StarDestroyer.Net BBS

Really? Force Ghost Palpatine? If that is really the case, the writers are just repeating the old EU stories.

Well, that explains why the internet at large was suddenly more jizz-soaked than usual today.

Also, I wonder where that chunk of the Death Star is? Maybe that's the environmentally devastated Endor moon? Is the Endor Holocaust now official canon!?

I didn't see anything readily identifiable as a Death Star chunk.

I am, of course, going to see it(and am not opposed to Palpatine being back), but I want to see a fleet battle.

Lonestar wrote: ↑2019-04-12 01:56pm I didn't see anything readily identifiable as a Death Star chunk.

I see it too. It looks like a piece of the superlaser. Rey and Poe appears to be looking at it in the body of water at 1:39. Unless it's a cliff...

Lonestar wrote: ↑2019-04-12 01:56pm I didn't see anything readily identifiable as a Death Star chunk.

I am, of course, going to see it(and am not opposed to Palpatine being back), but I want to see a fleet battle.

I second the desire for a proper fleet battle. ROTS had some good attempts at it but come on...10 SW films to date and the closest we got to a proper fleet battle was the brief opening to ROTS and the ending to Rogue One. Bah.

Also. Another fucking desert? Really?

Wow this trilogy is just one big directionless mess isn't it.
Introduce Emperor-like character...pointlessly kill the Emperor-like character...bring back literally the Emperor...Luke Skywalker is our only hope...Jedi must end and Luke won't teach you anything...1000 generations live in you and Luke taught you everything...put on the mask...destroy the mask...weld the mask back together...let the past go...bring Lando back from the mothballs.
Nice backflip though. Lightsaber vs TIE fighter kung fu. That's new I guess.

ray245 wrote: ↑2019-04-12 01:37pm

Really? Force Ghost Palpatine? If that is really the case, the writers are just repeating the old EU stories.

Well, this sucks.

I want to give it a fair chance, I really do, but just rehashing Palpatine is lame. I'm sure the fanboys will love it though. At least until Rey beats him and they whine about "Mary Sues" again. Because God forbid the franchise ever do anything new or different from the Sainted OT.

It would also suggest that Abrams is basically making a two hour fuck-you to Johnson by shoving Kylo back to secondary villain status, which would be both unprofessional and lame ass pandering to the whiners.

Alferd Packer wrote: ↑2019-04-12 01:45pm Well, that explains why the internet at large was suddenly more jizz-soaked than usual today.

Also, I wonder where that chunk of the Death Star is? Maybe that's the environmentally devastated Endor moon? Is the Endor Holocaust now official canon!?

I will be PISSED if they make the Endor Holocaust canon. Its a just a stupid fan "theory" which exists because a) Ewok hate and b) "The Rebels committed an atrocity! Both Sides are just as bad! Dark and Edgy fap fap fap fap fap..."

Lonestar wrote: ↑2019-04-12 01:56pm I didn't see anything readily identifiable as a Death Star chunk.

I am, of course, going to see it(and am not opposed to Palpatine being back), but I want to see a fleet battle.

Definitely agreed on a full-out fleet battle (all the space action in TLJ was nice, but not really a propper fleet battle, because the sides were too mismatched for that.

Edit: I reiterate: Never write based on what you think the fandom wants. That may seem counter-intuitive, even insulting, but the fandom is a conflicted group of different people's nostalgia glasses and axes to grind, and the best you will get is an incoherent mess, and at worst, you'll get a film pandering to the Alt. Reich, since they tend to be the most vocal fans online. Unfortunately, with social media and creators more and more interacting with (and being expected to interact with) fans, and long-running franchises being run by people who grew up as fans, we're likely going to see more and more franchises which copy their own fandoms, essentially eating themselves in an ever-downward spiral of creative canabalistic incest. You can see this same process affect Who and Harry Potter as well, for example.

I'm just waiting for Star Wars: the ReyLo adventures.

All that said, the trailer actually looks pretty slick, aside from the annoying openining with all the heavy breathing. Rey vs what I assume to be Kylo's fighter looks bad ass. I'm glad that, from the narration, they don't seem to be backtracking on Rey's power or her essentially being on the level of a full Jedi now.

