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Okay, okay more prattle. I am currently listening to the Radio Dramas. In RotJ 6 of 6 Blood of a Jedi, Leia says to Han 'How can the Ewoks hold thier own to the Empire.' Han replies, 'Thier turf, thier ambush. Odds are in thier favor.' Just to throw that 'canon' reference out there. Especially since Trekkies like to yell, 'Strormtroopers get beat by teddy bears!' Yeah, but there were handing the Ewoks thier own asses until Chewie caputred that AT ST and the sheild bunker went up.

Luck and suprise can often save a man, if his courage holds! A paraphrase, but accurate enough.

The Klingon Empire seemed to have trouble with Tribbles, which are in all ways weaker than Ewoks.

DG_Cal_Wright wrote:Okay, okay more prattle. I am currently listening to the Radio Dramas. In RotJ 6 of 6 Blood of a Jedi, Leia says to Han 'How can the Ewoks hold thier own to the Empire.' Han replies, 'Thier turf, thier ambush. Odds are in thier favor.' Just to throw that 'canon' reference out there. Especially since Trekkies like to yell, 'Strormtroopers get beat by teddy bears!' Yeah, but there were handing the Ewoks thier own asses until Chewie caputred that AT ST and the sheild bunker went up.

For the reference of any Trekkies who are yet to realise the inherent advantages the Ewoks held:

US vs Viet Cong
USSR vs Muhjaheddin

To get through to a Treky is pretty hard. If they dont get something in SW they think its dumb. Yeah like the Treky idea of once Earth started to explore space then the had trouble with Klingon and what not, i would think powerful empires like them would have discoverd Earth long ago.

Anyways, lets see Ewoks, blend in with thier environment, can see the Empires Stormies easily with their white armor, have hidden weapons. The Empire stood no chance.

plus were can i get the Radio Dramatation of all the original SW movies. And should i get the regular novelization of Empire and Jedi or buy the Radio Dramitation novalization?

Tychu wrote:To get through to a Treky is pretty hard. If they dont get something in SW they think its dumb. Yeah like the Treky idea of once Earth started to explore space then the had trouble with Klingon and what not, i would think powerful empires like them would have discoverd Earth long ago.

Anyways, lets see Ewoks, blend in with thier environment, can see the Empires Stormies easily with their white armor, have hidden weapons. The Empire stood no chance.

plus were can i get the Radio Dramatation of all the original SW movies. And should i get the regular novelization of Empire and Jedi or buy the Radio Dramitation novalization?

You should get the novelisations to all the movies. R.A, Salvatore can make a really big bore of AotC, but either way. The Radio Dramas are currently running on 365live.com. Just search Star Wars. Theres the dramas and the french talk radio show.

Some of you guys are so pathetic. You are trying to come up with some sort of excuse to cover the Empire's pathetic attempt to defeat the Ewoks on the ground. If the Stormtroopers' armor could not defeat rocks and other primitive melee weapons how can you expect them to defeat any competent military? The only reason why they were able to defeat the rebels in any ground engagement was because they had superior numbers. Furthermore, if *one* AT-ST that fell into the Rebels hands was all that it took to win the battle, the Empire is absolutely screwed if they ever have to face a military force with even decent armor capabilities. The fact is that the Stormtroopers have never proven themselves to be the awesome soldiers that many of you would like to believe. The US Army vs. Vietcong/NVA is a poor example because the United States never lost a pitched battle with them. We lost the war due to other factors, but we always won the battles. That is hardly the record of the Stormtroopers. One of the reasons the US won all of those battles is because of some decent tactics and strategy. That is something the Empire sorely lacks...

Commander LeoRo wrote:Some of you guys are so pathetic. You are trying to come up with some sort of excuse to cover the Empire's pathetic attempt to defeat the Ewoks on the ground. If the Stormtroopers' armor could not defeat rocks and other primitive melee weapons how can you expect them to defeat any competent military?

Okay, the armor of the typical US Marine (a kevlar flak jacket) can stop AK-47 rounds. Pretty decent, eh? Yet, if I take a baseball bat to that Marine and beat him continuously over the head or the body with it . . . he's going down. Also, if I throw big heavy 10-20 pound rocks on his head from five feet up . . . he may have a helmet, but he's going down.

Commander LeoRo wrote: The only reason why they were able to defeat the rebels in any ground engagement was because they had superior numbers. Furthermore, if *one* AT-ST that fell into the Rebels hands was all that it took to win the battle, the Empire is absolutely screwed if they ever have to face a military force with even decent armor capabilities. The fact is that the Stormtroopers have never proven themselves to be the awesome soldiers that many of you would like to believe.

Forgetting the swift capture of the Tantive IV in ANH? Or the swift capture of Echo Base in TESB?

In both of those cases the Empire had a huge advantage. An ISD was chasing the Tantive IV and the Empire had the Rebels outnumbered on Hoth. The Imperials were lucky that the Rebels didn't send a few proton torpedoes at the walkers.

