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The scenario: by some quirk of fate, Darth Maul wasn't killed on Naboo by Obi-Wan Kenobi. Instead, courtesy of faulty relativistic shielding, he drops out of hyperspace years later to face the events of Episode II. Shortly after this, he encounters Mace Windu upon the streets of Coruscant. Both recognize the threat the other represents and decide to settle things once and for all.

Note that this battle doesn't touch upon Mace Windu's (some would say questionable) knowledge of squad tactics, but solely on his prowess as an individual warrior.

Darth Maul carries his black cloak, his lightstaff, and bad attitude. Mace Windu has only his mojo and his lightsaber. Who will be the one to walk away, and who will die? Discuss...


Motherfucker.

Well, IIRC, GL once said that Maul and Dooku were just about as good as one another, and since Dooku is Mace's superior, it would probably follow that Maul is as well.

Durran Korr wrote:Well, IIRC, GL once said that Maul and Dooku were just about as good as one another, and since Dooku is Mace's superior, it would probably follow that Maul is as well.

He did? WTF

Durran Korr wrote:Well, IIRC, GL once said that Maul and Dooku were just about as good as one another, and since Dooku is Mace's superior, it would probably follow that Maul is as well.

Dooku is Mace's superior? I think not.

Mace is far more a warrior than Yoda and is probably the only Jedi better than him. Mace takes it.

Illuminatus Primus wrote:

Durran Korr wrote:Well, IIRC, GL once said that Maul and Dooku were just about as good as one another, and since Dooku is Mace's superior, it would probably follow that Maul is as well.

Dooku is Mace's superior? I think not.

Mace is far more a warrior than Yoda and is probably the only Jedi better than him. Mace takes it.

OK, I'm good for that unless I can find that GL quote.

Mace.

Despite being tired out by a master, Maul was still felled by a Patawan.

anarchistbunny wrote:Mace.

Despite being tired out by a master, Maul was still felled by a Patawan.

Although Maul was essentially kicking the shit out of Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan until he got over confident. I think it would take a quite a bit for him to get overconfident against Mace.

I really don't think we've seen Mace in action enough to make the call. The only time I thought he looked impressive was when he was blocking blaster bolts as he fell into the Geonosis arena. Other than that he hasn't been that impressive (yes, even killing Jango).

I also think Maul moves much better than Windu does but then Dooku defeated both Anakin and Obi-Wan without having to be extremely mobile.

Being a senior member of the Jedi Council I would tend to give Mace the edge in pure Force abilities but once again that's hard to say since the one time we've really seen Maul fight he was up against two Jedi for most of the time.

I'd think Windu takes this.

Windu was seconded only to Yoda.

Both are Jedi Masters.

Maul fell to a Padawan.

But then again their fighting styles might give Maul the upper hand, as he appears to be faster.

So what he's a council member "You would be on the council by now" Qui-Gon ~= Mace

Aside from that Maul has the shroud of the darkside to draw on. He'd be even more powerful than he was before.

Gandalf wrote:Maul fell to a Padawan.

Vader fell to a barely trained guy....

NecronLord wrote:

Gandalf wrote:Maul fell to a Padawan.

Vader fell to a barely trained guy....

Yeah, but Vader was a cripple.

neoolong wrote:

NecronLord wrote:

Gandalf wrote:Maul fell to a Padawan.

Vader fell to a barely trained guy....

Yeah, but Vader was a cripple.

Is he? Machine>Man

NecronLord wrote:

neoolong wrote:

NecronLord wrote: Vader fell to a barely trained guy....

Yeah, but Vader was a cripple.

Is he? Machine>Man

And look how well that hindered Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan in TPM.

Besides, didn't Lucas say before TPM that we had only see a couple of old men fight and a half-trained boy fighting a cripple before TPM?

I think characterising Mace Windu's style as unimpressive would be missing the point.

One mean mofo wrote:Nick is the man. This is my second go-round with Nick--he also did Shaft. Now he's doing lightsaber battles for us all, and a lot of Kendo stuff. I guess that, because I'm such a fan of Japanese samurai movies and I've watched a lot of Kendo fights, I'm doing pretty well at it. It's basically a lot more footwork than I thought. For the sword stuff, getting the feet right and getting the steps so you can actually do it right--it's a lot like dance choreography. The feet have to be right so that the strikes look correct.

He's put together a pretty exciting and incredible fight for me. And since I'm supposedly the second baddest person in the universe, I'm pretty efficient. I don't do a lot of fancy sword-twirling or anything. I dispense people pretty quickly, use as little energy as possible. But I'm pretty bad.

http://www.starwars.com/episode-ii/feat ... index.html

In other words, it's cleaner, less flashy, than Maul's style. Upon looking back at what I can remember of EPII, I think I agree.

It'd be close but Mace would win barely. Maul is hampered by his contempt for those who use the lightside. In Shadow Hunter and in TPM he continually shows contempt and underestimates his Jedi opponents. Mace however is well aware of what a Dark Jedi is capable off and would bide his time untill Maul makes a critical error.

