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The latest round of Darth Vader comics have finally explained how and why he was DEFINITELY subordinate to Tarkin in ANH (and even before then).

...Okay? I mean, this is nice and all, but it doesn't tell us much of anything. A little explanation in spoiler-text might help for those either without access to said comics, means to purchase them, or inclination to read them?

Okay.

Up to now, it's been rationalized that "Vader was just being politely deferential" or "Tarkin is only in charge on the Death Star" by some fans for years. It was vague in the old EU as well, but the new comics make it explicitly clear when the Emperor himself puts Vader in his place and straight up tells him in no uncertain terms that Tarkin is his boss. Here's a snippet...



There's no indication that this was meant to be a temporary arrangement either.

I doubt it would have been permanent, if only because Palpatine playing his subordinates off each other is nothing new.

But I do think a lot of people mistakenly assume that Number 2. in the Sith hierarchy is the same as Number 2. in the Imperial hierarchy.

Permanent or not, it seems to have lasted for a good many years until Tarkin's ultimate demise. As I theorized before, Vader served whomever the Emperor told him to serve. First it was Tarkin, then it was Tagge.

Hmm, I can't remember. Was the Empire actually building the Death Star around Geonosis, or did they discover the prototype there? I can't quite recall...

Tagge met a rather sticky end as far as that went, if I recall the second-to-last Vader TPB correctly.

Elheru Aran wrote: ↑2018-07-23 07:58pm Hmm, I can't remember. Was the Empire actually building the Death Star around Geonosis, or did they discover the prototype there? I can't quite recall...

I kinda lost track myself. Even the Wookieepedia is murky, but it seems that the Republic actually began its construction over Geonosis prior to the end of the Clone Wars.

Elheru Aran wrote: ↑2018-07-23 07:58pmTagge met a rather sticky end as far as that went, if I recall the second-to-last Vader TPB correctly.

He done fucked up.

Awesome. I love how it reinforces the idea that Vader is really a pathetic figure. He was once a powerful Jedi, but burned it all to the ground and became some guy in an iron lung. Even once ESB rolls around, he's not so much respected as he is just feared.

Not only that, but in a pretty major twist ending it's heavily implied that...
Spoiler

Because of this...
Spoiler

To quote Hermes Comrad; "that just raises further questions!"

The rest of the issue makes it clearer, but I doubt anyone would want me to post every page.

Gandalf wrote: ↑2018-07-23 09:46pm Awesome. I love how it reinforces the idea that Vader is really a pathetic figure. He was once a powerful Jedi, but burned it all to the ground and became some guy in an iron lung. Even once ESB rolls around, he's not so much respected as he is just feared.

Hardly. Anakin was known but was way down on the list of notables in the Jedi order, behind at least all of the random Jedi masters we see in the films, and who knows how many random Jedi masters in the other media.

In Empire its much the same, but he has the distinction of being the personal enforcer of the Emperor and holding his favor. In a monarchy like the Empire, that distinction is more important than formal titles in most cases.

What I like about this situation is it that in rienforces that that Empire was a more complicated entity politically, and it supplies a rich environment for intrigue and machinations when someone we know like Vader still has to walk delicately. It implies a diverse field of other villains in the world.

Patroklos wrote: ↑2018-07-24 02:16am In Empire its much the same, but he has the distinction of being the personal enforcer of the Emperor and holding his favor. In a monarchy like the Empire, that distinction is more important than formal titles in most cases.

Even long before TESB, the Emperor gathered an assembly of high-ranking Imperial officers and then this happened...



However, this occured before he handed Vader's leash over to Tarkin. The point remains the same though: the Emperor giveth and he taketh away, as it suits him.

Galvatron wrote: ↑2018-07-24 02:09am The rest of the issue makes it clearer, but I doubt anyone would want me to post every page.

Can you summarize? Because what Vader said to Tarkin (which apparently gave the old Grand Moff a pause, which is by itself an achievement) seems more like a "friendly" bickering in the good old Sith/Imperial manner. It both reminded Tarkin that Vader can be dangerous and have teeth even when he is not, metaphorically speaking, baring them, and reminded audience that Vader can surprise people (he managed to do so to the Emperor in his own series, after all, several times in fact).

But it would be out of character for Disney-era Vader to be plotting against Tarkin directly and in such a disastrous manner. I need more proof of that.

Chronologically, where does this fit in with the latest issue of Darth Vader proper, where Vader tasks Tarkin with 'hunting' him?

Sometime afterward since Vader wasn't yet Tarkin's lackey at the time of the hunt.

Galvatron wrote: ↑2018-07-24 04:05am

Patroklos wrote: ↑2018-07-24 02:16am In Empire its much the same, but he has the distinction of being the personal enforcer of the Emperor and holding his favor. In a monarchy like the Empire, that distinction is more important than formal titles in most cases.

Even long before TESB, the Emperor gathered an assembly of high-ranking Imperial officers and then this happened...



However, this occured before he handed Vader's leash over to Tarkin. The point remains the same though: the Emperor giveth and he taketh away, as it suits him.

Which series was this from again?

AniThyng wrote: ↑2018-07-25 11:53am

Galvatron wrote: ↑2018-07-24 04:05am

Patroklos wrote: ↑2018-07-24 02:16am In Empire its much the same, but he has the distinction of being the personal enforcer of the Emperor and holding his favor. In a monarchy like the Empire, that distinction is more important than formal titles in most cases.

Even long before TESB, the Emperor gathered an assembly of high-ranking Imperial officers and then this happened...



However, this occured before he handed Vader's leash over to Tarkin. The point remains the same though: the Emperor giveth and he taketh away, as it suits him.

Which series was this from again?

"Darth Vader" by Marvel.

Elheru Aran wrote: ↑2018-07-25 12:05pm "Darth Vader" by Marvel.

Do you have access to said comics, means to purchase them or inclination to read them yet?

Galvatron wrote: ↑2018-07-25 10:57pm

Elheru Aran wrote: ↑2018-07-25 12:05pm "Darth Vader" by Marvel.

Do you have access to said comics, means to purchase them or inclination to read them yet?

Nah, I found some TPB's awhile ago at the bookstore and flipped through them, but I don't have access etcetera to the latest issues until they get compiled in TPB. Last one I saw had a bunch of leftover Jedi and Vader making his classic ANH lightsaber, I think.

The new Marvel Disney Comics are going down the same path a lot of the old Bantam/Dark Horse EU did.

Intrigue for the sake of intrigue and quadruple/triple/double crossing as a routine matter. If things worked that way, then the Empire would never have lasted 20~ years.

Both Vader and Tarkin should have mutual respect for each other; and in fact, their friendship should be what keeps the Empire together -- each of them counterbalances the other's excesses; which explains why the Empire only lasted a few more years post ANH, but lasted 20 years prior to ANH.

Basically, if Tarkin had been alive post ANH, he'd have kept Vader's head "in the game", by keeping him from becoming too obsessed with Luke.

If anything, the relationship between Vader and Tarkin is friendlier than it was in the old EU. Vader hates the Death Star, not Tarkin. That doesn't mean they never bicker, though.

MKSheppard wrote: ↑2018-08-01 07:29pm Both Vader and Tarkin should have mutual respect for each other; and in fact, their friendship should be what keeps the Empire together -- each of them counterbalances the other's excesses; which explains why the Empire only lasted a few more years post ANH, but lasted 20 years prior to ANH.

Basically, if Tarkin had been alive post ANH, he'd have kept Vader's head "in the game", by keeping him from becoming too obsessed with Luke.

Agreed, but I think that's still true.