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An Analysis of Tarkin's Oversector

Posted: 2003-04-27 05:59am
by MKSheppard
Since Illuminatus hasn't replied recently over AIM, and because I've
checked and rechecked thrice this manuscript, here it is:

**********************

Illuminatus Primus and me recently over AIM agreed to come to a truce
in that WEG vs WOTC thread, and the topic of conversation drifted back
into SW, more specifically, when I showed him fan-made floor plans
for the Marauder Corvette.

I then mentioned Death Squadron, and from there on, it snowballed,
especially when I calculated the number of additional ships that
were available to Grand Moff Tarkin because of his prestige.

Using the general definition of 60 ships = 1 Squadron found
in the Imperial Sourcebook, I came up with a figure of 900
additional ships in the 15 squadrons that were attached
to Tarkin's own sector.

Primus then mentioned that Tarkin controlled multiple sectors,
and was the Grand Moff in charge of "Oversector Outer"

I then dug through my on-line HTMLized Imperial Sourcebook
for the definition of Oversectors:
Imperial Sourcebook wrote: As an Oversector is created only from problem worlds, they
should be given a greater quantity of forces than an ordinary
sector. I would think that three Sector Groups should be the average.
Using this, we came up with a rough number of ships Tarkin controlled
at the time of ANH:

2,400 ships, 24 ISDs: His own home sector
900 ships, 15 ISDs: The 15 additional Squadrons augmenting his home sector.
7,200 ships, 72 ISDs: The 3 sector groups that made up Oversector Outer.

10,500 ships total, of which 111 are ISDs, were under his command.

And then Primus mentioned that this was conservative - multiple
accounts said the Oversector Outer comprised a huge quantity of
space in the Outer Rim.

So we began to calculate the number of ships under Tarkins' command
again, this time assuming he actually controls the outer rim.
Essential Guide to Characters wrote: [Tarkin] was put in charge of Oversector Outer, which included almost all of the Outer Rim Territories.
We then attached a lower limit to the size of the Outer Rim by using the 8
sector size of the NJO-era Imperial Remnant, because the IR is described
as "inconsequential"

So our new calculations were:

2,400 ships; 24 ISDs: His own home sector
900 ships; 15 ISDs: The 15 additional Squadrons augmenting his home sector
7,200 ships; 72 ISDs: The 3 sector groups that made up Oversector Outer.
19,200 ships; 192 ISDs: The 8 Sector Groups assigned to the sectors making up the Outer Rim.

29,700 ships total, of which 303 are ISDs, commanded by GM Tarkin
*whistles*

But this wasn't enough for Illuminatus, he began to do some more
calculations.

Key Assumptions:

*The SW galaxy is roughly 120,000 LY across
*The Outer Rim consists of the outer 20,000 light years.
*There are 3,000 sector groups

Using these three assumptions, we calculated that the Outer Rim consisted
of at most, 31% of the galaxy.

We then began to assign sectors to various regions of the Galaxy, starting
with the Deep Core, which received 100 sectors. That left us with 2,900
sectors to assign.

We then made another assumption: That the inner 70% of the SW galaxy
had most of them, with the Outer Rim only having 10% of the remaining sectors, due to it's sparse population.

That calculation yielded 290 sectors for the Outer Rim.

We then assumed that 200+ of them were "most of the outer rim",
and thus part of Oversector Outer - and that 50% of them were
priority sectors -- since the place is enough of a fuss to need
becoming an Oversector.

It was at this point, the implications began to sink in, and I made
a plea not to continue further out of respect for Scooter - we didn't
want to be responsible for his committment to an Insane Asylum :-P

***********************************************
*Tarkin's Oversector Outer Calculations:*
*Mark Sheppard and Illuminatus Primus *
***********************************************

Really-Low End Calcs:

1 x Augmented Sector Group: 3300 combat ships; 39 ISDs
1 x Minimum Oversector Force: 7200 combat ships; 72 ISDs

Total: 10,500 combat ships, 111 ISDs

*********

Low-end Calcs:

8 x Regular Sector Groups: 19,200 combat ships; 192 ISDs
1 x Augmented Sector Group: 3300 combat ships; 39 ISDs
1 x Minimum Oversector Force: 7200 combat ships; 72 ISDs

Total: 29,700 combat ships; 303 ISDs

***********

Medium End Calcs:

100 Augmented Sector Groups: 330,000 combat ships; 3,900 ISDs
100 Non-Augmented Sector Groups: 240,000 combat ships; 2,400 ISDs
1 Minimum Oversector Force: 7,200 combat ships; 72 ISDs

Total: 577,200 combat ships; 6,372 ISDs

*************

High End Calculations:

31% of galaxy x 3000 sectors in galaxy = 930 sectors
make up the Outer Rim, and all of them Are Priority Sectors

930 x Augmented Sector Groups: 3,069,000 combat ships; 36,270 ISDs
1 x Minimum Oversector Force: 7,200 combat ships; 72 ISDs

Total: 3,076,200 combat ships; 36,342 ISDs

Posted: 2003-04-27 10:01pm
by Illuminatus Primus
No comments?