Its hard to make this kind of judgement. Maul took on a great master and a great padawan. Dooku took on a good master and an ok padawan (If anakin had listened to obi-wan they would of done a better job). So comparing dooku and maul for this fight is a bit unfair in my opinion. We have never seen mace in a light saber fight either so there is alot that we don't know. Hopefully in episode 3 we can answer this question. So for now i will hold my opinion until episode 3.

Shaft, Mace Windu's alter ego would appear, pull out a shotgun and-BOOM!-Maul is fucking down.

SHAFT: Case closed mutha fucka.

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More realistically, Windu has been said to be second to only Yoda in lightsaber combat. Yoda > Dooku, Dooku > Maul. If we were to put Dooku on par with Windu (sounds reasonable) then Windu takes it.

Also, it is interesting to note that both combatants use Form VII lightsaber technique; a technique that focuses on power over finess, with broad sweeping strokes, minimal use of energy, and heavy use of Force-assited jumps and movements.

neoolong wrote:

NecronLord wrote:

neoolong wrote: Yeah, but Vader was a cripple.

Is he? Machine>Man

And look how well that hindered Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan in TPM.

Besides, didn't Lucas say before TPM that we had only see a couple of old men fight and a half-trained boy fighting a cripple before TPM?

GL might have been refering to something in terms of theme, which he was talking about heyday of the Jedi vs. twilight of the Order.

From observed capabilities in Crimson Empire and Star Wars Tales, we see that Vader is more than capable of being agile and destroying much more nible fighters than himself. Including the Jedi Master known as the Dark Woman.

Mace, because of experience and profenicy in the Force.

Illuminatus Primus wrote:GL might have been refering to something in terms of theme, which he was talking about heyday of the Jedi vs. twilight of the Order.

From observed capabilities in Crimson Empire and Star Wars Tales, we see that Vader is more than capable of being agile and destroying much more nible fighters than himself. Including the Jedi Master known as the Dark Woman.

Actually I remember now vaguely some comics I saw with him kicking some butt. So yeah, you're probably right.

Darth Garden Gnome wrote:Shaft, Mace Windu's alter ego would appear, pull out a shotgun and-BOOM!-Maul is fucking down.

SHAFT: Case closed mutha fucka.

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More realistically, Windu has been said to be second to only Yoda in lightsaber combat. Yoda > Dooku, Dooku > Maul. If we were to put Dooku on par with Windu (sounds reasonable) then Windu takes it.

Also, it is interesting to note that both combatants use Form VII lightsaber technique; a technique that focuses on power over finess, with broad sweeping strokes, minimal use of energy, and heavy use of Force-assited jumps and movements.

I find the idea of Maul using form VII... questionable, at best. It's a form "still in development" by the Jedi, Mace being one of its later pioneers. Where would Maul have learned it? Why would Maul use it? It's not complete, it's the epitome of the Jedi arts (thereby implying that Maul would need to employ Jedi knowledge in order to survive) and its applicants are "screened rigorously" for darkside influence. In fact, in order to master it one must practice all other jedi forms beforehand! I somehow doubt Maul has done this.

No, I think the resemblance is overrated. Maul uses much more fancy footwork, and the slashes he makes are swipes, whereas Windu's blows are focused, arrested blows. Also, contrary to what you claim, Windu showed a high degree of precision in the arena. IIRC, he executes two blows, the second a marvelously precise sai cha cut that cleanly severs Jango Fett's head in mid-motion. We also see none of the acrobaticism of Maul in Windu's repertoire - he uses straightline movement to swiftly close with the enemy rather than Maul's furious whirlwind of blows.

IMHO it's like the idiotic claim that Qui-Gon Jinn uses Form IV; unworkable upon closer scrutiny.

Maul and Mace cannot use the same style; their weapons are drastically different (even when Maul's has only one blade extended, the length of the hilt makes it still a significantly different weapon to wield).

This is common sense for anyone who knows anything about melee weapons.

LFL's writers are fucking stupid.

Illuminatus Primus wrote:Maul and Mace cannot use the same style; their weapons are drastically different (even when Maul's has only one blade extended, the length of the hilt makes it still a significantly different weapon to wield).

This is common sense for anyone who knows anything about melee weapons.

LFL's writers are fucking stupid.

Indeed. My point was that even taking this into account and arguing that the style had different substyles for different weapons configurations, there's still scant similarity between Windu's and Maul's style.

A pity, too, since the basic system potentially explained a lot of what we saw on film.

Mace would most likely take this one, as he is rated as the most powerul Jedi next to Yoda and the best swordsman in the Order.

PS, what do you mean by LFL?

Illuminatus Primus wrote:Maul and Mace cannot use the same style; their weapons are drastically different (even when Maul's has only one blade extended, the length of the hilt makes it still a significantly different weapon to wield).

In that case it's like a bastard sword...