StarDestroyer.Net BBS

So... a TL (or is it HTL) is 200 GT, right?

So imagine...

1 TL hits a city, New York. It erupts in a massive nuclear explosion, hundreds of thousands of times more powerful than Hiroshima, the atmosphere is turned into an inferno, the whole of New York is vapourized, the river (or whatever waterform was that in NY) is turned to gas, the whole area is one fat mutherkucking crater!!!!

Isn't it a tad bit too powerful?

And a single X-Wing's guns can do a fat ass explosion similar to our heaviest modern explosive (except a nuke).

So in an atmospheric cap ship battle, every TL blast is a fat assed nuclear explosion complete with a mushroom cloud.



Quite odd....

Yeah, that's why you don't have "atmospheric cap ship battles".

Shroom Man 777 wrote:So... a TL (or is it HTL) is 200 GT, right?

Unless you wish to believe the - errr... stuff - that comes from Darkstar, guess so.

1 TL hits a city, New York. It erupts in a massive nuclear explosion, hundreds of thousands of times more powerful than Hiroshima, the atmosphere is turned into an inferno, the whole of New York is vapourized, the river (or whatever waterform was that in NY) is turned to gas, the whole area is one fat mutherkucking crater!!!!

Isn't it a tad bit too powerful?

Why? This is the type of weapons that allows for such a thorough destruction of a planet, that some +40 years on, it would still be a lot easier to terraform an entirely new planet rather than to try to reclaim the devastated planet.

This is known as a Base Delta Zero operation, and all it takes is three ISDs and a few hours.

And a single X-Wing's guns can do a fat ass explosion similar to our heaviest modern explosive (except a nuke).

Low kilotons per shot is the max for starfighters (AFAIK).

So in an atmospheric cap ship battle, every TL blast is a fat assed nuclear explosion complete with a mushroom cloud.

I don't really know enough about the effects of such high powered weapons being thrown around within atmosphere (besides that it is very unhealthy for those not in deep planet shelters), so I'll shut up and let others who do handle this.

Kid, before you're bashed by the more eruptive members of this board, the derived values are lower limits. Those are the values, you can't go any lower than that without calling stupidity into the equations.

If you're not happy with that, tough luck, even if NY gets a massive crater.

What exactly is "too" powerful?

1: Energy weapons are not the same as chemical explosives. A 200GT turbolaser shot would not have the same effect as an explosive rated at the same power. It would be more focused. Furthermore, there is no evidence contradicting these numbers, and official evidence in their support (Base Delta Zero in various EU sources, Slave Ship, and of course the Episode 2 ICS).

2: 200GT is the per shot power of the quad turbolasers on the Acclamator. It's actually 50GT per barrel.

Hmmm..... okay.

Well, other than "too powerful" I have no real arguement. But I never really wanted an arguement, it is just your gut tells you it's not right.

But of course I'd trust my brain over an organ used for digestion.

But since a small scale TL weapon is a few kilotons, wouldn't that mean that a single AT-AT blast on a small base would render it immidiately wasted by the kiloton explosion?

Just some questions, please don't flame, I just want to gain some knowledge seeing as I am feeble in sci-fi stuff compared to the wisdom of you guys.

Vympel wrote:What exactly is "too" powerful?

1: Energy weapons are not the same as chemical explosives. A 200GT turbolaser shot would not have the same effect as an explosive rated at the same power. It would be more focused. Furthermore, there is no evidence contradicting these numbers, and official evidence in their support (Base Delta Zero in various EU sources, Slave Ship, and of course the Episode 2 ICS).

2: 200GT is the per shot power of the quad turbolasers on the Acclamator. It's actually 50GT per barrel.

It's 200 gigatons per shot. Unless those guns are composite beams, then each barrel is a seperate shot.

Grand Admiral Thrawn wrote: It's 200 gigatons per shot. Unless those guns are composite beams, then each barrel is a seperate shot.

We know from Episode 1 that quad turbolasers (on TradeFed battleships) fire simultaneously, that's why I thought it was 50GT per barrel.

SW laser and blaster weapons don't radiate their energy on impact like a nuclear weapon does.

