StarDestroyer.Net BBS

All right, for us to analyze sci-fi, we usually take the angle that we're seeing the equivalent of historical film footage, and it should be analyzed thusly, right?

How, then, do we rationalize the appearance of ghosts in SW? Or Luke's dream-sequence in the cave/tree at Dagobah?
Are these Force phenomena detectable by some sort of instrumentation, allowing us to see them on film? Did Ben just alter Luke's mind to make him think he saw these visions, or did he actually appear? If so, how did that happen? Are these 'dramatizations' so to speak, and not as real as the others? If we allow such a concession, where do we draw the line between suspended-disbelief-reality and suspended-disbelief-fantasy?
How the hell do we rationalize Luke's encounter with Vader on Dagobah?

I'm curious as to how youse guys personally rationalize these scenes. I, for one, end up just sort of turning off my brain for those scenes, because all my attempts at rationalization lead to conclusions that I'm not happy with. But I wonder if we can reach a palatable solution.

I guess I'd lean towards the ghosts actually appearing; it leads to the fewest number of stylistic aberrations throughout the films (i.e. everything else is supposedly really happening, this should be too). But I am at a loss as to explaining how that effect would be achieved, in-universe. Also, did R2 see the ghosts or didn't he?

An important point to remember when thinking about it is that Yoda and Luke heard Ben say the same things at the same time, so it can't just be individual hallucinations.

Robert Treder wrote:I guess I'd lean towards the ghosts actually appearing; it leads to the fewest number of stylistic aberrations throughout the films (i.e. everything else is supposedly really happening, this should be too). But I am at a loss as to explaining how that effect would be achieved, in-universe. Also, did R2 see the ghosts or didn't he?

Dark Force Rising says no to this. When Luke mentions Ben in context of the ghost thing as a possible cause of C'baoth's insanity, R2 beeps out something that I infer as something along the lines of "Is Ben the one you were talking to on Dagobah?" To which Luke says yes.

I would say, these are "visions" only force sensitives can see, and we the audience are "privileged" to be able to see what a FS person would see if they were there.

So R2 didn't see the ghosts, and Leia may or may not have seen them at the end of ROTJ (it was established she was FS), that I don't know.

They seem to be subjective to the person whos to recieve them. In Truce At Bakura Leia does see and talk with the Force Presence of Anakin Skywalker. Also later in EU books Luke speculates that the ghosts of the other Outbound Flight jedi are following the Mad Jedi Master.

Well if you want to dig up the EU, the Jedi spirits in the Valley of the Jedi (Dark Forces books) were able to "contact" and even drive Imperial officers mad (non-force sensitives couldn't handle their influence very well)... much like poltergeists or traditional "ghosts" you see in other shows.