That does look like Death Star debris. The planet its on doesn't look desolate enough for full Endor Holocaust, though. But boy, desert planet plus Endor for the third film would really not help the "they're just copying the OT" complaints.

The laugh at the end does sound like it could be Palpatine, but for all we know, without more context, it could be just a holo-recording. That would actually be pretty fucking cool- acknowledging Star Wars' greatest big bad and tying him into the story with a cameo. Better that than the most likely alternative, which is that that laugh is a clumsily-retconned to be alive again Snoke. I just don't want Palpatine suddenly brought back as main villain.

I'm torn between really enjoying the trailer and being worried about Palpatine coming back and all that.

I do hope they really end the saga and not leave it open for another movie.

Ace Pace wrote: ↑2019-04-12 03:35pm I'm torn between really enjoying the trailer and being worried about Palpatine coming back and all that.

I do hope they really end the saga and not leave it open for another movie.

I think they will end this story, but there will always be room for more stories. That's not a bad thing. They have a whole galaxy to play with. The problem is that they're too narrow in the sorts of stories they're willing to tell, if anything.

But really, do you think they're going to kill a franchise worth billions because some fans on the internet are angry and want it to end?

The Romulan Republic wrote: ↑2019-04-12 03:18pm Well, this sucks.

I want to give it a fair chance, I really do, but just rehashing Palpatine is lame. I'm sure the fanboys will love it though. At least until Rey beats him and they whine about "Mary Sues" again. Because God forbid the franchise ever do anything new or different from the Sainted OT.

It would also suggest that Abrams is basically making a two hour fuck-you to Johnson by shoving Kylo back to secondary villain status, which would be both unprofessional and lame ass pandering to the whiners.

This is why I think fanboys generally shouldn't be the ones directing a sequel/remake of their favourite movies. It's the same scenario with Peter Jackson's King Kong. They are so caught up in nostalgia that they are incapable of being bold storytellers. But all the fanboys will lap it up because they are fanboys.

JJ Abrams is a fanboy, and he does share some of the bad attributes that we associate with fanboys. His whole "male gaze" issue when he films women doesn't help either.

The Romulan Republic wrote: ↑2019-04-12 03:37pm

Ace Pace wrote: ↑2019-04-12 03:35pm I'm torn between really enjoying the trailer and being worried about Palpatine coming back and all that.

I do hope they really end the saga and not leave it open for another movie.

I think they will end this story, but there will always be room for more stories. That's not a bad thing. They have a whole galaxy to play with. The problem is that they're too narrow in the sorts of stories they're willing to tell, if anything.

But really, do you think they're going to kill a franchise worth billions because some fans on the internet are angry and want it to end?

Oh, don't get me wrong. I want more Star Wars movies. I just want the Skywalker saga to end with some sort of closure.

I'm just wondering if Rey is ever going to get a new set of clothes.

ray245 wrote: ↑2019-04-12 03:42pm

The Romulan Republic wrote: ↑2019-04-12 03:18pm Well, this sucks.

I want to give it a fair chance, I really do, but just rehashing Palpatine is lame. I'm sure the fanboys will love it though. At least until Rey beats him and they whine about "Mary Sues" again. Because God forbid the franchise ever do anything new or different from the Sainted OT.

It would also suggest that Abrams is basically making a two hour fuck-you to Johnson by shoving Kylo back to secondary villain status, which would be both unprofessional and lame ass pandering to the whiners.

This is why I think fanboys generally shouldn't be the ones directing a sequel/remake of their favourite movies. It's the same scenario with Peter Jackson's King Kong. They are so caught up in nostalgia that they are incapable of being bold storytellers. But all the fanboys will lap it up because they are fanboys.

JJ Abrams is a fanboy, and he does share some of the bad attributes that we associate with fanboys. His whole "male gaze" issue when he films women doesn't help either.

Same shit happened with Moffat and Who, and I'm still bitter over it.