A 200 GT turbolaser shot striking New York City would vapourise and melt everything within a releatively small radius (basically, most if not the entire city). It doesn't do the same as a 200 GT hydrogen bomb and expand over a vast radius, vapourising the city and surrounding counties, and leaving the East Coast radioactive wasteland of molten glass and debris for several thousand years.

It only sounds "too big" for you because 200 giga-tonnes is a really big number.

Shroom Man 777 wrote:Hmmm..... okay.

Well, other than "too powerful" I have no real arguement. But I never really wanted an arguement, it is just your gut tells you it's not right.

But of course I'd trust my brain over an organ used for digestion.

But since a small scale TL weapon is a few kilotons, wouldn't that mean that a single AT-AT blast on a small base would render it immidiately wasted by the kiloton explosion?

Just some questions, please don't flame, I just want to gain some knowledge seeing as I am feeble in sci-fi stuff compared to the wisdom of you guys.

Why don't you read some older threads? AT-AT guns ARE multi-kiloton!

Grand Admiral Thrawn wrote:

Shroom Man 777 wrote:Hmmm..... okay.

Well, other than "too powerful" I have no real arguement. But I never really wanted an arguement, it is just your gut tells you it's not right.

But of course I'd trust my brain over an organ used for digestion.

But since a small scale TL weapon is a few kilotons, wouldn't that mean that a single AT-AT blast on a small base would render it immidiately wasted by the kiloton explosion?

Just some questions, please don't flame, I just want to gain some knowledge seeing as I am feeble in sci-fi stuff compared to the wisdom of you guys.

Why don't you read some older threads? AT-AT guns ARE multi-kiloton!

Sorry, but I was busy reading all the vs. arguements in the Other Sci-Fi section.

Shroom Man 777 wrote:But since a small scale TL weapon is a few kilotons, wouldn't that mean that a single AT-AT blast on a small base would render it immidiately wasted by the kiloton explosion?

Yeah, that's exactly what happened too. The Ion cannon on Hoth was no small thing, and it turned into a fine mist.

nightmare wrote:

Shroom Man 777 wrote:But since a small scale TL weapon is a few kilotons, wouldn't that mean that a single AT-AT blast on a small base would render it immidiately wasted by the kiloton explosion?

Yeah, that's exactly what happened too. The Ion cannon on Hoth was no small thing, and it turned into a fine mist.

Hummm, didn't they attacked only the generators and Echo Base????

nightmare wrote:Yeah, that's exactly what happened too. The Ion cannon on Hoth was no small thing, and it turned into a fine mist.

The Ion Cannon was scuttled, not destroyed.

Nah... they shot it with a walker.

I'm now a bit concerned about times when TLs have been used on planetary targets. In Dark Force Rising the Chimera fired on an underwater casino ship and had to do multiple hits to force it to surface. It didn't harm the planet's atmosphere, just boiled away alot of seawater.

In the NJO when the NR was holding off a YV invasion at Borealis, they used the heavy guns of the Lusankya to bombard the ground forces around the base with precision accuracy. They scorced the ground a half-kilometer away from the base and the only discomfort was a deafening noise. As I recall, it was full power.

Not sure what that means to this discussion, but by God I'm going to contribute it.

CaptainChewbacca wrote:Nah... they shot it with a walker.

Wrong. The Essential Guide to Weapons and Technology explicitly states that the crew set off the self-destruct before escaping.

Yeah, thinking back it was a different heavy gun that gets shot.

1.) Variable yields are your friend.

2.) A beam weapon is not a bomb.

3.) In some cases (usually the Empire's) that level of destructive capability is required and in fact known (IE, BDZ, Death Star, etc.)

4.) So the hell what if its "powerful"? Is there some reason thats not suppsoed to be true of Star Wars?

Vympel wrote:

Grand Admiral Thrawn wrote: It's 200 gigatons per shot. Unless those guns are composite beams, then each barrel is a seperate shot.

We know from Episode 1 that quad turbolasers (on TradeFed battleships) fire simultaneously, that's why I thought it was 50GT per barrel.

Its open to interpretation. I've heard that Saxton says 50 GT per barrel, but it says per "shot", so people can interpret it however they wish, I suppose. Either way, its still a helluva lot of energy

CaptainChewbacca wrote:I'm now a bit concerned about times when TLs have been used on planetary targets. In Dark Force Rising the Chimera fired on an underwater casino ship and had to do multiple hits to force it to surface. It didn't harm the planet's atmosphere, just boiled away alot of seawater.

