StarDestroyer.Net BBS

http://fractalsponge.net/gallery/Assertor/index.html. The Assertor was designed by fractalsponge to be a better imperial successor to the Executor, made by a successor state. Given the First Order has a penchant for bigger ships, and is an imperial successor, it seems like it would fit in the movie perfectly.

Realistically I think it's a bit blocky for what one would want onscreen where the general profile counts for more then fine detail. Some kind of battleship though, sure, I'd be surprised if the next movie lacks more space battle.

I love Ansel's work and if anything got into the new movies I'd be stoked for him.

Sea Skimmer wrote:Realistically I think it's a bit blocky for what one would want onscreen where the general profile counts for more then fine detail. Some kind of battleship though, sure, I'd be surprised if the next movie lacks more space battle.

Too many engines too, IMO. And too many cannons... it looks like those fan warship designs where you've got Super Iowas with cannons everywhere.

I think his other battleships looked better.

Sea Skimmer wrote:Realistically I think it's a bit blocky for what one would want onscreen where the general profile counts for more then fine detail. Some kind of battleship though, sure, I'd be surprised if the next movie lacks more space battle.

On my wish list for future Star Wars films is to see a proper dreadnought vs. dreadnought battle on the big screen.

We just had them reinvent the Rebellion for no logical reason because the imaginations of the people in charge of this thing can't puncture the narratives bubbles of the past they are trapped in. Not only that, they also intentionally destroyed the only possible major fleet owning entity with zero fanfare in a throwaway scene not one character on screen cared about except for the guy who did it, who even then only cared about it for 30 seconds of screen time, and then never mentions it again. They went out of there way to make sure that we know that the ENTIRE fleet, was there to be destroyed. Yes that is stupid beyond belief, but that's the level of storytelling we are dealing with.

I would love to see a proper fleet battle as much as the next guy, but if it existed now given he setting they have set up it would be completely out of place. Its not just that the battle has to take place, it has to make sense within the story and make sense thematically and visually. We don't need another shitty RotS opener.

What entire fleet?

From the script...

HUX: Today is the end of the Republic!
The end of a regime that acquiesces
to disorder! At this very moment,
in a system far from here the New
Republic LIES to the GALAXY while
secretly supporting the treachery of
the loathsome Resistance. This fierce
machine which you have built, upon
which we stand, will bring an end to
the Senate! To their cherished fleet!
All remaining systems will bow to
the First Order! And will remember
this... as the last day of the
Republic!

From the briefing scene at the rebel base...

C3PO: Oh my. Without the Republic fleet,
we're doomed.
They all react to this horrible news.

So confirmation from both sides. Not a fleet, not a part of the fleet, not some of the fleet, not the 3rd fleet, but THEIR and THE fleet. Its all gone.

Its hilarious to think that at this point the existence of a New Republic fleet would matter* given they all know about the existence of Starkiller at this point and what it can do. You can choke that up to C3PO being a dunce, but the reality is that writers just didn't realize it either.


* because....

ADMIRAL ACKBAR:
They have defensive shields that our
ships cannot penetrate.

And we all know the tortuous and bullshit way they wrote themselves out of that but further into shit. But I digress.

LOL. One that's the script and not necessarily cannon. Two, the first reference was rhetoric and no reason to be taken literally. The second reference was from 3PO, not a military advisory or part of the Admiralty. I would imagine that the best and brightest peeps might have been at Hosan, their best ships etc... Nothing in there is definitive, though, that it was THE fleet.

Given the fact that the New Republic seemed to overcorrect relative to the Empire, it is probable that the only active federal part of the fleet is in orbit of the capital, with most other systems having their own defensive fleets controlled mostly by the planetary governments as a militia system akin to the US pre-WW2. While in reality this never applied to the Navy, if the US were an island chain it easily could have, as navies in Star Wars are a much larger part of a necessary defensive force. Such fleets could even contain dreadnoughts, like those around Corellia or Kuat, while others like around Naboo might just contain starfighters and a planetary shield.

Don't get me wrong, I hate Starkiller Base and the crappy worldbuilding of TFA as much as the next person, but some of it can be easily justified. The actual existance of Starkiller Base is a far larger problem that will hopefully avoid much in the way of mention.

The aspects of Mon Mothra-logical de-militarization and de-centralization and the resulting mess (with or without First Order, ANH-retread Starkiller shenenigans) versus remaining centralization of armed forces in perpetual de-Imperialization conflict footing that in itself would be a militant imperial-ish manifestation of Organan-brand Gerrerism... this is a very compelling element to the post-ROTJ discourse.

As discussed in that article about how the last blaster bolt can only be eliminated when it is shot into the last stormtrooper.

I don't think it has the right feel for the new movies. Too far down the design logic pipe and too little down the visual style pipe. Even I don't love like the turret fields, but that's where the reactor size took it

I'd expect whatever big dreadnought to come out the new trilogy to be explicitly a new Executor, down to the cityscape and everything. Unless they actually manage to do something better than direct copy OT movies. Which...well I'll reserve judgment. Rogue One was great, but TFA was kinda awful in a lot of ways (fun in many ways, but awful in MANY ways).

Knife wrote:LOL. One that's the script and not necessarily cannon. Two, the first reference was rhetoric and no reason to be taken literally. The second reference was from 3PO, not a military advisory or part of the Admiralty. I would imagine that the best and brightest peeps might have been at Hosan, their best ships etc... Nothing in there is definitive, though, that it was THE fleet.

Blah blah blah I can't accept the literal highest canon spoken word so I will just pretend it didn' happen or doesn't count for nebulous ill defined reasons blah blah blah...

It always baffles me that people complain about the New Republic fleet remaining in the Hosnian system. Where else should they be during peacetime?

