StarDestroyer.Net BBS

Along with the late J.W. Rinzler and Nerdonymous, Rick Worley has done more than just about anyone to debunk a lot of the lies, nonsense, character assassination and just plain stupidity from certain "fans" who have been dumping on George Lucas since 1997.

Yes, it's long (like the Nerdonymous video linked above), but then it usually takes more effort to clean up a load of horseshit that it does to crap it out.



This video shows that everyone from classical painters to novelists to movie makers have not only altered their own works but have done so without twenty-five years of nerd rage in response.

Who's the more nerdy the nerd who spends 25 years complaining or the nerds who spend 25 years refuting the nerds complaining?

I agree. I loved the special editions and never understood the rage of people against them

My main bitch about the Special Edition Movies is the one that got the most Nerd Rage.

HAN SHOT FIRST.

LadyTevar wrote: ↑2022-07-23 12:31pm My main bitch about the Special Edition Movies is the one that got the most Nerd Rage.

HAN SHOT FIRST.

Yes I that was one thing they did wrong. It looked so artificial when Freedom shot first.

I preferred the old version of that scene, too -but it's two seconds in a 2-hour movie and not worth fretting over. Getting rid of the matte lines, which were a real eyesore in the older edition, more than made up for it.

The point of Worley's video (and one I agree with) is that artists have every right to alter their own works, and just because certain "fans" get all bent out of shape over them doesn't mean the artist is incompetent or needs to be restrained.

Well, that and ridiculing Chris Gore, Alexandre Philippe, the Red Letter Retard and others who make it cringeworthy to be a fan of any of the movies. Especially the part at 3:26:17 where Philippe and Stoklasshole bring up the Mona Lisa and think they've just "owned" George Lucas when in fact they show how they know even less about paintings than they do about movies. They're so smugly stupid that I almost feel embarrassed on their behalf -like that episode of Cheers where Kirstie Alley is trying to impress guests in a restaurant by pretending to work at the big-shot law firm of Emerson, Lake & Palmer.

Indeed. The addition of scenes like the Most Eisley space port, the millennium Falcon breakout from Mos Eisley, the X Wings flying past Yavin during the attack on the Death Star, the millennium Falcon flying into Cloud City make my eyes very happy

Crazedwraith wrote: ↑2022-07-23 07:25am Who's the more nerdy the nerd who spends 25 years complaining or the nerds who spend 25 years refuting the nerds complaining?

Which one has ten thousand posts on a message board dedicated to proving who would win in a fight between Star Wars and Star Trek?

Ralin wrote: ↑2022-07-23 05:03pm

Crazedwraith wrote: ↑2022-07-23 07:25am Who's the more nerdy the nerd who spends 25 years complaining or the nerds who spend 25 years refuting the nerds complaining?

Which one has ten thousand posts on a message board dedicated to proving who would win in a fight between Star Wars and Star Trek?

This is why I love all nerds

Spice Runner wrote: ↑2022-07-23 05:00pm Indeed. The addition of scenes like the Most Eisley space port, the millennium Falcon breakout from Mos Eisley, the X Wings flying past Yavin during the attack on the Death Star, the millennium Falcon flying into Cloud City make my eyes very happy

The new version of the Cloud City that actually has windows and scenery outside those windows is also much better.

Elfdart wrote: ↑2022-07-23 04:55pmThe point of Worley's video (and one I agree with) is that artists have every right to alter their own works, and just because certain "fans" get all bent out of shape over them doesn't mean the artist is incompetent or needs to be restrained.

Artists have every right to alter their own works. Fans have every right to criticize those alterations.

This, for example, was fucking stupid...

Broomstick wrote: ↑2022-07-23 06:35pm

Spice Runner wrote: ↑2022-07-23 05:00pm Indeed. The addition of scenes like the Most Eisley space port, the millennium Falcon breakout from Mos Eisley, the X Wings flying past Yavin during the attack on the Death Star, the millennium Falcon flying into Cloud City make my eyes very happy

The new version of the Cloud City that actually has windows and scenery outside those windows is also much better.

Oh yeah they make cloud city all the more realistic

Spice Runner wrote: ↑2022-07-23 07:39pm

Broomstick wrote: ↑2022-07-23 06:35pm

Spice Runner wrote: ↑2022-07-23 05:00pm Indeed. The addition of scenes like the Most Eisley space port, the millennium Falcon breakout from Mos Eisley, the X Wings flying past Yavin during the attack on the Death Star, the millennium Falcon flying into Cloud City make my eyes very happy

The new version of the Cloud City that actually has windows and scenery outside those windows is also much better.

