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As part of the Project I am doing at the moment, the complete order of battles for all of the empires military, I have started the Stormtrooper OB so far I have the following done. I would like your opinions and ideas on my thoughts at the bottom.


Based on a Legion on an ISD.

Squad has a total of 9 Troopers commanded by a Sergeant.

Platoon has 4 Squads and a 4-man combat command section. 1 Lieutenant, 1 Communications Trooper, 2 One man Medium Repeater Blaster Detail with 2 Medium Repeaters. Total of 40 men. Capacity of an AT-AT.

Company has 5 Platoons and a 4-man combat command section. 1 Captain, 1 Communications Trooper, 2 One Man Medium Repeater Blaster Detail with 2 Medium Repeaters. Total 204 men.

Battalion has 4 Company and a 4-man combat command section. 1 Major, 1 Communications Trooper, 1 Two man Heavy Repeater Blaster Detail with 1 Heavy Repeater. Total 820 Men.

Regiment has 4 Battalions and a 6-man combat command section. 1 Lieutenant-Colonel, 2 Communications Troopers, 1 One man Medium Repeater Blaster Detail and 1 Two man Heavy Repeater blaster detail with 1 Medium and 1 Heavy repeater. Total 3286 Men

Legion has 3 Regiments and an 8-man combat command section. 1 Colonel, 3 Communications Troopers, 2 2man Heavy Repeater Details with 2 Heavy Repeaters.
Total 9866 Men

20 AT-AT in 2 Battalions. 5 Crew each, Total 100 Crew.
30 AT-ST in 1 Battalion. 2 Crew each, Total 60 Crew.
100 Speeder Bikes in 1 Battalion Attached to AT-AT’s. 1 Crew each, Total 100 Crew.


The Total for the Legion on an ISD is 10,126 Troops and Crew. It is bigger then the stated capacity but that’s the closest I could get.

Now in Official sources it is stated that Sand troopers, Snow troopers etc are different elite divisions. Is this viable? In the films it does not give the impression of this, with the exception of the Scout troopers and the Royal guard. Could Stormtroopers be trained for any environment and just use the appropriate environmental suite when necessary?

The following is a list of known types of Stormtroopers:

Stormtroopers-General Troops
Sand Troopers-Desert Terrain
Snow Troopers-Cold Terrain
Sea Troopers-Aquatic Terrain
Space Troopers-Zero Gravity
Scout Troopers-Scouts
Air Troopers-Aerial Terrain
Tunnel Troopers-Sub-Terrain
Rock Troopers-Mountain Terrain
Fire Troopers-Magma Terrain
Rad Troopers-Radiation Zone
Shadow Troopers-Storm Commodoes.
Royal Guard

The troops I can see as proper elite divisions would be Scout Troopers, Shadow Troopers, The Imperial Guard, Space and Air Troopers. The others would only need different armour. Sand Troopers would have Light weight extra cooling, Fire Troopers would have Heavy weight extra cooling, Snow Troopers would have Extra Heating, and Sea Troopers hwould ave Extra breathing and propulsion. Tunnel troops would have extra breathing and energy rock cutters, Rock Troopers would have climbing gear armour, and Rad Troops would have extra radiation shielded armour. The 5 elite Divisions I mentioned above would need more training in my opinion.

Any thoughts on the matter?



Thanks

Lee

It looks pretty good so far. Only a few thing I can think of off the top of my head. The basic element you have is only nine troops, this would mean three fire teams of three. You should increase it to a squad of atleast twelve, to give you fire teams of four. Basic combat tactics alow for you and a buddy to work together and cover each other. With only three, you have one guy out with no one to work in concert with. The buddy system. While two man teams are not officaly an element in the infantry(except special circumstances ie... sniper-spoter), they truley are the basis for all that follows. Besides nobody likes a third wheel.
Also when it comes to special or heavy weapons you could use one platoon of the five in a company as a weapons platoon. Four infantry platoon with a support or weapons platoon. One squad with repeater blasters or E-webs, one squad with demo or portable anti-armor weapons, with the third being maybe another E-web or comunications, or HQ element, soforth and such. It can be used in the battalion level too, having a heavy weapons company. One scout platoon with speeder bikes, one heavy repeater platoon, and so on.
And the special troopers would only need to be special in an extreme enviroment, like zero gee troops, rad troops, and fire troops. These could be Regimental assets, formed in there own companies in a Special Operations Battalion. The Royal Guards would be a detachment in the highest order of the military.