CC, you're supposed to read the books, not eat them!

The Chimaera fired around the Coral Vanda to get it to surface. They didn't want to destroy it! Even these off-target hits caused microfractures in the Vanda's hull, making it surface.

In the NJO when the NR was holding off a YV invasion at Borealis, they used the heavy guns of the Lusankya to bombard the ground forces around the base with precision accuracy. They scorced the ground a half-kilometer away from the base and the only discomfort was a deafening noise. As I recall, it was full power.

They weren't using the heavy turbolasers.

CaptainChewbacca wrote:
I'm now a bit concerned about times when TLs have been used on planetary targets. In Dark Force Rising the Chimera fired on an underwater casino ship and had to do multiple hits to force it to surface. It didn't harm the planet's atmosphere, just boiled away alot of seawater.

So what, if they where using some low megaton range weapons or point defence mounts that's what would happen. A 50-megaton nuclear airburst didn't harm the Earths atmosphere. I don't see why shots from a kiloton or single digit megaton directed energy barrage should.

In the NJO when the NR was holding off a YV invasion at Borealis, they used the heavy guns of the Lusankya to bombard the ground forces around the base with precision accuracy. They scorced the ground a half-kilometer away from the base and the only discomfort was a deafening noise. As I recall, it was full power.

No actually, there was never any mention of heavy guns being use. It was clear however that only a select few batteries where firing. They might have been using the point defence mounts.

You don't seem to get that not all starship weapons are hundreds of gigatons.

IG-88E wrote:

nightmare wrote:Yeah, that's exactly what happened too. The Ion cannon on Hoth was no small thing, and it turned into a fine mist.

The Ion Cannon was scuttled, not destroyed.

*hits forehead in table* Oy, that's what too little sleep does to you. Of course it wasn't the ion cannon, where the hell did I get that from? If I say arty tower or shield generator, I hope you don't say against me.. But you never know, I'm still tired..

CaptainChewbacca wrote:Nah... they shot it with a walker.

I'm now a bit concerned about times when TLs have been used on planetary targets. In Dark Force Rising the Chimera fired on an underwater casino ship and had to do multiple hits to force it to surface. It didn't harm the planet's atmosphere, just boiled away alot of seawater.

In the NJO when the NR was holding off a YV invasion at Borealis, they used the heavy guns of the Lusankya to bombard the ground forces around the base with precision accuracy. They scorced the ground a half-kilometer away from the base and the only discomfort was a deafening noise. As I recall, it was full power.

Not sure what that means to this discussion, but by God I'm going to contribute it.

Use your brain you fucking idiot. Thrawn didn't want to blow apart the ship, so why the fuck would he use the biggest guns?

Similarly, the NR had troops close by. Whey the fuck would they want them to die?

Connor MacLeod wrote:

Vympel wrote:

Grand Admiral Thrawn wrote: It's 200 gigatons per shot. Unless those guns are composite beams, then each barrel is a seperate shot.

We know from Episode 1 that quad turbolasers (on TradeFed battleships) fire simultaneously, that's why I thought it was 50GT per barrel.

Its open to interpretation. I've heard that Saxton says 50 GT per barrel, but it says per "shot", so people can interpret it however they wish, I suppose. Either way, its still a helluva lot of energy

the support for 50 GT comes from the fact that whenever we see TLs fire, they fire off all barrels at once. http://www.stardestroyer.net/Empire/Tec ... olaser.jpg
http://www.starwars.com/databank/techno ... vie_bg.jpg

If anything, 50 GT is too low

An ISD mark 1 is suppossed to be able to preform a BDZ. A BDZ would need about 1E26 to biol the oveans, knock down the mountains, and melt the crust. Acccording to EGWT a TL fires every other second. If we assume that a BDZ takes 1 hour, then

1E26 / (12 * 1800) = 1.63E21 joules or 1.102 Teratons

I've been doing some work, and the 50GT is low for what can be derived, and based on the earlier descriptions of a BDZ, not the later ones that DS decries.