Oh yeah they make cloud city all the more realistic

I don't know about realistic, but they certainly looked better, and more in line what Lucas, Kershner, Barry, Suschitzky and Reynolds had in mind before Gary Kurtz overspent and nearly killed the entire production.

The only change that really bother me (and the only one I really remember) was the 'HAN SHOT FIRST' Issue. That's something I could see Disney as they acquired the franchise demanding in their limitless lack of wisdom to make it more family friendly, but what was lucas trying to achieve back then?

My main issue with the revised Greedo scene is that it just didn't look good, and they tried several times to improve it.

It kinda ruins Han's development. His whole arc is growing from a selfish rogue to a much more selfless hero. Having it be self defense undermines that, largely because it feels Lucas was worried "oh I don't want people to see Han as "gasp" a BAD GUY so I'm going to change it to make him likable."

The other issue is that it's needless. Greedo was clearly going to kill him, so Han shooting first could easily be self defense. And yet Lucas kept saying "oh you want Han to be a murderer". That's a rather irritating straw man argument.

Those are the main reasons; it undermined Han's character development from a selfish amoral rogue to a genuine hero AND (considering that the other guy was already planning to murder him) doesn't really do anything accept come off as Lucas trying to make Han more palatable in the beginning.

Edit: Elfdart, PLEASE don't throw around the word retard so casually. It's basically a slur at this point.

Batman wrote: ↑2022-07-23 11:03pm The only change that really bother me (and the only one I really remember) was the 'HAN SHOT FIRST' Issue. That's something I could see Disney as they acquired the franchise demanding in their limitless lack of wisdom to make it more family friendly, but what was lucas trying to achieve back then?

I suspect it may have been something like a ratings issue. Because Star Wars was originally made before PG-13, it was originally fine but in 1997 to keep the original rating he had to change it.

Also, I'd like to thank Elfdart for wasting several hours of my time this weekend.

Also, this has to be the best relatively short analysis of the sequel trilogy I have seen. In effect, it is an anti-trilogy:

Shamus Young made this point. George Burns lived to be 100 even though he smoked like a chimney. Doesn't mean smoking is healthy for you.

The Sequels fell into the trap of "oh we don't really have to plan things out, the OT got lucky when they winged it." Except a.) The OT was never meant to be a trilogy. Lucas only decided on that after Empire Strikes Back was so utterly brutal to make it wore him out. Also b.) When Lucas did change things, he had a three year gap between them, which gave him time to refine things more than the sequels, which just pumped them out in shorter periods of time and c.) even than Lucas got lucky that some things fell into place (Vader being Anakin can be reconciled with some of the lines of dialogue) or had somewhat of a reason (Luke and Leia being related is odd, but at the same time it resolves the story and came about for understandable reasons. Lucas was burned out and wanted to wrap things up quickly.) Lucas was also the one at the helm the whole way through, ensuring some consistency.

By contrast the sequels KNEW they were going to be a full three movie story arc from the beginning, had far less time, and didn't even have a consistent guide.

Darth Yan wrote: ↑2022-07-24 02:00am It kinda ruins Han's development. His whole arc is growing from a selfish rogue to a much more selfless hero. Having it be self defense undermines that, largely because it feels Lucas was worried "oh I don't want people to see Han as "gasp" a BAD GUY so I'm going to change it to make him likable."

The other issue is that it's needless. Greedo was clearly going to kill him, so Han shooting first could easily be self defense. And yet Lucas kept saying "oh you want Han to be a murderer". That's a rather irritating straw man argument.

Aside from criticism from Pauline Kael, the only time Lucas paid much attention to critics is when he was accused of showing too much violence in what is a Saturday matinee movie. He went so far as to consult child psychiatrists/psychologists about Luke getting his hand cut off by his own father -to make sure he wasn't going to traumatize the 10-year-old boys the film was made for. Apparently, as he got older, Lucas didn't want there to be any kind of ambiguity about whether Solo was justified in blowing Greedo away -to the point where even people who can't read the subtitles are shown that Han had no choice.

Those are the main reasons; it undermined Han's character development from a selfish amoral rogue to a genuine hero AND (considering that the other guy was already planning to murder him) doesn't really do anything accept come off as Lucas trying to make Han more palatable in the beginning.