As for this ship, I think Ansel is right. I'd expect something more akin to an Executor that shares design elements with the Finalizer (such as the conning tower).

There is probably the concern that there would be standard "grey region" (outside of claimed local control or in conflicted control areas) anti-piracy duties, training maneuvers, or whatever for the fleet to be busy doing, rather than having them sitting (effectively) up on blocks in the front yard.

edit: ...since we know the First Order is not openly or directly hostile to the New Republic (nor is the Imperial Remnant), until the Starkiller is ready and they Pearl Harbor the capital.

Unless called upon to intercede in some sort of conflict that local forces couldn't handle themselves, it's possible that the fleet was simply not welcome within the territorial borders of the various post-Imperial sovereignties that comprised the New Republic.

In that event, it may have been decided that staying home and defending the capital was the best possible use for the NR fleet. Hell, this might even be why the First Order needed a weapon that could strike without even entering the Hosnian system.

Galvatron wrote:It always baffles me that people complain about the New Republic fleet remaining in the Hosnian system. Where else should they be during peacetime?

As for this ship, I think Ansel is right. I'd expect something more akin to an Executor that shares design elements with the Finalizer (such as the conning tower).

Was the entire USN stationed in Washington DC, or any other singular place, during the 90s? Can you think of any modern navy of note that has its base in ONE location? England? France? Russia? China? Japan? Australia? Spain? All currently at peace. None currently station their navy in their capitals or in one place.

Galvatron wrote:Unless called upon to intercede in some sort of conflict that local forces couldn't handle themselves, it's possible that the fleet was simply not welcome within the territorial borders of the various post-Imperial sovereignties that comprised the New Republic.

This is a very good argument and in general this is how I imagine the Republic and a good portion of the pre-Alderaan core world Empire functioned day to day as well. The problem is that we are forced to believe that the only organically controlled territory of the galactic government was the capital world itself? Bullshit. Maybe you can't have your fleet yard over Corellia, but that hardly means there is nowhere else for your fleet to reside that makes sense strategically besides the actual capital.

Its also pointed out repeatedly in TFA that the Rebelion 2.0 is enjoying the protection of the New Republic fleet which calls out current operations of some sort.

Patroklos, I think you're overestimating the extent to which the writers are going to feel that their hands are bound because of a couple of one-liners in throwaway dialogue. We may very well find out that a whole bunch of Republic ships survived the strike on the Hosnian system.

Then again, I suppose we may find out that none survived, in which case I officially ragequit any attempt to work out how the galaxy actually functions geopolitically in the 'sequel era.'

Maybe the New Republic had only recently massed its entire fleet in the Hosnian system in response to threats of a preemptive attack by a force of unknown size and strength. Unfortunately for them, doing so played right into the First Order's hands by giving the Starkiller one big target.

"None survive" might've been either alarmist initial reactions, for all we know none of the surviving ships were able to radio in due to either the wholesale elimination of a shitload of holo-net holo-comms nodes throughout the system OR understandable if albeit techno-babbley hyperspatial effects of entire SPHERICAL MASSES OF iron SUNMATTER being hurled through hyperspace to MIRV-fuck a whole buncha planets... thus disrupting comms. And heck the First Order or like sensationalist on-scene reporters like AXEL SENJO of DATABATTLES might've spouted all sorts of crap.

I am just going to take this opportunity to point out that if the movie was not shit and the writers even more shit we would not have to be doing their jobs for them.

Then again I am part of the problem. I paid to see their shit movie. Thus they are going to make more of it. Though they haven't made a penny on merchandising off me. Take that!

Adam Reynolds wrote:Given the fact that the New Republic seemed to overcorrect relative to the Empire, it is probable that the only active federal part of the fleet is in orbit of the capital, with most other systems having their own defensive fleets controlled mostly by the planetary governments as a militia system akin to the US pre-WW2. While in reality this never applied to the Navy, if the US were an island chain it easily could have, as navies in Star Wars are a much larger part of a necessary defensive force. Such fleets could even contain dreadnoughts, like those around Corellia or Kuat, while others like around Naboo might just contain starfighters and a planetary shield.

Don't get me wrong, I hate Starkiller Base and the crappy worldbuilding of TFA as much as the next person, but some of it can be easily justified. The actual existance of Starkiller Base is a far larger problem that will hopefully avoid much in the way of mention.

I think the best way to justify it is that the New Republic decided the solution to the wars is to have effectively no government. Their official policy may be extreme federalism (perhaps a return back to the pre-clone wars state of affairs). They maintain a small fleet (a couple thousand ISD masses), mostly in the capital, with a few ships in their scattered territories. They sell off most of their ships to local governments, and give them deep autonomy in their own territories. Naturally, this creates problems. First off, piracy could quite well run rampant, as could privateers as governments strike at each other.
Then, the Hosnian strike happens. Most of the New Republic fleet is destroyed. While in theory the constitutient states massively outnumber the First Order, disorder and economic chaos from constant war allows the First Order to sweep in and collect most of the new republic states, as well as defeat the rest. This could also be helped by the fact that they seem to be an army with a state.
And so, The Last Jedi could open two or three years later. The First Order now controls the vast majority of the galaxy, and has built up huge fleets. Resistance has been largely defeated. And we get our Rebellion 2.0 plot. The problem is that even small remnants could still muster much larger fleets than the rebellion had in the Original Trilogy.

Rhadamantus wrote:And so, The Last Jedi could open two or three years later.

TLJ takes place immediately after TFA. They've already said so.

There could be a time jump at some point during the TLJ, however. After all, we get glimpses of what looks like a new Resistance base in the trailer and I doubt they relocated over night.

No, that sounds like exactly what they would come up with.

You could be right. Maybe the Resistance has contingency bases scattered all over the galaxy.