Infadel Rebel scum.

Posted: 2003-04-27 10:27pm
by phongn
Illuminatus Primus wrote:No comments?

Infadel Rebel scum.
::shoots Illuminatus Primus::

Looks good, though

Posted: 2003-04-27 10:40pm
by Illuminatus Primus
phongn wrote:
Illuminatus Primus wrote:No comments?

Infadel Rebel scum.
::shoots Illuminatus Primus::

*phongn shoots randomly at delusions of his mind: the Playboy bunnies couldn't help but confront him with total schitzophrenia*

Posted: 2003-04-27 10:47pm
by Ender
Since it appears that this is all based off official, you have a huge problem with your high end: Tarkin controls more ISDs then were built going by that. Or are you counting VSDs too?

Posted: 2003-04-27 10:49pm
by Illuminatus Primus
Our med and high-end calcs assume that Duchess' Imperial fleet calcs are reasonable and accurate.

Posted: 2003-04-28 12:11am
by Enforcer Talen
makes me want to go out and be a grand moff.

"yes, honey, those hundred star destroyers are our escourt to the ball."

Posted: 2003-04-28 01:21am
by Robert Treder
In case you're interested, in the first issue of the ANH manga (which should have official status on par with the ANH comic version, I reckon), the DS has a formation of at least 74 ISDs around it. The scene is implied to be coincident with Vader interrogating Princess Leia. In an earlier scene, the ISD armada around the DS is 14 ships visible.

It should be noted that the bridge towers of the seven destroyers whose bridges are visible in the formation are of the Avenger subtype, rather than that of the Devastator.
The ANH manga depicts even the Devastator herself as having an Avenger-like tower.

Posted: 2003-04-28 01:35am
by Kuja
The problem with the SW manga is that by the time the Death Star gets to Yavin, all those ISDs have mysteriously disappeared. :wink:

Posted: 2003-04-28 02:49am
by Robert Treder
Well, maybe they just didn't go into hyperspace with the DS.

Posted: 2003-04-28 03:00am
by RTN
It also implies that most of the galaxy is charted, with no new frontiers. That sucks.

Edited to correct stupidity on my behalf...

Posted: 2003-04-28 03:08am
by Robert Treder
RTN wrote:It also implies all of the galaxy in known space and charted. That sucks.
:?:

EDIT: As to why I question the comment:

a) The whole Galaxy is charted...

b) Known space is by definition charted...

Posted: 2003-04-28 04:49am
by Publius
In the Death Star Technical Companion, Moff Wilhuff Tarkin's draft of the communiqué to the Emperor outlining the Tarkin Doctrine – said to be cosmetically different from the version actually despatched to the Emperor – includes the following passage, outlining the proposed definition of Oversectors:
* To provide a swift, systematic response to rebellion as it appears and before it has time to entrench, I suggest the formation of Oversectors – sectors consisting of systems in which rebellion is newly born, or systems which maintain frequent contact with systems in chronic unrest. These Oversectors would be formed without regard to current sector boundaries. With the freedom to cross outdated political borders, Oversector forces would be able to respond to threats quickly, while they are still small and manageable.

Liquidating a dozen small threats is easier than rooting out one well-established center of defiance. As an oversector is created only across problem sectors, they must be given a greater quantity of forces than a normal sector. Three Sector Groups should suffice.
In Tarkin's estimation, an Oversector should be equipped with three Sector Groups.

According to the same source, Imperial adviser Ars Dangor responded, saying:
  • * You have complete authority and control of Oversector Outer, which includes most of the sectors considered the Outer Rim Territories (see star map which follows).

    * You are implement under extreme secrecy the design and construction of your ultimate tool of Fear, code-named the Death Star Project.