If the Rebels had the Torps to spare also there were only about a HUNDRED Troopers at the entrance vs a few hundred cammoflaged foes who knew the terrain and were aremd with close combat weapons

Tychu wrote:The Empire stood no chance.

I think thats going a little far. After the initial ambush the tide was definately turning back toward the Empire. Chewie's capture of the AT-ST definately played a major role in the Empire's defeat.

Commander LeoRo wrote: Some of you guys are so pathetic. You are trying to come up with some sort of excuse to cover the Empire's pathetic attempt to defeat the Ewoks on the ground.

So to you, canon is "some sort of excuse", eh?

If the Stormtroopers' armor could not defeat rocks and other primitive melee weapons how can you expect them to defeat any competent military?

You can be wearing armour made out of diamond, but you will still get the shit pounded out of you if you get smacked by clubs wielded by stronger than average creatures and have torso sized rocks hitting you in the head (the former is likely KO you and possibly give you a good concussion, the latter is likely to result in a broken neck).

The only reason why they were able to defeat the rebels in any ground engagement was because they had superior numbers.

So what if you use superior numbers to win? Seeing the general accuracy of snap shots by both the Alliance and Imperial troops, superior numbers equals better chance at winning with the least casualties. What? You think soldiers have to be like Rambos (aka one-man-armies) to get the job done?

Furthermore, if *one* AT-ST that fell into the Rebels hands was all that it took to win the battle, the Empire is absolutely screwed if they ever have to face a military force with even decent armor capabilities.

The capture of that AT-ST was one thing in a chain of events that gave the Rebels a chance to trick the Imperials into letting some of their people in through the back door. And personally, I would like to see any modern tank (and many sci-fi tanks) try their luck against an AT-AT (not an All-Terrain Scout-Transport).

The fact is that the Stormtroopers have never proven themselves to be the awesome soldiers that many of you would like to believe. The US Army vs. Vietcong/NVA is a poor example because the United States never lost a pitched battle with them. We lost the war due to other factors, but we always won the battles. That is hardly the record of the Stormtroopers. One of the reasons the US won all of those battles is because of some decent tactics and strategy. That is something the Empire sorely lacks...

Please, you sound like you believe that the Empire is the only people who has ever lost because of the enemy having the element of surprise, homeground advantage, large number of traps already set, and suffering from intelligence (information, not IQ) failure, complacency because of the intelligence failure, and the enemy having massive character shield bonus.

Ewok must be alot like chimps, anyone that ever handle a chimpaze can tell you that they are very strong and can easily wrestle a man down.. But no excuse aside, the Imperial lost to the Ewok was a pitiful...

Yet I match Ewok against Klingons any day, and my money is on the Ewoks.

This commander leoro or whatever he is, is apparently a troll who likes to insult and flame, he should be watched closely, with the finger hovering on the ban button.

Armor designed for one type of weapon does not mean it is ideal for all types of weapons. Stormtrooper armor would be designed to protect against energy weapons would it not. That is the primary weapon in starwars. Sure it would offer some protection from kenitic weapons but not massive rocks and repeated blows. The armor could have prevented the trooper from cuts and bruises from the blows, but the sheer shock of a rock dropped on his head dropped him. Not shock as in "oh my gosh" but shock as in "wave".
And those who discount the element of suprise are not being realistic. Suprise tends to imobilize the command structure because they are... well suprised. The bigger the suprise the longer it take you to get organized on the threat. After the initial suprise, the ferocity of the attack can also lead to the disorganization of the enemy. Granted the Ewoks had no hope to win a organized battle with the Imperials, it was more of a hit and run type raid. To me it seems they even had a dedicated rear guard element to protect the main raiding force as it retreated.....I mean strategicly displaced.
All I got from the Ewok raid durring the Battle of Endor was a new ally tring to dirupt the Imperials long enough for the Rebels to escape. They were probably amazed that the rebels started to fight and not run.

I'm sorry HIS DIVINE SHADOW, did you have something important to add to this conversation? Or did you just want to whine a little bit?

Commander LeoRo wrote:I'm sorry HIS DIVINE SHADOW, did you have something important to add to this conversation? Or did you just want to whine a little bit?

Let's see, the only thing you contributed was an insipid inflammatory post filled with stupidness, it's you who is whining here.

I have brought up some good points that some of you guys don't like to talk about because it challenges your "religious" faith in the Empire.

Incidentally, the only equalizing factor between the Klingons and Ewoks would be that the Klingons are quite a bit stronger than humans. They may be able to handle Ewoks in hand to hand combat. I don't think they would win though.

Commander LeoRo wrote:I have brought up some good points that some of you guys don't like to talk about because it challenges your "religious" faith in the Empire.

