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I'm curious to see if there are any hardcore Warsie detractors against R1 yet. Has anyone come across any on any sites?

I keep expecting complaints of grimdarkness given some of what I read around here prior to its release.

Dear god, even with You Tube, 3 days is a pretty quick turn around for massive content to be produced about it.

Galvatron wrote:I keep expecting complaints of grimdarkness given some of what I read around here prior to its release.

Since when has SW fans ever complained about grimdark being a bad thing?

I've seen it brought up in this very forum more than once.

Meh, I think the absolute killing of all good guys in R1 was not the best way, but that in no way equals backlash in my opinion.

Not all of them died. Red and Gold leaders obviously survived, as did Captain Antilles. I can't wait to see what happens to them in the next movie.

ray245 wrote:

Galvatron wrote:I keep expecting complaints of grimdarkness given some of what I read around here prior to its release.

Since when has SW fans ever complained about grimdark being a bad thing?

RedLetterMedia's Rogue One video is pretty negative, IMO. I think they are crazy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kc2kFk5M9x4

Galvatron wrote:I keep expecting complaints of grimdarkness given some of what I read around here prior to its release.

As one of the ones who at least initially said this, I would say that it wasn't a problem at all. It fit the story and the characters perfectly that they all gave their lives away for a noble cause, in the hope that their sacrifices could be worth something.

Besides when people complain about grimdark in movies like the recent DC comics based movies, it's generally because that grimdark is there for itself, while in Rogue One anything you could all grimdark serves the story first and foremost, there doesn't seem to anything that's dark for the sake of being dark.

Adam Reynolds wrote:

Galvatron wrote:I keep expecting complaints of grimdarkness given some of what I read around here prior to its release.

As one of the ones who at least initially said this, I would say that it wasn't a problem at all. It fit the story and the characters perfectly that they all gave their lives away for a noble cause, in the hope that their sacrifices could be worth something.

But wasn't that a foregone conclusion? We knew going in that they would accomplish their mission so I don't see why anyone assumed that they would die for sake of OMFG TEH GRIMDARKNESS!

Noble713 wrote:

ray245 wrote:

Galvatron wrote:I keep expecting complaints of grimdarkness given some of what I read around here prior to its release.

Since when has SW fans ever complained about grimdark being a bad thing?

RedLetterMedia's Rogue One video is pretty negative, IMO. I think they are crazy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kc2kFk5M9x4

This honeslty sounds like they didn't even watch the movie, just the trailers and read a few spoilers.
How could anyone not understand Saw's death?


And lol, charismatic Daisy Ridley, and people who declare their love for TFA saying that this movie is to derivative or feels like a fanfilm

eMeM wrote:

Noble713 wrote:

ray245 wrote:
Since when has SW fans ever complained about grimdark being a bad thing?

RedLetterMedia's Rogue One video is pretty negative, IMO. I think they are crazy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kc2kFk5M9x4

This honeslty sounds like they didn't even watch the movie, just the trailers and read a few spoilers.
How could anyone not understand Saw's death?


And lol, charismatic Daisy Ridley, and people who declare their love for TFA saying that this movie is to derivative or feels like a fanfilm

I think it's pretty much an open secret that RedLetterMedia just says what ever he/they thinks would give them the most views rather then their actual opinions and because of that as a critic he has little value.

As you wish...
Spoiler

Rogue One is the antithesis of grimdark. A grimdark movie would leave us questioning if the sacrifice mattered and make it ambiguous whether or not the Rebels were really any better than the Empire. Instead, we know that it mattered (and the movie's not exactly subtle on the hope theme, anyway) and yes, while the Rebels are far from perfect, they're still far better than the Empire.

Galvatron wrote: But wasn't that a foregone conclusion? We knew going in that they would accomplish their mission so I don't see why anyone assumed that they would die for sake of OMFG TEH GRIMDARKNESS!

There were some that indicated that they wanted to see Vader to outright slaughter the heroes in five seconds, that is more what I was responding to. The way it played out was excellent.

Galvatron wrote:I keep expecting complaints of grimdarkness given some of what I read around here prior to its release.

I loath gratuitous grimdark, but of course it largely depends on how its done. Dark with a high main cast bodycount is not the route I would likely go for a Star Wars film, but I'm withholding judgement until I get around to seeing it.

Rogue One is dark for a (storyline) purpose, at least to me there was nothing gratutious about the darker aspects.Spoiler

Just to clarify the spoiler tag has been placed on the thread so you do not need to use the Spoiler

Battlehymn Republic wrote:I'm curious to see if there are any hardcore Warsie detractors against R1 yet. Has anyone come across any on any sites?

I'm rather enjoying the lack of backlash against Jyn. She's certainly a less contentious character than Rey.

Kojiro wrote:

Battlehymn Republic wrote:I'm curious to see if there are any hardcore Warsie detractors against R1 yet. Has anyone come across any on any sites?