To me, though, the most important thing is not whether a writer or director is a fan. Its whether they're a professional who will take the job and the material seriously and behave professionally, rather than using the job to further their own agendas. Some fans can do that. A lot... can't. Or at any rate choose not to.

Ace Pace wrote: ↑2019-04-12 03:49pm

The Romulan Republic wrote: ↑2019-04-12 03:37pm

Ace Pace wrote: ↑2019-04-12 03:35pm I'm torn between really enjoying the trailer and being worried about Palpatine coming back and all that.

I do hope they really end the saga and not leave it open for another movie.

I think they will end this story, but there will always be room for more stories. That's not a bad thing. They have a whole galaxy to play with. The problem is that they're too narrow in the sorts of stories they're willing to tell, if anything.

But really, do you think they're going to kill a franchise worth billions because some fans on the internet are angry and want it to end?

Oh, don't get me wrong. I want more Star Wars movies. I just want the Skywalker saga to end with some sort of closure.

Fair enough.

The other thing I'm shocked more people aren't commenting on: The trailer is apparently called "The Rise of Skywalker". Does that mean a new Skywalker will be revealed? Or is Abrams going to retcon Rey as a Skywalker? Not sure how I'd feel about that. I'd have loved it before TLJ, but now... it would likely feel like a clumsy retcon to spite Johnson/appease the whiners, and like it came too late, unless handled very well.

RogueIce wrote: ↑2019-04-12 04:35pm I'm just wondering if Rey is ever going to get a new set of clothes.

Maybe Jedi robes at the end? But I like her outfit, so I don't care.

RogueIce wrote: I'm just wondering if Rey is ever going to get a new set of clothes.

Maybe she has a number of identical sets so she doesn't have to think about what to wear

Batman wrote: ↑2019-04-12 04:38pm

RogueIce wrote: I'm just wondering if Rey is ever going to get a new set of clothes.

Maybe she has a number of identical sets so she doesn't have to think about what to wear

That doesn't really work, though, because her outfit looks (probably deliberately, given her background) like it was put together out of whatever she could scavenge, not purchased at Space GAP.

My biggest issue/fear here is that it looks more and more like Abrams is going to retcon a lot of stuff from TLJ. Which in addition to just making TLJ more problematic by making it the odd man out of the trilogy, is going to send a message to future writers and directors that they better not try to do anything original or that the OT fanboys might not like, because it will be quickly swept under the rug to appease the complainers in the next film. That is the road to creative sterility and no writers or directors who aren't complete hacks wanting to work for you.

Edit: On the plus side, and so as not to be excessively negative, Lando in the trailer=Fuck Yeah, and Leia hugging Rey=DAWWWW.

The Romulan Republic wrote: ↑2019-04-12 04:36pm Same shit happened with Moffat and Who, and I'm still bitter over it.

To me, though, the most important thing is not whether a writer or director is a fan. Its whether they're a professional who will take the job and the material seriously and behave professionally, rather than using the job to further their own agendas. Some fans can do that. A lot... can't. Or at any rate choose not to.

I think most of the "I grew up watching the OT in the cinema" generation of fans can't do that. Generally speaking, in my personal experience, many of the fans from that era espouse the same kind of views about what SW is about.

Rian Johnson is one of those fans that have a different view, and look at how the fanbase reacted to him.

The other thing I'm shocked more people aren't commenting on: The trailer is apparently called "The Rise of Skywalker". Does that mean a new Skywalker will be revealed? Or is Abrams going to retcon Rey as a Skywalker? Not sure how I'd feel about that. I'd have loved it before TLJ, but now... it would likely feel like a clumsy retcon to spite Johnson/appease the whiners, and like it came too late, unless handled very well.

If Abrams really did make Rey a Skywalker, then it will be nice for all the people who kept saying "oh JJ Abrams was in total agreement with Rian Johnson and they aren't just making comments out of being professional in public to fans" to admit they are wrong for a change.

I think JJ Abrams and Rian Johnson have very strong disagreements about the direction of the ST, but they are just being professional in public to voice their dirty laundry at each other.

