillator that is transformed into phantom energy to be delivered through sub hyperspace where it ignites the planets core into a pocket nova that creates a disruption in the space time continuum that makes it instantly visible even thousands of lightyears away and if there was a quantum in there I'd swear fucking Trek writers designed that shit. What the fucks wrong with saying its a big gun that fires bigass laser beams? Look ma, no technobabble involved and thats why I could never write for Star Trek and apparently Star Wars now.

But all that while massively annoying for me is still stupid shit that doesn't effect the plot and won't bother most of the people seeing A New Hope Part II Electric Boogaloo.

Joun_Lord wrote:

lGrand Anhoop wrote:Alright you're not reading the posts you respond to, and you don't appear to be reasonable at all.

Explain how exactly I'm not reading your post? I read it and replied. Sure I didn't give the reply you might have wanted and that might be "unreasonable" of me but I still read the bullshit.

"Sure whatever, but what it sounded like to me was what they actually meant":

Joun_Lord wrote:

lGrand Anhoop wrote:The point wasn't "it sucked because it didn't match my vision", it was "they missed the opportunity to do something interesting like this, in favor of doing a remake" - i.e. an "actual sequel" based on the general backstory provided in TFA.

Thats still what it sounded like, it sucked because they didn't do what he wanted. Its not interesting because they didn't have the NR pumping out super weapons like they were led by a man in a bathrobe, they didn't do whatever bullshit with exploding planets that made Fluke's new Jedi order go kaput,

[...]

of the other fatty fat nerds jerking their gerkins over their "interesting" ideas.

RLM didn't slate TFA - they gave it a positive review, with the reservations that it missed opportunities by being a remake; opportunities offered by the movie's very own backstory, in fact.

The "NR built starkiller" idea was supposed to add variation to the "empire builds nuke again" "rehash".



So then you come with the "lol they hated the movie because it didn't do their stupid theory lolololol and they just wanted republic weapon lasers pewpew lmaolol", and after I corrected you on that by presenting you with their actual position, you're STILL insisting on your made up scenario.

That's why you're unreasonable.

lGrand Anhoop wrote: RLM didn't slate TFA - they gave it a positive review, with the reservations that it missed opportunities by being a remake; opportunities offered by the movie's very own backstory, in fact.

The "NR built starkiller" idea was supposed to add variation to the "empire builds nuke again" "rehash".

While I agree that this was a problem, the solution was not to have the New Republic build it, it was to not have it in the film at all.

While one can complain about the technical side of the problem, the worse problem is that Starkiller Base has no buildup and thus an extremely weak payoff in comparison to the Death Star. The main plot of A New Hope was about the Death Star, with R2 going to Tatooine and running into Luke as a result of this. The main plot of TFA was about the hunt for Luke, with BB-8 going to Jakku and running into Rey as a result of this. The finale of the film should have reflected this fact, instead of having R2 solve that problem with a Dues Ex Machina ending so that you can have a repeat Death Star.

Had the finale instead been about raiding a massive First Order shipyard so that the Resistance can steal their half of the map, it would have worked far better. Instead of the fact that the base would attack the Resistance HQ, you could instead have Leia's command ship be caught in a tractor beam so that Hux can get Leia's half of the map, while the base's turbolasers wear down her shields. After she is caught, Han decides to blow up the main tractor beam controls so that she can escape. Literally every other plot point from TFA would work in this context. Instead of having the First Order blow up the Republic capital, you could instead have the Republic decide to do nothing, and instead of having political scenes, you could immediately cut to Leia stating that she will take care of the problem herself and forget the politics. It would allow the same overt dig at the Old Republic and a more subtle dig at the prequels.

Hm, well that sounds like the kind of detailed analysis/critique that probably should've been in this review - can't appraise it myself for stated reasons though etc.


Also, another question:
In Episode II, Part 6, at 4:20 what does he say there? Is it really "the wrong role of suck"? As in "He can give a really powerful performance if put in the right role; the wrong role of SUCK!"?

And if I heard correctly, what does that mean exactly?