Ancient repetition and rehashing is not good points, your incessant whing about religious faith also shows how much of a pathetic and sad flaming troll you who are obvoiusly suffers from some kind sci-fi penis envy and you're trying to make your chosen favorite to measure up a little better.
Standard tactic really...

There's something I have wondered about ever since I first saw ROTJ.

And that would be just how a couple of logs swinging from a tree could smash in the sides of an armored combat vehicle??
Just imagine that scene taking place with an M1A2 Abrams instead of an AT-AT. After the crew finished laughing, the Ewoks would be toast.

The only SW 'race' (for want of a better term) that I despise are the Ewoks.
When I first saw ROTJ on opening night, my first thought when the Ewoks appeared on the screen was 'Merchandising'

That initially also bothered me, but then I went through and thought about it. I realized that the trees on Endor must be stronger than ordinary trees on Earth, as they were able to hold up entire cities of Ewoks without apparent struggle, and appeared to be enormously tall (even higher than redwood trees). The trunks were probably both very dense and very strong. The AT-ST was also probably not designed to combat KE impacts on both sides of it at once, the way that a modern tank would have been. That means that its sides would probably not have been braced in such a manner as to be able to withstand such an impact. Instead, the AT-ST was probably designed to take a hit and just fall over to one side (or, lean in one direction with the blows, as seen when the catapult hit it). Since heavy weapons in SW would almost certainly go straight through its armor, anyway, there would be little reason to make something that size particularly tough against anything but small arms fire. This is also supported by the fact that the thing is a scout walker, and is designed to move quickly and without hinderance through bush and adverse terrain, so it must by necessity be fairly light for its size.

I think that most of the problem I had with that was caused by my initial impression that the thing was analogous to a medium tank. In fact, it is not. It is far more analogous to a heavy infantry group, or a scout vehicle, than a tank. While it is armored, combat is almost certainly only a secondary function of the AT-ST. Once you begin to think of AT-ST's as mechanized infantry, I don't think of the log scene as being a huge problem.

First off its a bad comparsion, Your comparing SCOUTs with Main Battle Tanks

Tell me is the M1A2 Abrams a Scout?

Compare that with say a Humvee or other SCOUT vechical, No need to rationlise it away simple military Tatics(IE don't load down Scouts with tons of Armor, they are not scouts anymore but tanks)

Wouldn't it be more the equivalent of a Bradley or a Soviet BMP than a normally unarmed and unarmored Humvee?

I can't imagine 2 logs taking out a Brad either.

Commander LeoRo wrote:Some of you guys are so pathetic. You are trying to come up with some sort of excuse to cover the Empire's pathetic attempt to defeat the Ewoks on the ground. If the Stormtroopers' armor could not defeat rocks and other primitive melee weapons how can you expect them to defeat any competent military? The only reason why they were able to defeat the rebels in any ground engagement was because they had superior numbers. Furthermore, if *one* AT-ST that fell into the Rebels hands was all that it took to win the battle, the Empire is absolutely screwed if they ever have to face a military force with even decent armor capabilities. The fact is that the Stormtroopers have never proven themselves to be the awesome soldiers that many of you would like to believe. The US Army vs. Vietcong/NVA is a poor example because the United States never lost a pitched battle with them. We lost the war due to other factors, but we always won the battles. That is hardly the record of the Stormtroopers. One of the reasons the US won all of those battles is because of some decent tactics and strategy. That is something the Empire sorely lacks...

Ok, Crackhead Troll, time for some geniune post dismemberment.*rybs hands, with an evil smirk * Ok, irst you claim they cannot defeat a comptent force? Answer: We kicked the Rebels around on the Tantive IV. Hmm, defeat decent armor capabilities? Answer: Ah, Force Commander evenStormtroopers can kill off shielded hover tanks. Not to mention Imperials always deploy some amount of armor. And they were only a few walkers on Endor and losing one, then it destroying the others did change the tide. And you claim "the Us always won the battles"is bullshit, the NVA may have taking a shitload of losses but Vietnam was attrition, and the US People couldn't withstand the losses while the NVA constantly churned out troops.
We aren't patheic you are...learn it, but appraently your brain must prevent you...

Wouldn't it be more the equivalent of a Bradley or a Soviet BMP than a normally unarmed and unarmored Humvee?

I can't imagine 2 logs taking out a Brad either.

Acutal it can, At least Bradly Side Armor is not speced that high when I ran a quick basic KE equation and looked up the fault tollerance on the Armor

Also keep in mind Bradly side armor does not have any side mounted guns does it?

And if you notice the side armor compressed indicating the Supports Failed First.(Also think of it this way, Its on-top of legs, Probably the force of a Humvee at 30 miles an hour would likley knock it over, Is it realy that important to put heavy armor on the side of somthing that can be so easly knocked over?) (Remeber when the other one triped up on the logs it exploded when it hit the ground indicating its pretty baddly armored) (Then agian as I said its a Scout Walker)