It looks pretty good, I am also writing something for the Imperial Order of Battle for a Star Wars Chat I got too, I haven't done the Army yet, almost done the Starfighter Corps and Imperial Navy.

Knife wrote:It looks pretty good so far. Only a few thing I can think of off the top of my head. The basic element you have is only nine troops, this would mean three fire teams of three. You should increase it to a squad of atleast twelve, to give you fire teams of four. Basic combat tactics alow for you and a buddy to work together and cover each other. With only three, you have one guy out with no one to work in concert with. The buddy system. While two man teams are not officaly an element in the infantry(except special circumstances ie... sniper-spoter), they truley are the basis for all that follows. Besides nobody likes a third wheel.
Also when it comes to special or heavy weapons you could use one platoon of the five in a company as a weapons platoon. Four infantry platoon with a support or weapons platoon. One squad with repeater blasters or E-webs, one squad with demo or portable anti-armor weapons, with the third being maybe another E-web or comunications, or HQ element, soforth and such. It can be used in the battalion level too, having a heavy weapons company. One scout platoon with speeder bikes, one heavy repeater platoon, and so on.
And the special troopers would only need to be special in an extreme enviroment, like zero gee troops, rad troops, and fire troops. These could be Regimental assets, formed in there own companies in a Special Operations Battalion. The Royal Guards would be a detachment in the highest order of the military.

I will go into a more detailed composition when I have the first vesion complete. I agree with the Elite divisions only being needed on certain missions, so they would be attached when needed. I think it makes sense that Space, Air and Scout troops are the elite divisions and the Shadow and Royal guards are the best of the best. The others dont need that much more training and could just use different armour. That would enable an ISD to have more troops avialible for each mission instead of a small carried selection. If they where assault a desert planet, ie Tattooine they would be able to use the whole legion, where as if only say a battalion were dedicated sandtroopers it limits there ability to assault places.

I watched the entire OT, counting the size of the groups that stormtroopers appeared in (trying to fix the size of a stormtrooper squad). Unfortunately, stormies run around in groups of 8 (or 4 man 1/2 squads) about as often as they run around in troups of 10 (or 5 man 1/2 squads). I'm currently leaning towards 10 since that is the size of Clone Trooper squads.

One quote that I found today. In ROTJ, the Emperor proclaims that he has an entire legion of troops on Endor and, in the novel, when he orders Jerrjorod to destroy Endor if the shield generator is destroyed, Jerrjorod protests, says that there are "several battalions" on Endor. This would indicate that a legion is closer to a Regiment than a division (as you place it in your first post). I don't like this but canon is canon.

Finally, I'm not particularly fond of the whole "specially trained" sandtrooper bit. In ANH, the Devastator follows the Tantive IV to Tatooine so there was no reason for it to have "sandtroopers" aboard. Also, in the ESB Radio Drama, Vader tell Veers to "equip your Stormtrooper for cold weather warfare" also indicating that these were plain jane stormtroopers in different uniforms.


Aaron

Captain Lennox wrote:It looks pretty good, I am also writing something for the Imperial Order of Battle for a Star Wars Chat I got too, I haven't done the Army yet, almost done the Starfighter Corps and Imperial Navy.

The order of battles that im doing have some basic parts from the Imperial Sourcebook, and other offical sources but quite a bit is not. If you intrested in more info email me.

Basic enviromental situations are more of a uniform and equipment problem than a training one, sure some training is required but keeping a deployed unit like the stormtroopers on a ISD flexable is perferable of over specialization of you forces. The forces on Tatooine may have been a special desert division some what like the US 10th Mountain Div. but the training required to operate in a desert is not that hard to implement on regular troops. Not to mention the hassels of deploying a enviromentaly specialize unit to a proper place from their base of ops. Once again they could be, but more likely they are more flexible than that and only really extreme enviroments are for specialist.
As for the weapons platoons and weapons companies, they do not need to be the exact body count as a infantry platoon or company. The TO@E of a Marine Weapons Platoon was.....
Platoon Commader
Platoon SGT
one section of machine guns comprised of 6 gun teams of 3 individuals plus one section leader
one section of SMAW's comprised of 6 two man teams plus a section leader
one section of 60mm mortars comprised of 3 three man teams plus a section leader
This is just what the USMC does, the TO@E can vary depending on the requirements of the said unit. A weapons platoon or company for the stormtroopers could be larger or smaller depending on the weapons required or needed to support the regular joe stormy.