The Romulan Republic wrote: ↑2019-04-12 04:43pm My biggest issue/fear here is that it looks more and more like Abrams is going to retcon a lot of stuff from TLJ. Which in addition to just making TLJ more problematic by making it the odd man out of the trilogy, is going to send a message to future writers and directors that they better not try to do anything original or that the OT fanboys might not like, because it will be quickly swept under the rug to appease the complainers in the next film. That is the road to creative sterility and no writers or directors who aren't complete hacks wanting to work for you.

Edit: On the plus side, and so as not to be excessively negative, Lando in the trailer=Fuck Yeah, and Leia hugging Rey=DAWWWW.

If anything, it will reaffirm my view that there was no sense of direction for the entire ST trilogy, and LFL under Disney and Kennedy's management is creatively cowardly.

In my opinion, the people who cheered for JJ Abrams as a safe choice to reboot the SW franchise are the ones that's mostly to blame, together with Kennedy for being overly eager to hire Abrams (maybe to appease those fans as well) in the first place.

My view of Abrams is that he's a capable director who should probably have never been let near the script.

Edit: I also think they should have had either three directors or one for the trilogy. Having two just leaves one film sticking out like a sore thumb.

The Romulan Republic wrote: ↑2019-04-12 04:43pm My biggest issue/fear here is that it looks more and more like Abrams is going to retcon a lot of stuff from TLJ.

Considering how much TLJ varied in tone and content from TFA, the horse has already bolted there. Why are TLJ's retcons and new direction acceptable and IX's aren't?

Why should Abrams hew to Johnson's views any more than Johnson did to his?

Lonestar wrote: ↑2019-04-12 01:56pm I didn't see anything readily identifiable as a Death Star chunk.

I am, of course, going to see it(and am not opposed to Palpatine being back), but I want to see a fleet battle.

Thanks to the minimalism of TLJ this can never happen without another ass pull regarding the NR fleet actually still being alive, which just wrecks TLJ even more.

On this trailer, it seems we have some Abraham’s revenge reconning to bring things back to his vision, which is inevitable. It would be one thing if Johnson had provided anything worth keeping but since that didn’t happen its hard to get worked up over anything being overwritten. I wish Rey wasn’t a Skywalker, but it seems like that is the case.

As for the “fans” TRR loves to hate, I don’t see how bringing back Palpantine and in effect erasing much of the relevance of the OT is what people want. They really just want a movie with a plot that makes sense, a world that is respected and seamless, and no inappropriate shoe horning of themes that are not properly set up and appropriate tonaly. It would also be nice if we don’t have any more main characters romping around with nothing interesting or important to do. So in other words, everything TLJ lacked and any good movie from any franchise or genre has.

As for the Endor holocaust, I fail to see how an Imperial doomsday machine being destroyed and despoiling a planet is the Rebels fault. It is a good lesson on the consequences of war and the price and trade offs made to fight evil, but thats as stupid as blaming the Allies for causing food shortages in occupied Europe by bombing the transport infrustructre. Endor being a wasteland is a simply physics exercise, and thats how most people approached it, yet everything has to be manipulated and weaponized for contemporary purposes it seems. It’s the same feel as Cassian murdering informants. Its really no different than Jakku given what we see. A 17km Executor crashing from orbit with enough structure to be recognizable is an extinction level event.

DP

The Romulan Republic wrote: ↑2019-04-12 04:58pm My view of Abrams is that he's a capable director who should probably have never been let near the script.

Edit: I also think they should have had either three directors or one for the trilogy. Having two just leaves one film sticking out like a sore thumb.

They wanted 3 different directors. Kennedy fired one of them.

I think Abrams is a bad director ( at least someone who is overhyped). There's a few times where he mis-framed his shots, and creating very problematic shots as a result. He reminds me of those overgrown fanboys, and I don't enjoy those kind of storytelling. Abrams is a Steve-Jobs of film-making, essentially someone who is skilled in marketing and building hype, but whether that translates into a quality product after people are able to look at it in a more calmer manner once the hype has died is a whole different issue.

For people who are very susceptible to hype ( many fans are, given by the reaction about Palpatine in the comments around the internet), Abrams is a director for them. For people that are less so, Abrams will not be a director for you.