I'm rather enjoying the lack of backlash against Jyn. She's certainly a less contentious character than Rey.

In particular, I wonder if the fact that Cassian saves her from Krennic on the comm tower was a correction against what happens in TFA, in which the only one who ever saves Rey is herself.

In fairness, the only reason she needs saving there is because she's lost her gun. But she only lost he gun because she drew it while walking out to the end of the platform... where there was absolutely no one. I suspect that editing has some blame there.

I suspect what the OP is getting at though is the 'Rey is a Mary Sue' arguments that sprung up (and the corresponding 'nerds can't handle female leads' complaints). Logically if nerd culture has a problem with Rey solely on the basis she's a woman, they should have the same problem with Jyn. If however people accept Jyn but still dislike Rey, another explanation needs to be sought beyond simple misogyny.

I think its a combination of things.

Some people certainly don't like Rey because she's a woman, or at least because they feel that all the major new characters being non-white males (except for Kylo, the villain) is political correctness/affirmative action, and they object to that.

But I can see at least a couple of legitimate reasons why someone would not like Rey. Note that I do not personally agree with those reasons- I like Rey a lot. But their are a couple major issues with the character's execution.

1. While I maintain that her level of success isn't that far outside the norm for Hollywood action heroes, or even for the Star Wars franchise specifically, some of the execution seems particularly contrived- particularly that God damn vision scene, which was a very contrived plot-convenience in my opinion.

2. She doesn't have a great deal of depth yet. This is something that can be fixed by subsequent films, fortunately.

I also think some people probably resent how she beat Kylo because it doesn't fit their expectations of what Kylo should have been. They wanted an unstoppable "bad ass" a la Darth Vader. When in fact Kylo is a deconstruction of such a character.

The Romulan Republic wrote:Some people certainly don't like Rey because she's a woman, or at least because they feel that all the major new characters being non-white males (except for Kylo, the villain) is political correctness/affirmative action, and they object to that.

Well that's two very different things. The word 'misogyny' only applies to women but if you Google 'Star Wars misogyny' you'll get more than a few hits. So there's something to untangle there rather than rolling up racism and sexism into one ball (which is not me denying they don't come together sometimes). And R1 is going to get some of the same for the 'no white male heroes' thing but whatever, there's plenty of white heroes out there. But to be consistent, we should see some criticisms of Jyn that can be attributed to her being a woman.

But I can see at least a couple of legitimate reasons why someone would not like Rey. Note that I do not personally agree with those reasons- I like Rey a lot. But their are a couple major issues with the character's execution.

But she became this polarising issue- you either liked her or you were a misogynist in many circles. Because she's just like Luke, except with female bits and you like Luke right? At least that's what I heard.

1. While I maintain that her level of success isn't that far outside the norm for Hollywood action heroes, or even for the Star Wars franchise specifically, some of the execution seems particularly contrived- particularly that God damn vision scene, which was a very contrived plot-convenience in my opinion.

It's not the level of success, and this is kinda in keeping with your second point, it's that the reason for her success leans very, very heavily on 'the will of the Force'. Part of storytelling is making the audience forget that everything is predetermined, that characters really are struggling with choices, that something really is at stake. Rey sorta managed that for me the first time, but repeated viewings have shown to me that she actually hurts the film in that aspect. Without defined depth or justification she becomes a sort of foil to every dilemma the heroes face. Even her one 'mistake' unleashes a bunch of monsters that saves Han and Chewie while affording her another chance to save Finn.

2. She doesn't have a great deal of depth yet. This is something that can be fixed by subsequent films, fortunately.

We'll have to wait. As it is I don't much like her. Perhaps that will change. I certainly hope so because I really enjoy liking movies I spend time and money on.

I also think some people probably resent how she beat Kylo because it doesn't fit their expectations of what Kylo should have been. They wanted an unstoppable "bad ass" a la Darth Vader. When in fact Kylo is a deconstruction of such a character.

I think there's a few things wrong with her beating Kylo First, there should be a great number of Jedi who could beat Rey back in the day who would get their ass handed to them by Vader. That skill gap, between Vader and Rey, between utter badass super force user and utter novice, should be a large gap. Even if Rey narrows the gap with some natural talent/power, it should still be pretty big. In fact between master and novice should be almost the entire spectrum and it's reasonable to assume Kylo falls somewhere on that spectrum, since he is a) a Skywalker (a family strong with the Force) and b) has actual training in both saber combat AND the force. But wherever Rey falls on the spectrum- untrained- it's above Kylo by a decent margin. Dedicated training from a Jedi Master can only possibly increase that margin. Let me restate, she's already demonstrated superior mental powers, superior TK powers and superior dueling and she found out about the Force literally yesterday. Ren on the other hand has been studying for years. That's not just an anti-Vader, that's a complete chump. The next time they meet there's no reason to believe Rey will do anything but mop the floor with him.