Executor wrote:

Captain Lennox wrote:It looks pretty good, I am also writing something for the Imperial Order of Battle for a Star Wars Chat I got too, I haven't done the Army yet, almost done the Starfighter Corps and Imperial Navy.

The order of battles that im doing have some basic parts from the Imperial Sourcebook, and other offical sources but quite a bit is not. If you intrested in more info email me.

Yeah, I got the Imperial Sourcebook from Shep a month ago, and it's a Division on an ISD, virtully same thing, different time.

All of the personnel associated with Death Squadron are considered elite units, much like the Herman Goering Panzer Division, in that people are promoted into them and they are considered fast tracks to promotions. Thus, the snowtroopers seen on Hoth were elite units, but the Desert Sands forces were probably elite only in the sense that "normal" Marine units are elite. They probably have a sense of espirit de corps, but it is possible that they are not actually units that get to select their personnel and get first choice in terms of equipment and training. More likely, the Sand troopers are seen as just regular forces by the rest of the Imperial forces.

Master of Ossus wrote:All of the personnel associated with Death Squadron are considered elite units, much like the Herman Goering Panzer Division, in that people are promoted into them and they are considered fast tracks to promotions. Thus, the snowtroopers seen on Hoth were elite units, but the Desert Sands forces were probably elite only in the sense that "normal" Marine units are elite. They probably have a sense of espirit de corps, but it is possible that they are not actually units that get to select their personnel and get first choice in terms of equipment and training. More likely, the Sand troopers are seen as just regular forces by the rest of the Imperial forces.

Thats true, heres another thought, maybe all regular troops have limited training on different terrains. There then exist the very elite divisions that are made up off troopers that excel at that particular terrain.

This would mean that an ISD attacking a Ice planet like Hoth or Tattooine could land a whole legion of Snow or Sand troops, the regular Stormtroopers with terrain specific armour. While a heavier assault would use the elite divisions. This would fit with ESB where the Executor could conceivable carry entire regiments of each different elite troops.

True but the elite troops were probably just recruited into Death Squadron based on ability and loyalty, they do not have to have any special training above and beyond the norm, just reconized as the best currently in the ranks.
And the Dessert troops could be just normal stormtroopers that got deployed on Tatooine and then recieved special dessert training. Probably the same with the snow troops on Hoth. Once General Veers got word of the target world and did his tenitive planning he told his troops to start boneing up on artic survival and tatics. Having been trained already in most enviroments, the troops just more or less reviewed their shit, and preped for a ice world.

Just thought of something else Executor. The original nine to a sqd could be two teams of four and a sqd leader, so it would keep the buddy system intact too. Once again just my read on it, hope I helped some.

Elite soldiers are always defined as ones that have exceptional ability. They are probably graded on a multitude of factors, including loyalty, strength, speed, intelligence, marksmanship, leadership abilities, and stamina. They are almost certainly outfitted with the best equipment, which is supported circumstantially by their use of both snowsuits and AT-AT walkers on Hoth, while in the same movie (and, presumably, without the chance to refit at a starbase or similar), used pretty standard suits during their occupation of Bespin.

I have always thought of the Desert Sands division as analogous to the Afrika Corps, in that it was not always meant to be an elite division, but it kind of turned out that way in the end, developing its own mystique and esprit de corps.

Incidentally, in the Tale of Davin Felth much is revealed about stormtrooper training. They are tested in various environments, and trained to operate in a multitude of conditions, but only those who test into special programs are trained to work in truly difficult environments like Zero-G, or as drivers/gunners for AT-AT walkers.

I might be mistaken, but I think we are in agreement then Master of Ossus. Elite can be special training or battle experience or a high esprit de corps.

Knife wrote:Just thought of something else Executor. The original nine to a sqd could be two teams of four and a sqd leader, so it would keep the buddy system intact too. Once again just my read on it, hope I helped some.

Thats is how i based it, I had a basic squad equiped for combat compised of the following:

Commander: Sergeant
Fire Team of 4: Fire Team leader Corporal or Lance Corporal and 3 Privates each.
Every Trooper armed with a Blaster Rifle except 1 private in each fireteam who is armed with a Light Repeating blaster.

Radiation Troopers? Not doubting your statement but where do we see radiation troopers. Could you name your source?

Talon Karrde wrote:Radiation Troopers? Not doubting your statement but where do we see radiation troopers. Could you name your source?

Radiation Troopers are mentioned in the Thrawn trilogy sourcebook Page 129 and Galaxy guide 9 Fragments of the Rim. I dont have state for them tho, maybe someone else has