Crazedwraith wrote: ↑2019-04-12 05:03pm

The Romulan Republic wrote: ↑2019-04-12 04:43pm My biggest issue/fear here is that it looks more and more like Abrams is going to retcon a lot of stuff from TLJ.

Considering how much TLJ varied in tone and content from TFA, the horse has already bolted there. Why are TLJ's retcons and new direction acceptable and IX's aren't?

Why should Abrams hew to Johnson's views any more than Johnson did to his?

Some variation in tone is fine, even a good thing, to a point. Look at how monotone the MCU became for a while. That's different from changing major plot elements.

Also, while Johnson probably went against Abrams' intent, he didn't flat out contradict anything that Abrams explicitly declared or depicted as canon in TFA, so far as I can recall. Changing direction from a director's probable intent is different from flat-out retconning or ignoring major plot points.

Moreover, just because one director did it doesn't necessarily mean they should double down.

Patroklos wrote: ↑2019-04-12 05:04pm

Lonestar wrote: ↑2019-04-12 01:56pm I didn't see anything readily identifiable as a Death Star chunk.

I am, of course, going to see it(and am not opposed to Palpatine being back), but I want to see a fleet battle.

Thanks to the minimalism of TLJ this can never happen without another ass pull regarding the NR fleet actually still being alive, which just wrecks TLJ even more.

First Order civil war due to Kylo's shaky leadership position and Hux's dissent. Or elements of the NR finally getting their act together and revolting. Neither TFA (which was the film that actually showed the NR fleet getting blown up, not TLJ) or TLJ ever claimed that every NR ship was destroyed. Likely there were many that routed or surrendered after the decapitation strike. Even in TLJ, IIRC, they only claimed that the NR would fall in a matter of weeks or something.

On this trailer, it seems we have some Abraham’s revenge reconning to bring things back to his vision, which is inevitable. It would be one thing if Johnson had provided anything worth keeping but since that didn’t happen its hard to get worked up over anything being overwritten. I wish Rey wasn’t a Skywalker, but it seems like that is the case.

Well, if that's the case, of course you'll like it, because its meant to pander to haters like you. That doesn't mean its good writing, or good for the future of the franchise.

As for the “fans” TRR loves to hate, I don’t see how bringing back Palpantine and in effect erasing much of the relevance of the OT is what people want. They really just want a movie with a plot that makes sense, a world that is respected and seamless, and no inappropriate shoe horning of themes that are not properly set up and appropriate tonaly. It would also be nice if we don’t have any more main characters romping around with nothing interesting or important to do. So in other words, everything TLJ lacked and any good movie from any franchise or genre has.

And of course you put "fans" in quotes while explicitly singling me out, to denote that I am Not A Real Fan because I dare to have a different opinion than you. What's next, accusing me of being a paid Disney plant?

This is what I fucking loath about fandoms, and the Star Wars fandom in particular. The shear poisonous arrogant entitlement that lets random assholes on the internet proclaim that they are the gatekeepers of the franchise, with the right to decree what is and isn't Star Wars and who is and isn't a "Real Fan".

The way I see it, I'm more a fan than you'll ever be, because I actually think that the franchise should be allowed to grow and evolve, rather than living as a stunted homunculous forever eating its own excrement.

As for the Endor holocaust, I fail to see how an Imperial doomsday machine being destroyed and despoiling a planet is the Rebels fault. It is a good lesson on the consequences of war and the price and trade offs made to fight evil, but thats as stupid as blaming the Allies for causing food shortages in occupied Europe by bombing the transport infrustructre. Endor being a wasteland is a simply physics exercise, and thats how most people approached it, yet everything has to be manipulated and weaponized for contemporary purposes it seems. It’s the same feel as Cassian murdering informants. Its really no different than Jakku given what we see. A 17km Executor crashing from orbit with enough structure to be recognizable is an extinction level event.

Still a stupid fan theory born out of Ewok hate and a desire to be edgy, which directly undermines the conclusion of the Sainted OT.

I mean, its not like it would be hard for the Rebellion to throw a shield over the place.