    * You have command of four Sector Groups to use to maintain the peace and to provide security for the Death Star Project.
Notice that in the introduction to Tarkin's personal data journal entry on the Tarkin Doctrine, he is identified as "Imperial Governor of the Outer Rim Territories", which is a region as defined by the Imperial Sourcebook:
Sectors are grouped together into larger territorial entities called regions. The Empire has countless regions, which can contain from as few as three to upwards of thousands of sectors. The establishment of a region depends not only upon galactic geography, but also upon wealth, influence, historic “sentimentalities," economic diversity and the level of direct control exerted by the Empire. Regions are governed by Grand Moffs (the title "regional governor" is commonly used). Some well known regions include the Outer Rim Territories (a vast expanse of space with many frontier colonies), the Galactic Core (historic "birthplace" of the Republic, containing Coruscant, the capital of the Empire, as well as several other vital systems), the Deep Core (a restricted area of space – essentially a giant "preserve" in the heart of the Empire), the Colonies, and the Inner Rim.
Grand Moff Tarkin's Oversector Outer, then, comprehends almost the entirety of the Outer Rim Territories, which, as a region, is not less than three and not more than "thousands" of Sectors. Ergo, Grand Moff Tarkin commands not less than three and not more than "thousands" of Sector Groups. In addition to whatever Sector Groups he commands as Grand Moff Governor of Oversector Outer, he also has four additional Sector Groups under his direct personal command. This is exclusive of the fifteen additional squadrons that Tarkin may have assigned to his Supreme Headquarters.

Thus, one may determine with absolute certainty that Tarkin's command comprehended not less than seven Sector Groups, plus as many as fifteen additional squadrons attached to his Supreme Headquarters. Therefore, according to the stated figures from the Imperial Sourcebook, Tarkin's command comprehended not less than 2,328 support ships, 11,200 warships, and 168 Star Destroyers, exclusive of his additional fifteen squadrons.

It should be added that a Star Destroyer battle group is classified as a battle squadron. If Tarkin's fifteen additional squadrons were battle squadrons, then that could represent an additional fifteen Star Destroyers under his direct personal command.

As a refinement to the original calculations, then, one may conclude that it is empirically not possible for Tarkin's command to comprehend fewer than 168 Star Destroyers and 11,200 other warships, exclusive of the fifteen additional squadrons, whose composition is unknown. This is the actual lower limit for the forces under his command, and the actual extent is potentially – and most probably – significantly greater than this.

Posted: 2003-04-28 09:18pm
by Illuminatus Primus
RTN wrote:It also implies that most of the galaxy is charted, with no new frontiers. That sucks.
Its important to actually watch SW.
AOTC Analysis wrote:First, we discovered that according to the librarian Jocasta Nu, they've mapped every star in the entire galaxy, so that any galactic star system missing from the Jedi Archives must not exist. This is hardly a surprise, given the age of galactic civilization and the speed of hyperdrive.
SW civilization has been advanced to start building the Coruscant massive cityscape 90,000 years before ANH. With relativistic probes--most of it should've been charted by the present. With hyperdrive? Esp--modern hyperdrives like the Falcon's and the Acclamator's? Able to go across the galaxy in a couple days?

Posted: 2003-04-28 11:19pm
by RTN
Illuminatus Primus wrote:
RTN wrote:It also implies that most of the galaxy is charted, with no new frontiers. That sucks.
Its important to actually watch SW.
What the hell does that mean? I've probably seen it more times than you have :roll: I made that comment in terms of the oversector including most of the outer rim territories.

Posted: 2003-04-28 11:28pm
by Illuminatus Primus
AOTC says all of the galaxy is explored and charted and numerous other sources say that nearly all the Outer Rim is the Oversector Outer.

Posted: 2003-04-28 11:31pm
by RTN
Illuminatus Primus wrote:AOTC says all of the galaxy is explored and charted and numerous other sources say that nearly all the Outer Rim is the Oversector Outer.
I'm not disagreeing with that. I'm just saying it sucks to have nothing new to explore -- which the case would be if the majority of the region was already governed by a given military force like the ships belonging to the oversector.

Posted: 2003-04-28 11:34pm
by Illuminatus Primus
There's the Unknown Regions, and to an extent, Wild Space.

Posted: 2003-04-28 11:34pm
by Sea Skimmer
Only three million ships? With the Empires resources there should be another four or five zeros on that.

Posted: 2003-04-28 11:36pm
by Illuminatus Primus
Sea Skimmer wrote:Only three million ships? With the Empires resources there should be another four or five zeros on that.
Precisely.

The high-end estimate is perfectly legit.