Han's character isn't changed half an iota. Greedo, on the other hand, is made to look like twice as much of a total fumbledick, but stooges who clown themselves by being inept are common in movies:



I don't think the speed and accuracy of Greedo's trigger finger is important to the movie.

Edit: Elfdart, PLEASE don't throw around the word retard so casually. It's basically a slur at this point.

Would you prefer cretinous?

Adam Reynolds wrote: ↑2022-07-24 02:17amAlso, I'd like to thank Elfdart for wasting several hours of my time this weekend.

Anytime.

Elfdart wrote: ↑2022-07-24 11:25am

Darth Yan wrote: ↑2022-07-24 02:00am It kinda ruins Han's development. His whole arc is growing from a selfish rogue to a much more selfless hero. Having it be self defense undermines that, largely because it feels Lucas was worried "oh I don't want people to see Han as "gasp" a BAD GUY so I'm going to change it to make him likable."

The other issue is that it's needless. Greedo was clearly going to kill him, so Han shooting first could easily be self defense. And yet Lucas kept saying "oh you want Han to be a murderer". That's a rather irritating straw man argument.

Aside from criticism from Pauline Kael, the only time Lucas paid much attention to critics is when he was accused of showing too much violence in what is a Saturday matinee movie. He went so far as to consult child psychiatrists/psychologists about Luke getting his hand cut off by his own father -to make sure he wasn't going to traumatize the 10-year-old boys the film was made for. Apparently, as he got older, Lucas didn't want there to be any kind of ambiguity about whether Solo was justified in blowing Greedo away -to the point where even people who can't read the subtitles are shown that Han had no choice.

Those are the main reasons; it undermined Han's character development from a selfish amoral rogue to a genuine hero AND (considering that the other guy was already planning to murder him) doesn't really do anything accept come off as Lucas trying to make Han more palatable in the beginning.

Han's character isn't changed half an iota. Greedo, on the other hand, is made to look like twice as much of a total fumbledick, but stooges who clown themselves by being inept are common in movies:



I don't think the speed and accuracy of Greedo's trigger finger is important to the movie.

Edit: Elfdart, PLEASE don't throw around the word retard so casually. It's basically a slur at this point.

Would you prefer cretinous?

Adam Reynolds wrote: ↑2022-07-24 02:17amAlso, I'd like to thank Elfdart for wasting several hours of my time this weekend.

Anytime.

He did actually include Lando after people argued that there was a lack of Black people. But in any case making Han shoot first was needless. Again, Greedo was clearly planning to kill him so there's no real ambiguity regardless. It also suits Han's characterization as an amoral rogue.

And yes cretinous would be better. Retard is basically a slur against people who have mental disabilities.

Is there any real coverage of what exactly the Lucas sequel trilogy was supposed to have been? I really am curious now based on the first two Nerdonymous videos. I had no idea that Lucas actually had some serious ideas to the point that there was a script in development even before the Disney buy and that Abrams largely deserves most of the blame for the direction things wound up taking.

Over time, I've stopped really caring about the various revisions made, and started to just treat them as different iterations of a singular piece, because it's not as though a new version stops a previous one from existing.

People got emotionally attached to the ANH 1977 release, before Lucas upgraded it to the 1997 model, and so on. I think the 2004 version is what is on Disney Plus. Each was of its time.

Gandalf wrote: ↑2022-07-24 06:19pm Over time, I've stopped really caring about the various revisions made, and started to just treat them as different iterations of a singular piece, because it's not as though a new version stops a previous one from existing.

People got emotionally attached to the ANH 1977 release, before Lucas upgraded it to the 1997 model, and so on. I think the 2004 version is what is on Disney Plus. Each was of its time.

A lot of the changes are for the better. Others are just kind of unnecessary. Did we really need the extended musical number in Return of the Jedi?
This site comes it up. Some of the changes were fine, others were just kinda eh, others were painfully stupid. For instance, cleaning up the rancor scenes in Return of the Jedi? Fine, laudable even. The extended band sequence at the beginning? What the hell was Lucas thinking?

https://www.chefelf.com/starwars/ep4se_1.php
https://www.chefelf.com/starwars/ep5se_1.php
https://www.chefelf.com/starwars/ep6se_1.php

Technical effect changes make sense looked at through a necessity lens. Removing a matte line or editing out strings makes sense.

But for other things like the Jabba's Palace music sequence I just look at as Lucas wanting more spectacle in the films. It's like the X-Wing takeoff sequence. It doesn't add to the story, or remove a negative, but it's some more spectacle for better or worse. Like all films, some things hit and some miss.